Please Stop Laughing at Us, and bullying as a political tactic

[carolinayellowdog]

This morning Diane Rehm's guest for the first hour was Jodee Blanco, author of two books about bullying. Here's her website's page on the new book:
http://www.jodeeblanco.com/book_2.htm
and her NPR appearance is here:
http://wamu.org/programs/dr/09/12/30.php#30999

This morning was the perfect time for me to hear this, as I'd been in considerable anguish about all the bullying rhetoric here at DU lately. It seems like the "shame on you for not supporting the president, you're nothing but an expendable, fringe, dirty fucking hippie" attitude we suffered from Republicans for eight years didn't end with Bush. Blanco, who suffered horrendous bullying for a large portion of her childhood, uses two phrases that resonated for me wrt recent DU bullies: "aggressive exclusion" and "elite tormentors" each of which is explained at her site. What we see here from the message discipline brigade is a repeat of the right-vs-left aggression that is all too familiar to us, only now it is from Democrats. Ponies, poutrage, Palin supporters, and on and on, the language and behavior are those of bullies: demeaning, dismissive, scornful. As one of Diane's callers commented, LGBT youth are far more likely to be targeted for bullying than others. Blanco replied that this does not contradict her thesis that bullies choose the most sensitive, empathetic, and precocious children for their targets. I suspect that LGBT DUers find ourselves disproportionately in the crosshairs of the party loyalists now for similar reasons. Aggressive exclusionary behavior by elite tormentors is nothing new for us.

[Dhalgren]

1. You are correct. Dead-on! K&R...

:applause:

[Deep13]

2. That's my experience as well.

As a socially inept, introverted, nonathletic kid, I was aggressively excluded and it was a few specific "alpha" kids who took it upon themselves to do it. Even though I'm not gay, those characteristics made me a target for all the gay-related harassment. I suppose it would have been worse if I really had been gay since I might have let them convince me that I somehow deserved it. In those days, it would not have occurred to me that homosexuality was normal for some people.

[DURHAM D]

3. Excellet post. Thank you. nt

[MinneapolisMatt]

4. !!

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[hedgehog]

5. I'm sorry you are getting this kind of flack. People say things in

chat rooms they would never say in person, and I think things said in chat rooms have a deeper and longer lasting effect.

[Betty Karlson]

6. Thank you so much for posting this.

This is really, really worthwhile.

[tblue]

7. I think there's a left-right continuum even here on DU.

It's awful. The name calling, the teasing, the sarcasm, the bullying. I'm sorry, sweetie. I don't like it either. It's one thing to disagree with someone; it's a whole other thing to marginalize and/or try to silence people. It doesn't work anyway.

[Goldstein1984]

8. Agreed

The attempts to invalidate arguments, combined with the use of unrecs to suppress arguments, is unworthy of people who profess democratic values.

Based on the rhetoric, it appears to be the distinction between Democrats and democrats.

[MNBrewer]

13. The unrec system IS a travesty.

It should go away. it's nothing more than a tool for suppression.

[Goldstein1984]

14. It says a lot about the people who abuse it, though

[sabrina 1]

9. The reason why the tactics you mention now coming from

so-called democrats, seems familiar is because it is Republican language adapted by th Republican wing of the Democratic Party. Commonly known as the DLC. They are made up of people who support war and Nafta and mostly Republican ideas. Some are former Republicans who had a few differences with party, but many are Reaganites at heart.

They generally despise anything they consider to be 'liberal' and work very hard to let the Right, whose approval they seem to seek so much, know that they should not ever be considered to be liberals.

They use the tactics the right used on liberals, because they admire those tactics. I remember seeing a long post by a supposed 'progressive blogger' admitting that he admired Karl Rove eg because 'he wins'. He also stated that he thought Democrats needed to be as 'tough' and hard on 'delusional liberals' who had their 'pet issues' like womens issues, as the right is. Because, his reasoning went, these 'pet issues' are the reason Dems can't win. He also wanted the world to know that 'Democrats' are not anti-war' they are as willing to kill brown people in foreign lands as any Republican. And using language such as you described in your OP, as far as he was concerned, ought to be used against Liberals because 'Liberals are bringing the party down'.

We all had a good laugh I have to say when we read it. Someone claiming to be a Democrat thinking that flinging mud on the internet as rightwingnuts do, is 'being tough' was pretty funny. What is most revealing about these DLCers is how they never take on the rightwingnuts, their targets are what they perceive to be 'liberals'.

The whole platform of the Republican wing of the Democratic Party is far closer, except for a few issues, to the rightwing platform than to the stated platform of the Democratic Party.

All I can say to you is don't let them get to you. Anyone who has to resort to rightwing tactics is not someone worthy of respect or even attention, unless you're bored and want to have fun with them.

What is most sad about the Republican wing of the Democratic Party is that no matter how much they kiss the feet of the right, the right despises them even more than they despise Liberals. They know they can get them to vote their way without any problem.

The Democratic Party is divided, the goal of these people is to rid it completely of 'liberals'. I think we should not allow them to turn this party into Republican lite, which is the goal. Maybe they need their own party? Because they are not fitting in very well in this one.

[Zenlitened]

21. Very well said, all the way through! - n/t

[Goldstein1984]

25. In my three short weeks on DU

I've come to conclusion that fits very well the scenario you describe.

I have to admit that I knew nothing about the DLC before reading references to in on DU. I'm not a party person, though I'm a Democratic voter because the Left part of the party tends to be going in the same direction I am, and the alternative is so bad.

Many of the arguments I see written on DU, especially in regards to war, are identical to what I hear from the Republicans I'm surrounded with at work. There also seems to be a complete lack of interest in any discussion regarding constitutional rights and corporate control of government on the part of these people.

The irony for me was being labeled a "Teabagger" in response to a couple of my posts advocating activism in support of an agenda that is far to the Left. Evidently, activism, which for my generation is intrinsically linked to democracy, is now anything that isn't supportive of the party platform or Democrats in office.

The end result of this is that my decision to leave the Democratic party ten years ago and pursue democratic ideals independently has been reinforced, as has my more recent conclusion that party system has become the problem. Whatever it's original intention, it's become a diversion to keep the people divided and bickering with each other while the real problem festers. The Left/Right division is more of the same, as the "Right" and "Left" elements within each party struggle with each other for control of the parties, rather than addressing the real problem of a disintegrating democracy.

[Warpy]

10. Blanco is 100% right.

I put one bully into the hospital so none of the others ever crossed the physical line again, but the verbal bullying was intense.

Here, I just throw them on ignore. DU bullies are easy.

[jonnyblitz]

11. great post!! too bad it's hidden in this forum where the people

it refers to can't see it.

[carolinayellowdog]

15. Thanks! That might be for the best.

Did not think of the lower visibility when posting in this forum, but maybe it's just as well. I always go right to the Greatest page, and y'all have put this thread there. The odds of my raising the consciousness of the bullies by posting this on GD aren't very good, and the odds of their lowering mine via retaliatory remarks are much higher.

[StarfarerBill]

12. Thanks for this. K&R

[Atticus]

16. Well said. Thanks. nt

[varelse]

17. K&R

I'm not especially fond of seeing Obama supporters labeled as "cheerleaders" and seeing people imply that they're "paid operatives" or "corporatist shills" etc either. I'd be happy if we could collectively back away from the practice of taking cheap shots at each other.

[carolinayellowdog]

18. Agreed, but "apologists" seems to be justified

not namecalling snark, but simple description

[varelse]

19. Yes, that describes observed behaviour

although I think we'd all be better off focusing on what is said rather than judging/labeling the person saying it. Especially since, for the most part anyway, we don't really get to know most other DU'ers all that well.

[Starry Messenger]

20. Good stuff.

I was bullied a lot as a child too. I actually had to leave my first high school because it finally got so bad. I'm not gay either but I feel so angry when I see other people bullied. There is another group of people here who claim THEY are bullied, even though they are getting everything they want. I have no idea how to explain that behavior at all.

[Smarmie Doofus]

22. Hmm.... I really can't agree.

It's a political discussion board. There is going to be a certain amount of rough and tumble associated with discourse on this site. I for one look forward to setting people straight... if you'll excuse the expression... particularly when they are engaged thusly:

>>>>.What we see here from the message discipline brigade is a repeat of the right-vs-left aggression that is all too familiar to us, only now it is from Democrats. Ponies, poutrage, Palin supporters, >>>>

It seems to me that most of the denizens of this particular forum are more than able to hold their own against that sort of thing.

Also, I tend to be skeptical in general of calls for "limitations" on what can and can't be said.... although I'm far from "anything goes." It seems to me that the more prohibitions ( and *inhibitions*; they're intimately related)) we create regarding what's acceptable discourse and what is not, the more we run the risk of creating a sanitized, insipid, boring milieu where nothing is ventured... communication-wise... and nothing is gained.

[carolinayellowdog]

28. Not in favor of limiting bullies, just recognizing their games

Mainly I just wanted to share the references and links about "aggressive exclusion" and "elite tormentors" because when Blanco explained this it was a major lightbulb moment about what I've been reading here lately. It's empowering to understand what you're up against.

[HillWilliam]

23. K&R

Political bullying seems to me has only gotten worse and worse. Lately, this adoption of the right-wing tactic of "yell louder until you win at all costs" appears to have been adopted by the left. It's also a reason I've not posted nearly as much as I had been -- it's wearying to see it. While I'll readily state that a lot of folks have gotten TS'd for starting it, the appearance is that quite a few people have gotten caught up and TS'd for standing up for themselves against it. The GLBT forums seem to be minefields; like some small country, we're periodically invaded by folks who love to tell us how we're "doing it all wrong" and if we want our rights, we need to be good queers, to sit down and STFU.

You are 100% correct: it's nothing new for us. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I withstood the onslaught of bullies all through my youth. I don't suffer fools lightly these days.

And :hi: neighbor. Good to see local folks posting. We all ought to get together over the long weekend and grab some lunch. Hursey's or Mayflower?

[VaYallaDawg]

24. K&R - excellent post!

Love your avatar too!

[carolinayellowdog]

29. we have the same last name-- might be kinfolks

Although my Carolina kin spell it differently than yours :)

[Jamastiene]

26. K&R

What the bullies do not realize is that their tactics only serve to turn people away from their message.

:hug: to you.

[readmoreoften]

27. K&R