"Smear the . . .

[mzteris]

well, you know the rest.

So the great hilarity that was/is the "punchbug debate" didn't really respond to my equating it to this "game".

Is this game "smear..." harmless? I mean, even if changed the name (which the neighborhood brats did - around me and my kids, but everyone knew what they were thinking...) - the whole point of the game was to "smear" the ball carrier into the dirt and see if you could make him (the little sissy) cry...

Just wondering what the GLBT community things of this "game". Am I off-base in forbidding my kids to not only not say the word, but to participate in an event designed to basically bully other kids?

[unpossibles]

1. I agree with you

fwiw, I think this game legitimizes violence against the GLBTQ community and anyone else who does not fit in, generally.

[mzteris]

4. exactly -

not to mention using being gay as an insult and equating "sissyness" and "gayness". They never met my ex!

[unpossibles]

5. right!?!

I know some pretty hard-ass "sissy boys" too!

I've often considered homophobia to be related to misogyny. The insults are generally cut from the same cloth, as is the disdain for any behavior which is not "manly" such as dancing, cooking, etc. I've never understood that one - guys who are basically afraid to dance (or cook or eat quiche) out of fear of looking less manly, and not even getting the inherent irony of that.

[mzteris]

6. Misogyny . . .

it was when I figured out that misogynists and racists were the same people that I really began my road to overcoming my "southern upbringing". I had been an early feminist...

And yes, it does all go back to that white male supremacist (heterosexual) patriarchy mindset that is so pervasive in the world. I blame religion for a lot of it. :(

My oldest son is planning to be a professional ballet dancer, and I think I've finally figured out why men have such a hard time with men doing "ballet". I mean, it is waaaaaaay more athletic that most sports, and the attire is no more revealing than football pants or wrestling togs or swim trunks...

No - what it is, is this. Traditionally - women have been the main characters. Men showcase them, support them, lift them. They're not "THE" Dancer. (that is changing, though.) I think it's just that because women get top billing (as opposed to being a "cheerleader for the man") that men have problems with this. Women aren't supposed to be more important! Men are always supposed to be THE most important thing, ever. Manly men, of course! and manly men don't play second fiddle to no little woman!!

I highly recommend dance classes for all boys. Not only is it some of the best training your body can get for any sport you ever want to do, it helps boys to see girls as equals. To treat them as PARTNERS and not some scantily clad "thing" just there for the males' enjoyment. It takes away a lot of the taboo mystery, too. My boys are very comfortable with girls and has always had females as FRIENDS as well as boys. They don't understand that whole "oooooooooo" thing most people have about boys and girls together.

Real men aren't afraid to be people...

[unpossibles]

7. great example

I remember guys making fun of me for taking Home Ec, and calling me all of the requisite names. My response: let's see, I'm in this room full of nice and attractive young men and women learning a skill that will not only serve me, but makes me more attractive to potential partners.

It never made sense to me how anyone could find a negative in there.

But you are spot on with the powerful women thing - that scares the hell out of a lot of ____-ist guys much like how Obama scares a lot of them too. The thing with the sexism however is that it's so pervasive it becomes invisible to many, including women sometimes.

[SacredCow]

2. I vaguely remember this game....

But I was a pretty athletic kid, so I don't recall being on the bad end of it. At the time, I don't think any of us knew the meaning or ramifications of "queer"- I certainly didn't (but would soon, when my Mom explained to me why my uncle Randy was living with Gary). But I don't think that's the case anymore- kids are much more likely to be savvy about sexuality quite early in life. Which, in turn, means the game is probably much more hateful than it was in the past.

Bottom line, the game is simply to launch a gang attack against one person- whether or not it's called something offensive, there's not much chance that a kid will gain much from it other than a sense of mob mentality. So, no- I don't think you're off base at all.

[sui generis]

3. kids need general rules - nuance in a rule is difficult to convey

Queer is perfectly acceptable among friends and neutral acquaintances as vernacular for gay.

Queer as a pejorative is not acceptable.

But kids don't WANT to be different if it has any negative connotations whatsoever, and kids have a lot less judgement available to navigate with, so kids should just avoid using the term altogether.

The best reason to avoid "Smear the Queer" is to avoid injury, but in contrast to everything I've said there is also an ironically important lesson in Smear the Queer, which is it's not any fun being the one everyone is out to get. It may teach them a little empathy.

Maybe the "heart" reason not to participate is the reverse is true too: it's not a good thing to be part of a crowd attacking a single person, for any reason whatsoever.

[donco6]

8. Must have been after my time.

Never heard of it. But I hate it just the same.

[Iggo]

9. I went to two elementary schools when I was a kid. We played that game at both.

At one school, it was called "Smear The Q****." At the other school, it was called "Kill The Guy With The Ball."

I didn't know what the Q-word meant til years later. My mother's parents were from England and Ireland and I was comfortable with a different definition of that word than I guess other kids in my neighborhood might have been.

And I gotta tell ya, I loved that game, even though I was by far the smallest kid in my grade (I didn't break 5 feet tall until 10th grade).

I don't remember the point being to make the ball carrier cry, although that did happen often. I do remember that the point was to tackle the ball carrier...HARD...until he gave up the ball.

I'm looking waaaaaaay back and through some pretty thick nostalgia glasses, though. So maybe the other kids' motives weren't as "noble" as mine. And maybe mine werent so "pure" either.

Just typing this out has made me look at it differently.

Now, with all that said, mzteris, you are definitely NOT off-base forbidding your kids from saying the word OR from playing a game whose point is to inflict punishment.

[mzteris]

10. thank you. . .

I was beginning to wonder if I was "too out there" or something.

[DarkTirade]

11. Yeah, I knew it by both names

and everyone I know who played it knew it long before they knew the connotations of the word 'queer.'

As far as the 'point' of the game... well that depends who you're playing with. When we played it was a matter of seeing how long you could stand. Toughness and agility. The object wasn't the pummeling, the object of the game was to keep the ball as long as possible. The pummeling was just to try and stop the other person from keeping it. But that's what I grew up with, and most of my neighbors weren't assholes. I can't say the same for everyone. :P