Bill Clinton: I Regret DADT

[WillParkinson]

Bill Clinton: I Regret DADT

Saying that he only reluctantly signed DADT into law when it became clear that Congress would impose an outright ban on gays in the military if he didn't, former President Bill Clinton told CBS News last night that he regretted his role in the creation of the bill. He also said that former Joint Chiefs Chairman Colin Powell was deceptive about how DADT would work. Transcript via the Advocate:

“Don't Ask, Don't Tell was only adopted when both Houses of Congress had voted by a huge veto-proof margin to legislate the absolute ban on gays in the military if I didn't do something else. So there's been a lot of rewriting history saying Bill Clinton just gave into that. That's just factually false. I didn't do anything until the votes were counted. Now, when Colin Powell sold me on Don't Ask, Don't Tell, here's what he said it would be: Gay service members would never get in trouble for going to gay bars, marching in gay rights parades as long as they weren't in uniform. That was what they were promised. That's a very different Don't Ask, Don't Tell than we got."

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/09/bill-clinton-i-regret-dadt.html

[vaberella]

1. We know you do. I know what you tried to do and what ended up happening.

I still blame you though...you just shouldn't have signed the bill.

[onehandle]

2. What would have happened if he hadn't signed it?

Not a chance that a more progressive solution would have been produced.

Hell, that isn't happening now.

[vaberella]

4. Then we'd have nothing in place period.

Then we'd be looking at bills to recognize the right of gay men and women to fight in the military.

[dsc]

20. that is totally false

First the bill Clinton signed passed with veto proof margins ( I have repeatedly linked that in threads you have posted in). Second, as Clinton clearly states, and you have shown no evidence to refute, if he hadn't acted and there was nothing (ie a veto was upheld) then the Congress would have passed an outright ban.

[vaberella]

21. They would have. Even sadder...poor Clinton.

So in essence he saved the LGBT community as much as he could in this situation.

[dsc]

24. yes he did

I think many Obama supporters here who didn't live at all during those years or weren't involved in those issues during those years have literally no idea just what gay servicemen and women faced back then. Gay servicemen were literally imprisioned for sodomy in the 1990's. Gay servicemen were hunted across Europe. We literally brought down a Dutch government chasing a gay soldier. I wish that Clinton had made sure Powell and the military honored the deal but even with them not honoring the deal things improved immensly for gay soldiers and sailors.

[David Zephyr]

31. This is exactly what went down. Anything else is folklore and revisionist history.

I know. I worked in Jerry Brown and then Bill Clinton's campaigns.

DADT was a compromise as dsc says that prevented an all out ban for gays and lesbians serving in the Armed Forces.

Incrementalism is sometimes what you take and then you take more later.

It's easy to sit back and criticize what went down then, but few here even know that a television sitcom "Soap" was practically pushed off of television for even touching this subject. The culture has changed and our GLBT sisters and brothers get the credit, not politicians.

We were classified as criminals in this nation. Jerry Brown decriminalized homosexuality in the 1970's. Few appreciate what a watershed that was for our community and how it changed the climate of fear that few here can even conceive existed.

I had just left the Circus Disco when the LAPD showed up and went inside beating the hell out of young gay people. I remember hearing the screams from the parking lot.

In the context of the times, DADT -- as awful as it seems and and awful as it is -- was a compromise that kept an all out ban.

dsc has this right. It may not be popular for him to post it, but it is how it happened.

[totodeinhere]

7. And he shouldn't have signed DOMA either. I suppose he is now saying that he regrets that too.

But at this point it's a little late for regrets.

[DURHAM D]

16. What are your credentials?

(1) Are you over 45?

(2) Are you gay?

(3) Were you active in the gay movement in the 80s and 90s?


If you can't answer "Yes" to all three of the above you don't know squat.

[totodeinhere]

23. So nobody under 45 knows squat? That's ageism and it's wrong.

And if I am under 45 then that precludes #3 because I would have been to young to be active. So I think you are being disingenuous.

I don't know how old you are either, but I'm sure that there have been human rights struggles that happened before your time too. Take the women's suffrage movement. But just because you aren't old enough to remember it actually happening, does that mean you know squat about it? Not necessarily. You could have written doctoral thesis on the subject and you could be an expert on it for all I know. Just because you didn't live through it doesn't mean you don't know about it.

I also object to the general tone of your comment. I should be able to express my opinion on this board without having to establish my credentials with anyone, except that to participate here I should be a Democrat, which I am.

[DURHAM D]

26. I am just tired of people who don't meet the above criteria

playing political frisbee with this issue for sport.

This is just a game to many because you have your own agenda. In recent years it has evolved around Obama support which apparently requires Clinton hating and buying the lies regarding Clinton of course.

Good luck going forward with defending Obama. So far there is nothing. Hopefully that will change.

Goodbye.

[totodeinhere]

29. Talk about having an agenda. What about your agenda? Clinton either signed DOMA or he didn't.

And he did. It has nothing to do with either supporting Obama who has not been stellar either on gay issues IMO or hating Clinton. So I don't know what lie you are talking about. Where have I lied?

[dsc]

30. you should at least know something of what you are talking about

and have shown no knowledge at all.

[totodeinhere]

32. How specifically have I shown no knowledge? Did I get it wrong?

Did Clinton actually not sign DOMA? Or may his evil twin signed it. Gosh, all I am doing is saying that he shouldn't have signed that homophobic legislation, and I am getting grief for saying that. I had thought that posters on this board supported GLBT rights, but may not after all. Are you suggesting that he was right in signing that legislation? And yes there were political considerations at the time, but never should politics trump basic civil rights as that legislation does.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Make a list. Mr. President, how do you feel about NAFTA?

The Telecommunications Act of 1997?

[vaberella]

5. Can't you just see his sad face already though?! n/t

[DCKit]

8. President Clinton did admit that NAFTA was a mistake a few months back.

He's one of the original DLC, corporate (D)s and would have passed some form of NAFTA, but I believe he would have put in more protections for our economy if he know how bad a deal it really was.

That's the difference between the (R)s and the (D)-corporate - (D)- corporates would prefer the corporate parasites didn't kill the host too quickly, the (R)s don't see any problem with running the economy into the ground for short-term profit.

[Laughing Mirror]

6. He resorted to DADT because he was too chicken to assume the role of Commander-in-Chief

and command Powell to allow gays and lesbians to serve. In that case, there would have been no DADT. There would have been no need to "resort" to anything.

In the eyes of the military, Clinton's failure to assume the mantle of Commander-in-Chief made him weak forever after. That is what he must regret the most.

[sarge43]

9. DADT wasn't good, but it was slightly better than what existed before

Before DADT a service member could be discharged for "homosexual tendencies" (whatever those were). Back when I did the paperwork on those discharges. The pre DADT regs were virulent. Ask me about the barracks/unit wide "witch hunts". If you knew someone who was under investigation, you were under investigation.

Further, even if DADT is file thirteened, the sodomy article remains in the UCMJ and DOD has a very broad definition of what constitutes sodomy. The CinC can not change or override the UCMJ. Only Congress can change it; don't hold them waiting for that to happen.

[DURHAM D]

14. Good points.

I remember well what was going on before DADT - most don't.

As I hear the constant call for "Repeal DADT" I always ask - what will take its place? Just getting rid of DADT doesn't take care of the problem - we will be back to the good old days.

I am always amazed at the number of people (those who hate Clinton) who stupidly think service members had it better before DADT. Some people just can't think for themselves.

[sarge43]

25. Unfortunately you may be right about repeal.

Them What Be In Charge need the Other, the different, to distract the troops.

If you were a gay or lesbian service member pre-DADT there were no good old days. Hell, it was dicey for straights. All it took was an accusation to put you on the OSI shit list. Try proving you're not gay or lesbian, not doing the deed, just that you have no "tendencies". Casanova and Empress Messalina couldn't pass that test.

Further, if you knew another troop was G/L, you had a problem. You turned them in or keep your mouth shut and preyed you were never questioned about them. "You knew sergeant? Well, maybe ...".

Yeah, run that unit cohesion thing by me again.

[DURHAM D]

10. Clinton spent a ton of political capital on gays serving openly in the military.

He was lied to by Powell. I remember when it passed. I attended a seminar in North Carolina for service members right after it passed. Everyone was really really excited as they understood the original intent. Soon, however, the military began enforcing it in a completely different manner.

I see the usual shit heads up stream who weren't around at the time and don't know a damn thing about Don't Ask Don't Tell but never miss an opportunity to trash Clinton because they think it makes Obama look better. pathetic

[joeybee12]

11. Yeah, I'm more pissed at Colonoscopy Powell about his traitorous lies than

I am about Clinton caving.

[DURHAM D]

13. Senator Nunn (D) should get an equal portion of hate.

Nunn, Boren and others were determined to show the hayseed from Arkansas that he didn't belong in D.C. - much less in the White House.

[sarge43]

17. Good point

Nunn was playing politics; Powell shouldn't have, at least not in public.

That's where I fault Clinton, naively believing he could take on the Five Sided Circus. Sir, never issue an order you can't enforce; it won't go well.

[DURHAM D]

18. Colin Powell was always a political animal.

Since Vietnam he has been a member of the Bush Family. Madeline Albright described him as being a "sponge". Meaning he has no core values as he just takes the position as dictated by his handlers. The Powell Doctrine just meant - I have all these toys but I won't use them unless a Bushie tells me to. That is just another way of saying - I don't have to listen to any civilians including my CIC unless a Bush tells me to.

But you are right - he was playing with service members lives. Clinton may have been naive but I always appreciated his willingness to try and the amount of political capital he spent on this issue.

OTOH - I have never forgiven him for his handling of the Lani Guinier nomination.

[sarge43]

27. I'm AF, prefer wind sock to sponge.

I'll give Billy Jeff a hand salute for being the first CinC to stand up to that bigorty.

[joeybee12]

19. Oh yeah...glad that miserable wreck is no longer in the Senate...n/t

[sarge43]

12. Yup. If you're going to blame anyone for DADT, hang it around Powell's neck.

He publicly disagreed with Clinton (a violation of good order and discipline BTW) and that gave the bigots their chance. Clinton should have done a Truman/MacArthur on his ass, but that probably would have made matters worse.

[DURHAM D]

15. Yep - that battle would have been the ONLY fight in D. C. for 8 years.

Well actually - Clinton would not have been re-elected if he went after the Bush Baby Powell. He would have been primaried by Nunn, or Boren, or Moynihan or Kennedy - all determined to show him the road back to Arkansas.

[mitchtv]

22. you said it

never miss an opportunity to trash Clinton because they think it makes Obama look better. they are both sadly lacking But Obama gave us that Easter Egg roll, I am reminded.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

28. The sad thing is that it doesn't matter that Clinton admitted wrongdoing...

The folks here on DU will continue to blame Obama for shit that his predecessors did!!!