Hah DADT has been killed....Obama and Dem hidden plan was brilliant.

[Evasporque]

So NOW....a gay person walks into the recruiter and says...that they are gay.

Now...there is no way in hell that they can turn around and reinstate DADT and then kick those people out...

In a way, by having Congress avoid the DADT battle it really threw a wrench in the GOP plans to control the legislative agenda....

THEY WANT to focus on issues that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH jobs or the economy.

So actually, the Republicans have been forced to block vital legislation and spending all their political capital
on legislation they NEVER WANTED ON THE FLOOR. They blocked everything to try and get the DOMA and DADT battle on the floor.

THAT IS WHY IT ISN'T and the Obama administration played cool on it. They outflanked the GOP clearly.

By keeping social issues out of the legislative agenda the Republicans have now lost the "framing" the debate battle.

We are now pushing the issues that sting the GOP the most. Bush tax cuts, healthcare, mortgage crisis, regulation....etc...

I say....EFFING BRILLIANT.

Nothing whips conservatives up more than bashing gay people. A long protracted battle in the house and senate over DOMA and DADT would play right into the hands of conservatives and in the end the centric Dems would side with the GOP and it would of been MORE disastrous for other legislation.

Letting the courts and the momentum of our own social and cultural change in attitude happen was key to burying the republicans and making them look...extreme. Which they most certainly do right now. Conservatives are hopping mad now that the courts have FIRMLY ESTABLISHED PRECEDENT in both marriage and employment. (military service is still a job).

[VMI Dem]

1. Huh?

[Evasporque]

2. keeping DOMA and DADT at arms length....

has forced the legislative agenda to steer clear of that the GOP wants.

DOMA and DADT need cultural and judical influence to make a legislative solution viable and possible.

That was the plan. So even though we all pissed and moaned that there was not enough ACTION by Dems and Obama on LGBT issues...(as promised)

There actually was....

Dan Choi walks in and says "I AM GAY! Sign ME UP!!!

and is.

[VMI Dem]

4. ...

:rofl:

[Evasporque]

10. I can deal with that.

nt

[Prism]

3. So brilliant, they want to appeal it so it's dealt with legislatively?

This administration is getting to be like God. No matter what happens, good or bad, it's President Obama's will and it's beautiful in its infinite mystery.

[Evasporque]

8. yup...

It will not ultimately effect the outcome and further reinforce the ruling.

Obama is not dumb...sure it is a bit of a gamble...but I am willing to take it.

and considering the the Republicans are not DRIVING this issue....it makes sense...

Try and consider that sometimes the unexpected path achieves even better results...

One thing we all know and have seen....

It is very difficult to go toe to toe with Republicans on the senate and house floor on progressive social issues.
for the simple reason that they have the majority of the public behind them when it LGBT equality issues.

In general the people still want homosexuality to be in the closet and the best way to do is to legislate discrimination.

Even though the we all recognize the equality is ultimately going to swing our way...if the GOP were be driving
LGBT issues they would of for sure locked it up tighter than a drum for decades.

[Prism]

9. LGBT lives are not the President's to gamble with

That's an awfully cavalier attitude to take.

You claim the administration doesn't want this done legislatively. Why then are they devoted to appealing it and currently having representatives plastering the media with the message it will be taken up legislatively in the lame duck session?

Are you saying they're lying?

[Evasporque]

11. what ever they are doing is working....

We are talking about politicians here...and many who are extremely clever...(Obama)

I would not put it past them to devise a very devious strategy to win...

Actually it would be refreshing for us to be devious and win for a change.

Instead of acquiescing losers....that we have been for the past decade.

[Prism]

12. "They" haven't done anything

Outside of defending the statute with ideas and language very denigrating to LGBT service men and women.

The one who has done the most here is Judge Phillips. She is the dragonslayer.

And no, the administration does not deserve credit for it. She did what they could not or would not do. She took down DADT, with no help from the administration whatsoever. In fact, she took it out in the face of the administration opposing her.

[Evasporque]

15. What is worse.....

Saying you are for some LGBT equality and doing nothing...

or saying you are against it and driving a legislative agenda to make sure it never happens?

If it is one thing we have seen causes little political fallout is if a politician changes their mind about LGBT rights to the positive.

[MNBrewer]

21. it depends on

whether the politician is a D or an R.

D = what's worse is "Saying you are for some LGBT equality and doing nothing"

R = Ho hum... par for the course

[Smashcut]

19. They haven't done anything and they deserve no credit for Lt. Choi's activism

I mean really, give me a small break here.

Sometimes a cigar really is just a frigging cigar.

[Evasporque]

38. This is not about Lt. Choi...the OP is about strategy...

I was looking for acknowledgement that maybe....Republicans wanted a protracted pre-election DADT legislative debate....because it focused attention away from the misery they put the Nation in with 8 Years of GW Bush.

Also because when...the Republicans steer the debate in both the legislature and public...WE LOSE.

I feel Obama's strategy to let DADT play out fully in the courts keeps the Republicans on task of dealing with economy and healthcare.

So yes I don't care for being used as political fodder for strategy....but in the end it will play out and the Republicans will lose.

[WhiteTara]

5. well, I don't know if it was intentional

but you are quite right that the judge stopped all discussion. I say great. And it is definitely in our favor because the questions do remain about what is vital instead of what is distracting.

[joe black]

7. As the judge works fearlessly with the Obama admin.

Yeah right.

[Evasporque]

40. ding ding ding! Yes....

That is the point...I was disappointed that they asked for a emergency stay but clearly....by doing so has removed the issue from the pre-election radar....something the GOP and Karl Rove are very upset about.

Am I making lemonade from lemons...? Maybe...but it tastes good right now....and ultimately DADT will be history.

In modern America politics it is not only winning on the issues...it is about making your opponents look extreme and you appearing mainstream

[pgodbold]

6. If this narrative makes you happy I say go for it. Makes no difference to me. I would just like

to know, before I die, how it feels to walk down the street and feel a part of the country I was born in.

[TlalocW]

13. Well, take off that bear suit and turn down your boom box

That might help.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

TlalocW

[meegbear]

14. Bears have every right blare boom boxes ...

and don't forget the second amendment "the right to bear arms", something I have and cherish!

[TlalocW]

16. I'm not saying they don't have the right

I'm saying they should exercise more restraint in when they choose to do so! :)

TlalocW

[meegbear]

17. LOL!

[pgodbold]

23. Think you too for smiles ... needed them.. sad day but as they say it gets better!

[pgodbold]

22. Thanks guys for the grin. The DADT thing has me feeling blue ..hugs

[Smashcut]

18. Stockholm Syndrome

This is kind of sad.

[ThomCat]

30. Yup. That is exactly what it seems to look like.

:(

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

24. Now, don't you feel silly today? n/t

[Iggo]

25. LOL...nice.

B-)

[MNBrewer]

26. But now the plan is even MORE hidden!

So it will be even MORE super effective in ending DADT. Don't you see?

:sarcasm:

[donco6]

27. Absolutely!

I've lost count on what dimension of chess this is anymore.

[MNBrewer]

32. I think it has something to do with quantum mechanics, or string theory.

Perhaps in a parallel universe parallel President Obama is ACTUALLY the fierce advocate. We got the milquetoast advocate here in this universe.

[laconicsax]

36. You're really playing up his advocacy.

"I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage." -President Advocate

[Evasporque]

34. yes and the clown makeup is causeing a rash....

and I tripped on giant shoes and fell down the stairs....happy?

There that is me...and some music...to laugh at...

knock yourself out.

http://soundcloud.com/evasporque

[donco6]

37. I salute your willingness to admit an error.

You're a far better person than most around here.

[marginlized]

28. Amazing how twisted the explanations are getting on this...

Walter Dellinger's OpEd at NYTimes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/opinion/21dellinger.html?hp

If only an election weren't right around the corner.

[Evasporque]

39. interesting....ty...nt

[marginlized]

29. And stranger still...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/21/doj-accused-of-hypocrisy-_n_771722.html

[Creideiki]

31. Did you miss the part where DADT was back?

The DOJ got an "emergency" stay because apparently someone will be badly hurt if LGB (not T, they're not covered, sadly) military members are happy in their off time and someone finds out.

[Evasporque]

33. yah....I saw that yesterday....bummer...so much for staying positive....

fuck it.

[Iggo]

41. Staying positive is one thing.

Declaring victory before halftime is another.

[QC]

35. This is some kind of performance art, right? n/t