Was this offensive? Did over I react?

[bluedawg12]

Seeing that gay study in the title of the thread for the world to see and for lurkers to see upset me- because that is how negatve stereotypes keep being perpetuated.

And worst yet, the bathroom lie came from a neonazi!




http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1501855/posts

Title: FR "Catholic" "Studies:" 41% Of Gays Have Sex In Public Restrooms!

More ridiculous "statistics" from phantom studies showcased mouth-frothing Freeper hatefest fun, here:
What's YOUR favorite phony statistic here? Remember: Gays are the new Blacks! Be a-scared and hate them lots, OK?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1501855/posts



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5054621

"Gay Bathroom Sex "is a White Supremacist LIE

[applegrove]

1. I agree it is upsetting. Try using humor to throw it back at them.

[K8-EEE]

2. I Posted The Original Link To The Freeper Article

...with the best intentions and you can believe that or not.

First: It was linked to a faux "Catholic" source and the way Catholics address this issue caused a major showdown with me and my life-long parish -- that I still in a way miss -- I think that we Liberal (true!) Catholics need to PRESS THE POINT and demand that the Church not condone homophobia (or war for that matter) or else we QUIT THE ENVELOPES.

I did this and they STILL call me every year asking why and I TELL THEM.

It's garbage, but it's what's being peddled to ingnorant people. Shine the light! Shine the light on it, laugh at it, and discredit it. Don't ignore it. Some people believe this shit!

I'm sorry if you were offended, again, it was not my intention. I in no way ENDORSED this point of view, just wanted to point out the propaganda they use, when people say "what is their problem?" this is what they are being fed. DEBUNK IT! LOUDLY!

[K8-EEE]

3. PS!!

My husband and I were just discussing -- that we got married in 1986 and of all our "couple" friends of that era, there are only three couples that are still together. Two of them are gay!! Everyone else is divorced. Including one super-fundie couple that had a zillion dollar wedding that they acted like, stop the planets from aligning, we're getting married. 2 YEARS! And our gay pals still together. One couple was kinda-married in Hawaii (don't think it's legal?) and one are just a forever couple.

[bluedawg12]

9. Hi K8-EEE

Well, you gave me a lot to think about.
Heh


It's that stinking libel that has been all over the internet- the one on the creeper board.

I think it's hateful psuedo science like that which gives an emotional gut reaction against gays.

I am going to try to go through some of the science bit by bit- as I have time from real life, a career, an 19 year long monogamous relationship, a ton of critter kids (pups, pussers) a home, a yard--and in my spare time LOL--try to review some of the real facts about gays and straights.

The one that particularly upset me was the suicide one- no freaking kidding people that are oppressed and forced to deny themselves internalize anger.

peace

[K8-EEE]

17. Hey Blue!

You gave me a lot to think about too!

Here is the stat I want to see -- how the elevaed suicide stats play out in regard to if they are loved and nurtured, as opposed to being raised in some Freeper hell hole and being told all your life that you are evil, worthless, and need to be "fixed." If you look at that "god hates fags" site -- well I would bet that there are a lot more suicides for people raised by those idiots. I thank God every day for my decent,loving, accepting parents who let me find my own way and didn't judge me even when they didn't understand/approve. They thought it was the end of the world that I lived with my husband before we married, because they thought I would get hurt but we have been married 19 years also! Isn't that a coincidence? Have a great weekend!

[applegrove]

20. That would be more intersting study. What is the psychological effect

of being born gay and living in an accepting family vs. a gay-hating one.

We need more study. Afterall the evil of suicide is evil as it gets. Oh - and to grow up and be accepted and nurtured for who you - no matter who you are - and not attacked for things you cannot change - is kinda of an offshoot secondary effect that celibate men in the catholic church should study too!:sarcasm:

[bluedawg12]

21. Hey K8!

You got it-the suicide rates of people who are psychologically oppressed may have to do with oppression and not sexual orientation.
I am going to work on this one next, I need to educate myself on this further.

I was just reading a little symposis on WebMD about why homosexuality was removed from the list of psychiatric illness. It turns out the shrinks had to confess that gays who sought help from mental help professionals were not there because they were gay but for other reasons. Like what? Well, I can think of many things that cross all spectrum of society, ex: endogenous depression, or manic depression, or anything else in common to humans.

The radicalright claims it was due to "gay" or eeek! libuhral pressure...as if...the truth wasn't there anyway.

You know what I am learning at DU is that there are no easy answers- and we all have to search for them ourselves unlike freepercreepers who get the memo and then regurgitate, liberals are not afraid to agree to disagree.

This is an exciting discussion and has caused me to think, to read, to discuss here with folks and even at home. Not bad for a talking dog.

Peace and have a great weekend with your hubby-

we have yard work and fall type things to do around the house- lawn mowing and feeding and stuff...life is good.

bluedogger

[applegrove]

11. I took it as Freeper/Catholic bullshit and posted my own personal

take on what the stats really meant - which was that men like sex - and tried to turn the issue into one of testosterone.

We all handle their nuttiness is various ways. Misunderstanding is easy. I cannot take the titles of some threads and get upset myself at times. This time I went with the flow and suggested more "study".

I was offended but not enough to not use black humour to try and turn the worm.

[bluedawg12]

13. This group called Catholic Apologists

that I mentioned, allegedly wrote the so called scientific paper.

Reminiscent of Nazi's who co-opted physicians this group actually has a physician spouting rabidly anti-gay vile and calling it "medical fact." Again, asymmetrical propaganda. STD's are present in both groups, gay and straight.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/g/l/glm7/m160.htm
Medical Downside of Homosexual Behavior
A Political Agenda Is Trumping Science, Says Rick Fitzgibbons
...........

Imagine how much power the "church" has. Imagine proselytizing politics from the pulpit as was done here re:Kerry and abortion and gay marriage.

I wish I could ignore them, but I feel there needs to be a response to such dangerous lies.

.............

As an FYI here is an interesting article on apologists written by an Evangelical- as they are at battle with the church.
http://members.aol.com/jasonte2/rccargue.htm

[applegrove]

19. Great. They should act like really big boys and put that data - with some

other data - into the hands of the economics department at Standford. If they are grown ups - and not just "melding the facts to match the outcome they desire" they should open up the big catholic books - and let some scientists at it.

[bluedawg12]

22. Apple- that paper and much of their apologist research is so sloppy

that no peer reviewed professional journal would accept their so called literature review. These papers are all unpublished hack jobs.

Heh, yea, I am sure that the good people of Stanford could rip 'em a new @ssh*le. My cats have laughed at those articles they are so lame.

They do harken back to Nazi propaganda and the poison they spouted about eugenics. The RCC who has again been in the press for the botched job of the LA Bishop in protecting and actually living with child sexual predators is astounding. me thinks the black robes doth protest too much.

[applegrove]

25. Well religious elites put pressure on all of us - time to scream back -

"where is the regression analysis?"

[bluedawg12]

26. My analysis- the right wing is regressive

and that is with in a 100% confidence limit! heh heh

We do need intellectuals to come out and speak/write against what the RW think tanks are doing- which includes manipulating public sentiment about religion and societal norms.

[Kurovski]

4. If it had said "41% of married suburban men have gay sex in

train station bathrooms before heading home to the wife & kiddies", I might believe it.

I'm convinced that Chicago originally removed the Metra Randolph Station restrooms because of all the furtive commuter activity.

When I had to use the facilities, I ended up using the ones in the Cultural Center above ground to avoid walking into a urinal-lined version of Fellini's Satyricon with none of the charm and ten times the depravity.

[McKenzie]

5. now let me think....

in the hay barn, in the car (lots of times), down an alley, in a sailing dinghy, in someone else's house whilst babysitting (Hurry up and go to bed you little monsters!) and somewhere I won't mention because I'd catch hell if I did.

But that's all ok, no doubt, because it was hetero stuff. Bet it wouldn't be seen in quite the same light if I was gay.

[Lenore]

6. Catch hell, eh?

LOL the first thing I thought was "a Church eh?"

Don't even ask how or why I would think that, I don't want to catch hell either ;)

[kstewart33]

7. I am so tired of the Catholic establishment bashing gays

Their strategy for the pedophile priest problem is to say that gays did it. What a joke.

[bluedawg12]

24. kstewart33- this was a way to smear gays and blame shifting

compounded with some serious lies conflating pedophelia and gays.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/14/1687_51642.htm
"saying that all homosexuals are pedophiles, or that all pedophiles are homosexual, is like comparing apples to rat poison." - WebMD

Pretty funny for WebMd. No? I like it.

[William769]

8. Get over it Mary

I know of many men that to this day still have bathroom sex. It's part of the gay mystic.

[bertha katzenengel]

10. News flash: Gay people do not corner the market on exhibitionism,

fetishism, promiscuity, etc., etc. This is a big. Fat. DUH.

[bluedawg12]

12. This so called study has been used against gays

I first ran into the lies years ago, during the Monica mess, when I went to talk on non partisan news oriented forums.

Out of no where someone would start to spout statistics about gay lifestyle and the gay agenda in the most derogatory manner.

Now, I know where these talking points came form. This piece of crap "paper" and it's pseudo science has been passed around to grass roots moderates in churches and local conserva-pig groups.

It seems sound because of the half truths, old articles, and quasi scientific language. And because it takes time to run down their train of thought and references.

But, true to freeper behavior, which dictates that they memorize propaganda and fart it out their mouths, rather than think for themselves, this crap can be debunked. It is old, tired, rehashed, and now that I know the source of the lies and half truths I can at least work towards identifying the truths and educating myself and defending the truth.

Their tactic is to dehumanize gays as the Nazi's dehumanized Jews.
That allows them to take outrageous political positions and to spout vile, bile and vitriol.

They don't refer to gays as "gay", it's always sodomites.
How visual and biblical of the radicalright copulites.

They only focus on gay sexual behavior never ever talking about their own problems: teenage pregnancy, high divorce rates, high infidelity rates, high teen suicide rates, drug abuse, marital infidelity, and STD rates that are high.


I am starting to think of it as: asymmetrical propaganda.

They need to be answered and I think the first step is understanding what is true, what is a lie, what is a source of pride in our community vs. what is not, and balancing their asymmetrical attack on gays by understanding that both gays and straights engage in many of the same behaviors.

I am unhappy about the gay bashing libel that has been promoted for years, I am willing to work towards finding the truth, and I am open to any suggestions on how to do it well and effectively.

I do think that on the internet, in bi-partisan forums, and whenever we come across theocons- these lies can not be ignored, and I want to have my own talking points ready in rebuttal.

I welcome feed back and comments.

[Democrats_win]

14. I agree, "dehumanizing." Total lack of empathy. Throwing it in our faces

like they always complain gays "throw" our gayness in their faces. At work, people know I'm gay, (how could they not?) but I never speak of it.

I ended a friendship with a Democrat over this specific issue (gays hanging out around bathrooms). It wasn't like he said it and I blew up; he said it several times and I let him know that I didn't appreciate it. The last time he said it I walked away and I've never talked to him again.

I'm not saying it's not partially true. I've read novels and seen movies where the gay characters did hang out at public restrooms. It's a stereotype I consider an insult.

In the movie, "Get Real," a crying gay teen asks his parents, "Where else are we supposed to go?" In a way, the gays-hanging-out-at-public-restrooms is some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy for those with a homophobic agenda. If homosexuality was completely accepted, extreme measures would not be required to find other gays.

[bluedawg12]

15. if we started to look at all sexual behavior

and talk about it equally- which they won't--then we could talk about Kinsey's report that

"69% of white males have had at least one experience with a prostitute"

and then harp about condemning evil copulites for their deviant behavior since, prostitution it could be argued, harms both parties and leads to STD's.

The toilet thing is so nasty because it evokes all sorts of straight fears:

gays having public sex
straight men being accosted
toilets are a flithy place

Now, my point was not that people don't have sex in strange places- but the article cited nothing more than a neo-nazi quack who wrote this crap and I did not find that it was ever published in any journal. And half truths placed in a frame work of science can be very dangerous.


You are right about this promoting a negative gay male stereotype-

[Democrats_win]

18. I'm with you on this.

[bluedawg12]

23. Thanks Dem_win! This is a great discussion and thoughtful

and I am learning much.
It is empowering to be among friends who speak truth.

[bluedawg12]

16. Norwegian Copulites Have Sex in Public Places!

Known for their wild and free sexual ways, heterosexual Norwegians, admit to alarmingly high rates of sex in public places!!!

Cinemas, fitting rooms, and the like. One could only wonder what, "and the like means to those pervy Danes!"

Something is indeed rotten in Denmark.:sarcasm:

Canadians by contrast keep their, "goody two shoes" image intact.

At the bottom of the list was France. Only 13 percent of the French
surveyed said they had had sex in public places -- even fewer than the15 percent of Canadians and 21 percent of Americans.



http://english.pravda.ru/fun/2002/01/14/25515.html

Sex in public places? Norway comes first

If you believe what on-line polls tell you, then it will be interesting for you to know that the Harlequin Romance portal has recently carried out an on-line poll about the sexual preferences. According to the results of the poll, 66% of the Norwegian people have had sex in public places: in cinemas, fitting-rooms, and the like. People from twenty countries participated in the poll. Canada turned out to be the "purest" country, since there were only 15% of the people who confessed they “did it” somewhere outside. The poll also had information about other national sexual habits. For example, male Danes do not think it is a bad thing to grab their girls' bums in public places. However, the Japanese are totally against this practic. There were only 16% of the Japanese who said they had had car sex, while the Americans love to doing it in cars: 80%. Twenty-eight percent of Australians said they like to make love in the movies.

[cwydro]

27. I'm gonna go with

offensive...:puke:

[bluedawg12]

28. Casting gays in a terrible light in order to evoke a gut reaction

from moderate Americans is a sleazy tactic that has to see the light of day.

I used to wonder why straight America had such a problem with gay issues of fairness- now I understand they have been brainwashed in the same way Nazi's brainwashed people into over looking Krystal nacht, etc.

Thanks cwydro, I agree that the paper in question was nauseating.

[kevinbgoode]

29. One does wonder why the Catholics haven't bothered

to study where their clergy were practicing pedophilia, particularly since they seem to have kept enough tabs on the issue for over 50 years to cover it up rather handily.