Phelps poster protesting Judy Shepard mentions explosive devices

[PageOneQ]

Phelps poster protesting Judy Shepard mentions explosive devices

Westboro Baptist Church, the rabidly homophobic group run by Fred Phelps has targeted a speech by Judy Shepard, mother of the late Matthew Shepard, as it's next target of protests. The speech, at Montana's Carroll College, is scheduled for this Tuesday evening.

A flyer distributed by the church (below), the church claims that Judy Shepard is "avaricious," speaking out against hate crimes in an effort to accumulate wealth. The same flyer, posted on the Westboro Baptist Church website, connects the event to "Improvised Explosive Devices, leaving some to wonder if the Church intends to use such devices at the speech.

FLYER POSTED HERE:
Phelps poster protesting Judy Shepard mentions explosive devices

[atommom]

1. Homeland Security, where aaaaaaaaaaare you?

[McKenzie]

2. damn! They'd be arrested for that sort of language in the UK

I cannot believe what I have just read on that flyer. Those people are nuckin futz.

What a bunch of sick fucks they must be to incite hatred like that.

[atommom]

3. Oh, and what's with this?

"Because of threats made by the church, the Montana Human rights network has been denied the right to have an educational table outside of the event."

WHY are Phelps and his "church" calling the shots here?

[MuseRider]

4. My response as I posted it

on your LBN thread.

That is a stupid assumption.



They have been carrying those IED signs for a long time now, months. These people may be nuts and disgusting but they have never to my knowledge ever gone beyond threatening with a sign. Phelps, by all accounts is violent only to his family.

Ignore them. That is the worst thing that could ever happen to them.

[atommom]

5. It's much like the "Thank God for 9/11" signs they used to carry

all the time ... it's clearly intended for shock value. I would love to see them face some consequences for their hate speech, but I've nearly lost hope.

Even though I don't think they're threatening the use of IEDs, I've seen others face scrutiny from DHS for less.

[MuseRider]

6. I have never figured out

why something can't be done about them. Business people here run scared from them, local politicians often run scared as well even though they still end up on their signs. The fact that they are all lawyers should not carry any water at this late date. They have been using my community for years and years to promote their hate. Even though I often read that they started their anti gay campaign 10 years ago it actually has been going on much longer than that. When my children (21 and almost 20) were very small I had to laugh when they asked me why the guys on their signs were playing leap frog.

I would love to see them stopped but I am unclear why it seems so impossible. Free speech is one thing, hateful messaging against a certain group of people is another thing entirely at least to me. I am certain they are very careful how they message.

[atommom]

8. I have never understood that either. What gives them so much power?

I'm not looking forward to seeing them again (though I know I will). Now that my oldest can read, I'll have some 'splainin' to do. :P

[kweerwolf]

10. It's my understanding that the "IED" reference Phelps tosses around ...

is to an incident that happened at his "compound" several years ago in which a couple of college kids planted or tossed some sort of small explosive. As I recall it did little damage, but of course Phelps claims that it's all part of a conspiracy to silence him ... blah, blah, blah ... yada, yada, yada.

He started referring to it as an "IED" when the media started reporting on IEDs being used in Iraq.

[MuseRider]

11. Hmmmm

that did happen. There was no damage I don't think but I have forgotten.

***RUMOR*** that there were a couple of High School kids recently expelled for skipping school and nailing two or three of the Phelps group with air guns. Apparently they were pretty good shots. This is rumor but it came from a source that I trust who got it from a source that he trusts. Who knows? It certainly did not make the paper here but then they rarely make the paper here anymore.

It just gives him an excuse to act persecuted, like anyone would ever really believe that he was the one that they should feel sorry for.

[kweerwolf]

12. Here's the first reference I could find to Phelps and IEDs ...

It comes from one of Freddie's infamous faxes and was posted on Pam's House Blend blog on Sept. 24, 2005 under the headline "Fred Phelps weighs in on Rita. (The original can be found in the September 2005 archives at http://www.pamspaulding.com/weblog /)

In the night hours of August 19-20, 1995, several fag students at Topeka's Washburn Univ. actually set off an IED at our church - and the federal government did nothing. And, the state court sentenced the ring leader to 16 days - not years!

Last week in the night hours some fine Americans again vandalized our church and did thousands in damages in an attempted aggravated burglary- the latest in a long line of hundreds of unsolved, uninvestigated, unpunished, violent crimes against us.

So apparently Freddie isn't trying to blow other things up so much as he's worried about someone blowing up his sorry ass.

Poor Fred (yawn!)
:boring:

[MuseRider]

13. There is a large grouping

of articles in my paper going back quite a ways on this group. I looked briefly and did not find it but I will try to look later for something. If you, or anyone else, is interested the website is http://cjonline.com/ On the left scroll over News/Weather and click on In Depth. It is down the page a ways but there are numerous little Fred goodies there.

[dickthegrouch]

7. Send an actual flier to the local FBI and ATF offices

with a complaint.

One of them will almost certainly open an investigation.

[kweerwolf]

9. Here's a link to a related story ...

The Montana Human Rights Network will not be allowed to set up a table at a Carroll College lecture next week out of fears that it might prompt a confrontation on issues surrounding gays and lesbians.

The featured speaker at Tuesday’s lecture, Judy Shepard, is the mother of Matthew Shepard. He was a gay 21-year-old who was murdered in Wyoming in 1998 because of his sexual orientation. Since then, his mother has testified before Congress and given scores of speeches on the prevention of hate crimes.

State Rep. Christine Kaufmann, co-director of the Human Rights Network, said they wanted to set up a table with brochures at the event because she feels the college is “dancing around” the fact that Matthew Shepard was murdered because he was gay.

“We thought that it was important, since they were not willing to say he was gay, that there should be something about gay and lesbian equality there,” said Kaufmann. “It’s also important for people in the community to support the organizations that work to carry forth the kind of climate that promotes tolerance.”

http://www.helenair.com/articles/2005/10/15/helena_top/a01101505_01.txt

[kevinbgoode]

14. Shepard is scheduled to be in my city the next night

speaking on the same sort of topic, and yes, the WBC people are planning to be here as well. I heard they had distributed a flyer here in Southern Illinois, but I didn't see it - I would expect it will be quite similar to this one.

By the way - if any of you are in the area, she is going to be speaking at the Southern Illinois University Ballroom at 7:00 p.m., I believe...Wednesday, Oct. 19. And it is a free event...

Carbondale is about two hours drive from St. Louis or Evansville, IN four from Memphis and maybe 3 1/2 from Nashville, TN.

[TaleWgnDg]

15. Hhmmmmm, Carroll College is a private Roman Catholic college . . .

.



Hhmmmmm, Carroll College is a private Roman Catholic college . . . thus it can discriminate . . . e.g., as in not allowing Planned Parenthood to do A, B, C, or D on its campus due to Carroll College religious stance against abortion and contraceptives.

As for first giving permission to, and then removing permission from, Human Rights Network having "a table with brochures at the (speaking) event" of murdered 21-y.o. gay Matthew Shepard's mother, it depends upon several legal factors including whether Montana, in law, protects homosexuals in such circumstances and/or is this contractual law? Perhaps the Montana chapter of the ACLU should be involved. That is, if Human Rights Network and State Rep. Christine Kaufmann, co-director of Human Rights Network, want to involve Carroll College in protracted and expensive litigation. A weighing of the costs and benefits is in order. There are many unknown variables including the politics of Representative Kaufman. And, one cannot determine from newspaper articles all the relevant facts and circumstances thus the legal ramifications!

Finally, as for those hate-filled and litigious idiots of the so-called "Westboro Baptist Church" (who seemedly incorporated as such to evade taxes and as a litigation loophole), it seems apparent that their flyer and its vitriol is w/i the bounds of legality if it does not incite injury to those targeted or contains no defamation of character as Phelps couches in "religious tenet" opinions.

Perhaps DUers want to notify Morris Dees at the Southern Poverty Law Center who has quite a large file on Phelps and his kids aka "Westboro Baptist Church." SPLC's contact webpage is http://www.splcenter.org/legal/contact.jsp

As an added note, this is not the first time that Phelps and his adult children (masquerading as a religious institution) have targeted Shepard's mother.

_________________________

edited to add: I hate to use your bandwidth, PageOneQ, but I did try to find this flyer on Phelps' website and came up w/ zero. Cut me off if you want, no hard feelings.
.

[MuseRider]

16. I want to apologize

to anyone who saw the LBN thread on the same topic and thought that I was defending Fred.

It was not my intention, I wish they would arrest him and his entire group and throw away the key, but somehow my stating that I thought this was blown out of proportion seemed to some that I was defending Fred. If anyone thought that I am sorry. I just have the misfortune I guess to live in the same city and so I know what he is up to, sometimes before it makes any press and I did think and still do that this was unintentionally causing a larger freak out than needed. I do understand the need to watch and beware and protect people. Anyway, if I offended anyone over this I am terribly sorry, I did not mean to do that.

[kweerwolf]

17. I don't think you owe anyone an apology, MuseRider.

If anything, you were the voice of reason in the discussion. Unfortunately, an irresponsible web site misrepresented the story - either jumping to conclusions definitely not in evidence or intentionally attempting to stir up controversy - and the effect of that misrepresentation was predictable. Alas, the ratio of "gullible sheep" seems to remain constant regardless of whether you're talking about the straight and LGBT populations.

BTW, just like in the kids' game of "Gossip," the story has spread and reached new levels of ridiculousness. 365gay.com had a story this morning headlined: Report: Matthew Shepard's Mom Target Of Bomb Threat

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/10/101605shepard.htm

[MuseRider]

18. Thank you.

I have felt very odd about that entire conversation because I could not see how what I was saying could be percieved as being supportive of Fred Phelps. It is such an emotional issue and I probably should have just stayed out of it.

Maybe because of his mixing of issues he will end up getting himself busted finally. I will be the first to send up a deafening cheer!

Thanks again.

[kweerwolf]

19. I think there are a lot of LGBT folks who have never dealt with Phelps ...

... and now that he is taking his roadshow of inbred freaks around the country a lot of people are getting their first up-close look at him. Their first response is anger ... and that's understandable because my first response to him years ago was wanting to deck the s.o.b. and do a tap dance on his withered testicles.

Maybe in the long run all the "drama" stirred up about the IEDs will do some good. Perhaps if the FBI pays him a visit it will tone down his rhetoric (though I'm not holding my breath for a kinder, gentler Fred Phelps).

[MuseRider]

20. Good idea

not to hold your breath. Even ignoring him will not make him go away, he will always be there but I have a tiny little hope that his kids will feel free to stop all of this after he is gone. No way to tell though, for now it looks like they will continue. We will have to wait and see.

I do understand the anger and had hoped to add a little experience into the mix and I see that you did as well.

Wouldn't it be loverly if his IED signs nailed him? IMO it would be good to be rid of him but sad that IED's are what it took.

[kevinbgoode]

21. I agree. . .this story was sensationalized...

I had to pull the story from the Helena, Montana newspaper just to make sure this was toned down. I felt it was irresponsible reporting by 365gay.com. . .and I forwarded their story to my local newspaper anyway, especially since Shepard and the Phelps' clan are scheduled to be here speaking Wednesday.

[leeroysphitz]

22. Phelps. Evil.

[dickthegrouch]

23. In Britain you can be arrested for Behaviour *likely*

to cause a breach of the peace.

Is there any similar statute in any of the places Phelps wants to demonstrate.

Of course, actually causing a breach of the peace is even worse. It's the cop's call as to who gets arrested, the Phelp's-like instigator, or the actual perpetrator, so it is a bit of a crap-shoot, but it only takes a few eye witnesses to say that the phelps behaviour was what caused the riot and the cops usually arrest the correct party.

[kweerwolf]

24. That wouldn't be likely in the U.S.

Americans have a perverse attachment to free speech, so all sorts of speech is considered "protected" under the Constitution. There are, of course, exceptions to that, the most famous being "you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater" type of argument.

While I'm not a Constitutional scholar (and I'm racking my brain trying to remember my mass communications law class years ago), speech is protected unless it can be shown to present "a clear and present danger." Thus, yelling "fire" in a theater could be said to present a clear and present danger because people could be injured or killed in a panicked stampede for the exits.

Political speech is harder to prosecute because the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment has been used to defend even the most unpopular stands ... for example, the Ku Klux Klan and other militant or radical groups.

Call it a strange quirk of the American zeitgeist, but we tend to error on the side of more freedom rather than less because the nation's founders had come from Europe where their views had been unpopular; thus, one of the founding principles of the U.S. was the freedom for all men (and at the time they specifically meant "men") to speak their minds without fear of censorship.

I'd be curious to see what our founding fathers would say today if they say the First Amendment used to defend folks like Phelps and other radicals and extremists.