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Why Brokeback Mountain is important and why it isn't

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:11 AM
Original message
Why Brokeback Mountain is important and why it isn't
Brokeback Mountain tells an uncomfortable story. For those, like me, too young to directly remember, it is jarring to see an era in which gay men routinely married women and had kids. For those who grew up in an age of gay straight alliences and corporate diversity programs, Jack and Ennis must appear as alien as a Martian. But like any good fiction, this story represents real people. People who grew up in an era of virtually no choices for LGBT people.

America in 1963 had no gay actors, doctors, teachers, or clergy. At least not openly gay versions of those. Moral clauses kept gays and lesbians out of those fields. There were no such things as non discrimination policies or laws. McCarthy, now remembered as an anti communist bully was also a homophobic one. Homosexuals were seen as security risks and perverts. In that America, the notion that two cowboys would ride into the sunset in each others arms was simply crazy talk.

Gays and lesbians tend to be horrible about having a sense of history. We honor Stonewall but forget about the Machete Society. The stories of the real life Jacks and Ennises are often lost to today's gay and lesbian. But it was the injustice and frustration of those people which led some to take those tenative steps toward equality that directly led to the world we live in now. A world, that for all its flaws, sees 3 of the largest 6 states with gay rights laws, an entire region with them, and four states with either full civil unions protection or outright same sex marriage. A world, that for all its faults, where the vast majority of corporations include gays and lesbians in their diversity training and protections. A world, that for all its faults, sees openly gay teachers and gay straight alliences in many of our high schools.

Jack and Ennis are, like it or not, a very real part of our history. People who felt forced to comply with society's dictates and marry and have kids were our first out parents when they eventually tired of the lies. The spouses involved in those marriages often became our allies due to the direct knowledge of how that pressure had ended up hurting them. Without the real life Brokeback Mountains, there would have been no Stonewalls. Without the real life Brokeback Mountains there would have been no custody cases.

This movie, even if it wins the Oscar it is now favored to win, won't solve the problems of the world. It also won't open closed minds. But it will, if we let it, give us a sense of history that many of us sorely lack. Instead of condeming the Jack and Ennises of the world we ought to thank our lucky stars we were born in a world that is alien to theirs. We should bow down to those brave few who helped changed that world. Thanks to those people, we can only guess if we would have behaved differently than they did. I, for one, am happy not to know what I would have done faced with that world.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. According to Annie Proulx...
Edited on Tue Jan-17-06 09:27 AM by TechBear_Seattle
"Brokeback Mountain" is about the destructive power of homophobia. She was quite unhappy at the MSM calling it "a gay cowboy love story" because the story is not about Ennis and Jack being in love; the story is about how Ennis and Jack were not allowed to acknowledge that love, not even to themselves. If we keep that in mind, the movie becomes far more powerful.

And I agree about history. Part of the problem is that the gay community doesn't have much in the way of cultural continuity; there aren't really any elders to hand down stories of the fights that have been won and the names that should be honored. Everyone knows about Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. How many people know about Magnus Hirshcfeld, Harry Hay, Del Martin or Phyllis Lyon? It is remarkable to look back at what things were like in the 80s and see how far we have come, and depressing to hear young people assume that it has always been this good.

Anywa, about the movie, I would like to recommend again "Brokeback Mountain: Story to Screenplay". It contains the short story, the original screenplay, and short essays by Proulx, McMurty and Ossana about turning the short story in to a movie. Definitely a good buy.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I agree that the movie clearly had a larger message
since you saw both marriages and the damage done to both women by them. I think the nearly lustful coverage that Jake and Heath got was less than helpful in that regard.

The lack of continuity is a huge problem. Most cities don't even have decent gay and lesbian library where one could study the people you mention. That is a crying shame. I lived in the late 70's and early 80's and recall them all too well. My sister, who is 10 years younger, literally has no clue as to what it was like for me back then. While her being straight is part of it, most of it is the very different school and employment enviroments she has seen.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Brokeback Mountain is most important because it drives a
stake into the heart of that most popular straight male icon, the laconic, straight shooting, plain talking, honest and simple cowboy, the John Wayne archetype that so many of us have witnessed our straight male brothers trying to emulate.

THAT is why it's pissing so many people off. They wouldn't give a hoot if the main characters were steamfitters or truck drivers. They're all bent out of shape 'cause John Wayne aint supposed to be some sissy gay boy.

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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. And I would delightfully challenge any Freeper
To call Ennis Del Mar a sissy gay boy to his face. :popcorn:
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. or to call anybody they presume is gay today
a sissy gay boy to his face.

That's why they travel in packs - to quote Eddy Murphy: "it's some 'mbarrassin' shit get yo ass beat by a fag"

And we'll be happy to oblige.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. A boyfriend of mine did that once
Edited on Fri Jan-20-06 11:10 PM by mitchtv
on the corner of Castro and 18th. Some punks were abusing some real nelly type and my tough Mex-OR native SanFranciscan young friend* picked one and beat the shit out of him.All the while asking him how it felt to get your ass kicked by a faggott. By this time there was a applauding crowd. Ah... the 70's

*when being built like a brick shithouse really came in handy.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Actually the opposite
it drives a stake into the heart of the precious stereotype of the gay boy as a prissy weak man-girl.

People hate to see their cherished stereotypes croak - and to actually have to consider that gay people aren't "weak" and that we have the same personal and character strengths and weaknesses as anyone else in the same situation means you have to consider that we are human too.

I mean, if you can't hate fags any more, who's left to hate? :sarcasm:

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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's important because life imitates art.
People will see this film and think about it the next time they find out a friend or relative is gay.

That's not a minor matter, contrary to what some here in the GLBT forum claim.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I am not sure how many people are seeing this film
who aren't already positively disposed towards LGBT people. A movie can do quite well with a fairly small percentage of the population seeing it.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Of course, you can't control that. But given the film's quality
and rave reviews, people who are predisposed to see it may see it just out of curiosity or because they feel they have to just to keep up on what's going on culturally.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. true
One can hope.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Sorry, I meant "who are NOT predisposed to see it"
:hi:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I figured as much
I make that kind of typo all the time.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. a couple of things --
''Gays and lesbians tend to be horrible about having a sense of history.'' -- we have no institution that represents the collected history of our people.
that gay people have developed a fantastic culture through the long history of mankind is remarkable given the social prohibitions against us in this or that culture.

second gay families are such a new phenomena that we don't know yet what contributions the offspring from these folks will make -- and they are going to make some great ones -- family history will be one of them.

''This movie, even if it wins the Oscar it is now favored to win, won't solve the problems of the world. It also won't open closed minds. But it will, if we let it, give us a sense of history that many of us sorely lack.''

it's an individual history that the story of brokeback opens up in a new way -- the invisible story that is kept from us AND from straight people -- because we haven't had -- and still don't in many cases -- the kinds of connections that institutions bring.

most gay people will be raised isolation from each other -- will have to absorb love of self or it's ugly step sister hate -- on their own.

for the most part -- we are the only minority who do not drag their parents with them into the experiences they have in the world.


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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. actually that is beginning to change
Various archives are being built in places such as San Francisco and New York. We need to compile oral historys of our older people before it is too late.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. yes the media age has done a
great deal to bring change to that environment.
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Uncle Roy Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Steve Walker's take on this
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. isn't that wonderful?
i notice dad holding the hand of the son -- and the mother standing -- hands clasped behind her back -- isolated.
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Uncle Roy Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hmm...
I didn't see her as isolated, though I suppose you could make a case for that... But whatever. I guess there's no "right answer" here. That's one of the things I like so much about Steve Walker's stuff. He's not a "great artist" I suppose, with all the attendant hooplah, but his paintings all have a strong story line, and I like that. There's always something going on in them, and we are invited inside to think about who these people are and what they are doing.

In this one I really DO like, very much, the fact that the father is holding his son's hand, in what seems like a reasonably firm but tender way. But then I have my own personal "issues" on that subject, and even late in life I still crave "firm tenderness" from men.

But mainly, in keeping with one of the subjects of this thread, I like Walker's fantasy that there could be an institution out there somewhere that wants to preserve and display scenes from the everyday lives of ordinary gay people, and there is a "mainstream audience" out there that is interested in seeing it, and not scared off.

To some extent our movies form the Museum of American Consciousness, such as it is, and I'd like to think that, with Brokeback Mountain, we are finally opening the new Gay Wing.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
19. I disagree
All it is is a typical Hollywood story about two people who 'want each other but cannot have each other.'

Rather than it being over race, or age, or one of them being married, it's because they both have penises.

A recycled Hollywood theme with a queer veneer, and it runs off with a load of cash and awards.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Few fundies are claiming "it's just a love story with a queer veneer."
Your comments on the film are puzzling, because while, if I recall correctly, you are gay, it seems as though you seek to minimize the film's importance - such that it may or may not be, and it may very well NOT be important or influential at all.

Wouldn't it serve your interests better if you either helped make people think about the issues addressed in the film (even if you can't bring yourself to make people think about the film itself), or else just remain quiet?

Your response would be appreciated. Thanks. :hi:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. It is by no means typical
First, typical Hollywood movies have happy endings in regards to love. It is still fairly rare for a movie to have an unhappy ending let alone two unhappy ones.

Second, the penis thing kind of does matter. Just like race mattered in "Guess Who Is Coming To Dinner" and age mattered in "How Stella Got Her Groove Back".

Just because it is a love story doesn't make it unimportant.

Finally the movie is doing well for a variety of reasons. It is very well done. Well acted, well written, well directed, and about a unique story didn't hurt.
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