Are children of gays obligated to keep their parents' secret--forever?

[pnwmom]

A woman I know spent her childhood in dread that her mothers would be outed and their lives turned upside down. (They lived in a small, ignorant and judgmental place.) As an adult, she moved away and experienced the relief of being "out" with her friends (about her mothers -- she is straight). Now, due to a job change, she may need to move back to her home town. Her mothers want her to go back into the closet. The idea makes her almost physically sick, but she doesn't want to hurt them, either, or disrupt their lives. What should she do?

[Maddy McCall]

1. I'm lost...

Should she keep her parents' secret a secret if she moves back?

I think that one's pretty simple. If they ask her to keep it secret, she should.

What good would outting her own mothers do her? :shrug:

[lindisfarne]

3. You're absolutely right. It's not her secret to tell. Maybe she'd be

best off not moving back to the town. Would she be in favor of outing a friend? (I understand it leaves her in a difficult situation.)

[pnwmom]

5. Having a gay parent is also your secret. Outing your parent feels like

outing yourself, too. And once you're out, who wants to go back inside? It's not as clear cut as you might think. I wish parents would think about this before they decide to bring children up in an unwelcoming place.

Is it fair to choose to raise a child in a place where they will always have to lie to their friends, teachers, and everybody else they know? I know this is what GLBT's themselves often have to do. But if they want to have children, shouldn't they move to a community where everybody can be out? The secrecy is really toxic to the children who grow up like this. They usually don't tell their parents because they don't want to hurt them (they have learned to parent their parents.) But they talk about this among themselves.

[pnwmom]

4. As I said, it was very difficult for her to live the secret life while

she was a child -- as it would be for any child -- and it was a tremendous relief for her when she moved away and could be honest with her friends about her family. She doesn't want to have to go back to lying again, which is what they want her to do. It will stir up all the bad old feelings -- in fact, it already has.

I'm kind of surprised you don't see the conflict here. Having to keep this sort of secret is a big issue for COGs, by the way. The child grows up feeling a sense of shame about his or her family, similar to what any child growing up with an "elephant in the living room" experiences.

[Demobrat]

2. What a shame that she has to move back.

What she should do is she should try to stay where she is (assuming she likes it where she is of course) or find a job someplace other than her hometown, where she won't have to live with the stress inherent in secret-keeping every day of her life. Critical distance .... sometimes it's the only way.

On edit: Of course she can't out her mothers against their wishes, that would cause such a world of misery for everybody concerned she would end up wishing she never moved back in the first place.

[pnwmom]

6. I agree; I told her I didn't think she could live with the guilt.

Unfortunately, it is her husband that wants to take the hometown job. So she's stuck between him and her mothers.

[Demobrat]

7. Man that sucks.

Best of luck to her. Of course I think a lot would depend on whether or not her husband knows. If he doesn't, and she has to keep it from him too, well, that's just too much to ask of any human. If he does, at least she will have the relief of being able to be honest in her own home. Still ...

[pnwmom]

9. Her husband knows, but doesn't understand why she can't just be

open about it, regardless of what her mothers say.

On the other hand, his parents are offended by the whole subject.

[pnwmom]

8. Looking at it the other way. Should a gay person be obligated to remain

in the closet because his or her parents are afraid that their child's living openly will affect their own standing in the community?

[sandnsea]

10. Grown children don't interfere in parents' lives

Should a grown child turn their parent in for smoking pot? Evading their taxes? Having an affair? It's not her business. When you grow up, you're supposed to realize that your parents' life is separate from your own and respect the differences. I would bet your friend has a thing or two she wouldn't want her home town to know either. Should her mothers just blab stuff around town anyway??

[eyesroll]

12. This isn't quite the same as keeping tax evasion secret, though.

That isn't likely to come up on its own; people don't generally ask, "so, anyone cheat on their taxes this year?"

Sexual orientation works its way into regular conversation, every day, in ways people don't realize when they're not hiding anything. "What did you do this weekend?" "I took my moms out for dinner." You've got to consciously and deliberately parse your way through even the most mundane things. I can see where it would be impossible. It goes beyond being discreet, and into out-and-out lying. I'm not sure I could lie my way through every day of my life about people who mean the world to me.

I agree with people upthread in that I'd probably not move, and if my husband couldn't understand why this was a BIG DEAL, perhaps my first move would be to a marriage counselor.

[pnwmom]

18. "It goes beyond discrete, and into out-and-out lying." Yes! Thank you

eyesroll, for getting it -- and for explaining it better than I.

[sandnsea]

27. It is the same

Lots of people have to deal with family peculiarities. What did you do this week-end? Oh, took my mother to a shelter because my dad got drunk and beat the hell out of her again. Or in my case, had dinner with my grandfather and his girlfriend - no, my grandmother isn't dead. (Yes that happened) Family is family, you either respect their wishes on how they want to live their lives, or you don't have a relationship with them.

[pnwmom]

30. But what about the reverse situation? Where a gay parent decides to

out himself or herself -- and takes the teenage children along for the ride? Parents often don't seem to realize that the child is also being outed -- as a member of a "gay family"-- with no preparation and no choice. Suppose a lesbian with a 13 year old wanted to out herself and move in with her partner. But her child asked her to wait until she was in college. Should the mother respect the child's wishes not to be outed yet -- acknowledging the fears that the child has about how she may be treated in school -- or should she just go ahead and expect the child to deal with it?

And how is this fundamentally different from the situation here?

[sandnsea]

31. Respect the child

I happen to think it's particularly cruel to do that to a child who isn't prepared to deal with it. I would add new spouses or partners, straight or otherwise; certain jobs and even things like running for office. Parents and kids have to work through these things together and if they both repect each other, they'll come to the conclusions that work for them.

[pnwmom]

32. I agree; they need to all work together, in both circumstances.

Unfortunately, too often it's the parent dictating the situation. In the original situation I described, I'm sure my friend will accede to her mothers wishes. But I wish her parents were more sensitive to the impact their decisions have had on her life.

[sandnsea]

34. She should tell them

They may not understand what it's like for her. Sounds like it's time for a mother/daughter week-end and some real heart-to-hearts. But really, all families have to deal with differences of opinion on how to deal with secrets or sensitive issues that come up. It isn't limited to gays.

[pnwmom]

35. No, it certainly isn't limited to gays. But when the issue is of

this scale, it isn't healthy either. It can be a sign of serious dysfunction.

[sandnsea]

37. If one wants to blow it out of proportion

It's no bigger scale than a whole host of family issues. Some people make a big personal issue out of parents who don't mow their lawn regularly. Your friend can either get it in perspective or be miserable, it's her responsibility now, not her moms.

I am sorry, I just think people make way too much of the basic human condition. I would include the gay moms, cuz if I had to advise them I'd tell them life's too short to care about bigots too. It is true that most people are too involved in themselves to truly care what other people are doing.

[pnwmom]

38. In many families that I personally know of, the issue is very large.

It's one of the most difficult problems. I think you're trivializing it. You might want to take a look at a website called www.familieslikemine.com, if you
are interested in what it's like for kids growing up in gay families. There can be many wonderful aspects, but this is the dark side. And to say it is like other family secrets, like a parent's alcoholism, for instance, doesn't diminish the negativity.

[sandnsea]

40. It's still her problem now

If she has issues with it, as an adult, it's still her problem to resolve. Just like any other adult child with lingering issues. Her parents aren't going to change and she doesn't have a right to insist that they do. In the scheme of things, this is really very trivial and not like having an alcoholic or criminal or seriously dysfunctional parent at all. Honestly, she probably ought to count her blessings.

[pnwmom]

16. I don't think you're "getting" how much this would feel like the child's

business to any COG. People make judgments about you if they know that your parents are gay. To have finally thrown those fears off -- and then to have to return to them -- would be very difficult. About as difficult as for a gay person to return to the closet.

The other thing that I don't think you're understanding is how hard it is to have to lie, forever, because someone else wants you too -- when it doesn't feel authentic to you.

[sandnsea]

28. See #27

I just disagree. Most families have some sort of "issues" going on. If her mothers don't want people to know then it's their business. Same as if they had cancer or a legal problem or a host of other issues they might not want the entire town to know about.

[pnwmom]

33. The problem is the lying, almost on a daily basis, that occurs in this

sort of situation. And the sense of shame. At home, you have two mothers; at school, you only have one. You have to keep this all a secret, because of your parents' fear that your friends and neighbors will condemn you. This goes way beyond normal privacy issues -- like not wanting neighbors to know how much money you make, or that a grandfather is an alcoholic.

It is more like having a parent who is an alcoholic, in some ways. The child grows up protecting the parent, afraid for the parent, and feeling shame on behalf of the parent. (Because that is what the hiding itself conveys.) And the neighbors have probably noticed a lot more than the parent or the child realizes. This isn't a healthy way to live. And when you've finally moved beyond it, it must be hell to return to.

You know who does get it? The gay writers of the HBO show, "Big Love" -- about the fundie Morman family. Their older daughter, especially, is struggling with trying to feel good about her family at the same time that she has to hide their secrets, at the same time that she has to be afraid to invite her friends over because they might find out about her three mothers and her half-siblings.

Secrets can be toxic in families, even in families with the most loving, most well meaning parents.

[sandnsea]

36. And almost all families have them

And serious secrets at that, that's the way life is. Honestly, I really think your friend should just grow up and deal with it. She isn't a little kid anymore and what her moms do have nothing to do with her, even in the same town, no matter how small. I have 3 children and the answer to most any question about them is - same old, same old - work, school, whatever. Their lives aren't anybody's business but their own.

[pnwmom]

41. It's not just their lives. She has two mothers, but she's supposed to

deny one of them.

[xchrom]

11. i doubt these are the only dynamics in play here.

husband, moms, etc.

people have to live their own lives.

it is not the daughters responsibility to live her life for her moms -- but neither is it the moms responsibility to live theirs for their daughters.

they will do what is necessary for them to live.

and btw -- the daughter has had the opportunity to come out.
the moms are not having the same experience.

[pnwmom]

17. You would be surprised by how common this kind of issue is

among COG's. Growing up in secrecy is painful and can cause a deep sense of shame about the family.

The mothers could have chosen to move somewhere, by the way. They had the same opportunity to do that as the daughter, but chose to remain where they were.

[xchrom]

19. and that is their choice.

you nor anyone else has the answers for how someone else should live.

that is the place jerry falwell wants to take us.

[pnwmom]

21. Actually, this friend asked for my advice. I wish I could have given

her a better answer.

[Dunvegan]

13. Counseling for Everyone Involved.

Moms with daughter and husband.

Daughter with husband.

GLBT-Friendly counseling, even if they have to find it weekly or monthly out of that small town.

Seldom works to be high-handed and morally stubborn regarding how those you love should lead their lives. And perhaps a moratorium could be worked out regarding sudden outing until a consensus or final impasse was reached.

There should be some 3rd party for arbitrage, so the worst fears and real worst impacts of the moms being outed are shared by the moms...and the worst fears and real worst impacts of keeping secrets are shared by the daughter and SIL.

There might be repercussions that would be utterly devastating for one party (say one mom) that could cause catastrophic impact. Could be an issue that is something one or more parties has NEVER aired to anyone in the world (that's the nature of the secret-keeping life.)

And it's time the moms hear how keeping secrets really impacts every thought and word of their children and in-laws, depriving them honesty and peace of mind in their day-to-day living.

(The moms might also be served by hearing from younger and supportive relatives, and learning how it is for the younger SIL that he supports their life choice so strongly he can't even see the problem. Could be enlightening. But forcing a decision on elders is seldom anything but divisive.)

This family really needs a sympathetic professional that could negotiate the peace and promote coping skills for the outcome.

This course could prevent culture and outing shock, destruction of the family unit, and very hard feelings, or even vicious small-town social repercussions.

And counseling could promote understanding, coping skills, plans for understanding each other, and closer family ties.

In this particular case, it's not only worth a try...looks like it's required for a healing and progressive outcome in their environment.

[pnwmom]

20. Thanks. I'll definitely pass this along.

[Meldread]

14. Not the popular opinion, but here is mine.

There is a point in time, where "my secret" becomes "our secret" and the person who originally held the secret loses control over the situation. You cross that threshold when you directly involve other people. If you enter a relationship and are completely in the closet and your partner is not, "your secret" is no longer just yours it becomes his/hers too. The same is easily said for bringing children into a relationship, and when those children marry and have children of their own. It all becomes their secret.

Now, I am sure most people can agree on that. However, it gets sticky when it comes down too revealing the secret to others. Does the right to reveal the secret only belong to the original secret holder or does it belong to everyone who is involved? Well I suppose it depends. You obviously wouldn't want to reveal something like that without talking to everyone involved first. After you've talked, explained your position, then you have to make a choice. To reveal or not to reveal. There really is no right answer to that question, as revealing it may cause harm to everyone involved, but remaining silent will cause harm to yourself. On the original secret holders part it is generally speaking good courtesy to release anyone who is involved from any obligation to keep the secret. When you directly involve others, you don't have the right to request them to remain silent - it is just wrong.

This is why I always caution against LGBT people dating other people who are 100% in the closet, especially if they themselves are completely out. In many ways it forces them right back into the closet, which isn't fair. My general advise is normally to remain friends with the person, but tell them that there can be nothing beyond friendship until they are open about themselves to others. If they don't even want friendship under those conditions, then they probably aren't worth having as a friend anyway, and a further relationship beyond friendship probably isn't worth pursuing.

It is more difficult when children and grandchildren are brought into the equation, because they don't have the luxury of saying they don't want to be involved. In my opinion if you are going to involve children, then you are honor bound to be open and honest about your life, or at least give children the right to be open and honest about it.

I can understand both sides, and really no one is at fault. It is society and the people who make life difficult that are to blame. Even though it may be unfair I do believe it is best if the two mothers released their daughter and her husband from any obligation of keeping their secret. It is just the right thing to do.

[pnwmom]

23. Thank you, Meldread, for giving so much thought to this.

I'll pass them on.

[Meldread]

26. Well, there are other ways of looking at the situation as well.

The general assumption being made here is the assumption that the parents simply do not wish to be outted. However, there may be other factors involved and most likely are. Things are not as cut and dry as they may seem, which is certainly why I suggested that the daughter should speak to her parents first. A discussion should be held on the issue before any choices or decisions are made, and even if there is disagreement, at least everyone is informed of the positions being taken.

I could certainly see her mothers being worried for their daughters safety. That may be their primary concern, as well as the concern that people will shun her because of them, and they don't want that to happen. There may also be fears of being discriminated against while at work and the like - a whole host of issues and factors may be involved. Each of them is a valid concern and something that should be discussed - I can't stress that point enough - it is something that must be discussed. In the end, the daughter may actually find herself in agreement with her parents, and if not at least her parents know where she stands and what she intends to do and can plan and prepare themselves accordingly.

[pnwmom]

29. Don't worry, she's been talking to her mothers. And I doubt, since they

are adament, that she will oppose them. But it's killing her.

[Meldread]

39. I just have a hard time understanding...

...what her parents problem is? Do they have friends or family there that don't know? (And if they do, I'd imagine they probably already are 98% sure they are lesbians. It's not every day you see two "best friends" living together, raising a child together, and not dating the opposite sex.)

I just don't understand the parents side of the issue, because if they are already out and open where they currently live, then I don't see what the problem is if bigots from their former town know? The only thing that keeps coming to my mind is the fact that they may be trying to protect their daughter, in which case their stance is understandable. (And the daughter's response should be, "Thank you for your concern, but let me decide what is best for me.")

Honestly, it's just hard to fathom. They should release their daughter form any obligation to keep their secret. It just isn't right, unless they have a very good reason.

[pnwmom]

42. No, I guess I haven't been clear. The parents haven't moved, they're

where they've always been, where they are out to very few people. The daughter, when she moved several states away, was finally able to be honest with her friends (in her new state) and has since told a few close friends in the home town. Her husband has no problem at all with her mothers. Her in-laws know, but aren't very happy about it.

So the main issue is that these mothers think that they've kept their secret all these years and don't want to be exposed. I agree with you, though. People aren't so dumb anymore. Maybe the whole town is on a "don't ask, don't tell policy." On the other hand, the daughter is tied up in knots at the idea of hurting her mothers. I'm sure she won't expose them. It's all a shame, though. I still think it's better if families with children can live in more gay-friendly places. It's not hard to find them anymore. Why expose kids to all this unnecessarily?

[Meldread]

43. Ahh, then it makes sense.

Well, I'd wager most people who know them already highly suspect and are 97% sure. I am assuming of course that her parents have been living together for a very long time. What are they telling everyone? That they are sisters? Best friends? Cousins?

I can understand her mothers position though. They must be terrified. The best thing to do is probably to have the daughter help her mothers work through their fears and help them live openly. They'll no doubt all be much happier in the end.

I originally thought, when I read the post, that the entire family had moved away when their daughter was a child. Then their daughter was going to move back to their old hometown. Yes, the best thing I can think to do is to have the daughter help her mothers work through their fears of being out. It is highly likely that most people already know or at least deeply suspect.

[mzteris]

15. come on

if these two women have lived in a "small town" all their lives and raised a kid(s) together - you think people don't KNOW???????

She should do her MOMS a favor and just continue living her life. SHE shouldn't have to be in the closet just because THEY are. Either don't move back, or tell them while she won't go shouting it from the rooftops and take out an ad in the paper - she certainly can't monitor her every word and action like she was FORCED TO DO when she was growing up.

Being a kid in the closet WITH your parent is stifling as hell. Open the door and get out!

[pnwmom]

22. You know, that was my first reaction too. I can't believe that most

people in this day and age wouldn't have figured this out long ago. I think the moms are fooling themselves. But the daughter thinks they're honestly worried.

[davidinalameda]

24. secrets are like lies

you'd be amazed what would happen if you tell the truth or stop keeping the secrets

maybe her mothers should take a look to see what they're doing to their daughter in asking her to keep their secret

and I bet that more people know their secret than they think

if they have an adult daughter and they've been together for at least 18 years (you didn't say how old your friend is) I'm willing to bet that people already know that they're gay

[pnwmom]

25. I bet you're right. She's in her late 20's.

[Ayesha]

44. Horrible

How these mothers could do this to their child is beyond me. If you're going to have kids you need to be willing to be honest about your life, even if that means dealing with some prejudiced people or moving to an open-minded place. I'm not saying they need to have a rainbow flag flying on their lawn, but it's grossly unfair to a child to grow up having no friends or family that know the truth about their life and accept their family structure. Frankly if I was the daughter I'd be furious at my parents and tell them to fuck off, unlike you I've got the courage to be myself.

Granted, I say that as someone whose grandfather and extended family don't know I'm a lesbian (yet anyway), so I am not perfect here. He's a racist old jerk and I don't want to lose my inheritance, but once he's gone, I'll tell everyone else. But my father and stepmother know and accept me, and my partner and I live openly and honestly in a liberal state (CA) where when we have kids, they'll know other kids with two moms and have understanding friends.

People who put their self-hatred onto their kids really piss me off.

[pnwmom]

45. Ayesha, thank you for "getting it." In speaking to other adult

children, time after time I hear that the biggest dark issue many of us have faced is the secrecy. The toxic secrecy. And now that there are so many places where gay people can live openly, no one who wants to raise children should consider living in a place where the whole family has to remain in shame and fear.