are the young turks kidding!!??!!

[rusty charly]

they just did a really bad series of very phobic gay jokes related to lance bass and then one of the guys just said: "i don't think two guys should marry- i'm standing with the republicans on this one"

WTF!!??!!

[xchrom]

1. first i don't really know who they are --

second -- why are you surprised?

this is america -- famed for it's claim to being stupid while knowing better all at the same time.

jesus -- if there is one thing this country KNOWS how to do -- it's be bigoted.

[rusty charly]

2. here:

http://www.theyoungturks.com/

"The Young Turks, the first nationwide liberal talk show and first live, daily internet TV show, is a funny, smart, irreverent and entertaining look at politics, sex, news, pop culture, current affairs and personal stories. The Young Turks airs live M-F from 6 - 9 pm ET via webcast, on Sirius Satellite Radio, on iTunes (Radiopower.org), and on affiliate radio stations nationwide."

[xchrom]

3. back in the day -- young turks were republicans.

but now i'm remembering that du had something going about this radio show.

but i don't get sirius -- so it went into my mental round filing system.

[rusty charly]

4. they are also on itunes

so i used to switch back and forth between AAR and them, but i literally had to switch it off in mid-sentence in disgust.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. My husband's theory

is men who make anti-gay jokes are unsure in their own self-image. Men who know who they are don't do such things. Just sayin'.....

[pooja]

6. I'm really sorry to post a news flash.. but most men are a little

uncomfortable with gay men. Now, 2 women, field day for an imagination. The attitude is kind of changing but it has gone from complete bashing to.. "Joe's ok, but if he ever hits on me, I'll..."

Many men are stuggling to still be the man in a world. The old attitude of a man protecting and providing for his family has left the building. As the joke goes... "daddy works at his job, mommy works at her job and then comes home and works here while daddy takes a nap." So, I suppose if a man hit on them they feel like they aren't living up to the standards...

[idgiehkt]

8. how unenlightened

we already know this shit. we just don't excuse it.

[Sapphocrat]

14. Unenlightened, and utterly pathetic.

Sign me,

Wonder what they'd do to me if I used the "straight panic" defense the next time a man hit on me?

[sui generis]

7. There are plenty of "progressives" right here on DU

who agree with them. They're usually smart enough to avoid naming themselves though.

Here's what I think:

I DO think that nobody should get to make a public decision about someone else's personal life, not republicans, not progressives, not even some guy who walks on water and raises the dead three times a day before breakfast. If you want that then just go ahead and call yourself the "young taliban".

P.S. Those of us it impacts have to agree to go along with it. Good luck with that. We are not typically in awe of the self-proclaimed authority of bigoted pseudo-intellectual MENSA rejects.

P.S. Part Deux: I think the "young turks" can just go keep standing with the republicans for all I care. Neo cons and social conservatives yes, but republicans as a political ideology should not be synonymous with bigotry. However the young turks apparently think that is the case, and want to "stand with them".

No problem. We like to keep you where we can see you.

[idgiehkt]

9. are they libertarians?

I've never heard of these guys before and I don't want to go to the website.

I also can't understand why they don't object to two men fucking; it's just the guys getting married that they have a problem with. Is it because they are afraid there won't be anyone available when they are running around on the lam from their wives on the 'down-low' or somthing?

Not questions addressed to you, just thinking out loud.

[2QT2BSTR8]

10. Sorry - but I have to disagree with everyone on this topic....

If anything the YT have been extremely supportive of our community. If you happen to have access to their archived radio/internet shows, you would see that on numerous occasions they have not only been supportive of our cause, but have also gone to bat against a significant number of people that have either A. been on their show with an anti-gay message, or B. hosted openly gay authors, actors, clinicians, clergy, etc.

Even though they, mostly likely Jinx, may not support gay marriage, they have the right to have that opinion. Ask yourself, would you rather that we have 1 or 2 people that support us on every single topic, or would you rather have a group of people, who are willing to discuss the topic in an open forum and with open ears and minds?

Rather than complaining about one off comment, and assuming that this one comment is the standard, is extremely closed minded on your part. I am grateful I have my Sirius radio, and will continue to listen the YT as they continue to tackle the topics that nobody else is willing to or open-minded enough to.

[davidinalameda]

11. so you're willing to excuse them on a basic civil rights issue

I'm not

[2QT2BSTR8]

12. That is not what I said...

I said that I am willing to sacrifice something in the short term, if it helps to enlighten that person in the long term. I would rather have someone on "our side" at least discussing the topic in a slanted view, rather than not having anyone on our side and getting blown out of the water.

[davidinalameda]

13. so you're willing to sacrifice basic civil rights in the short term?

we're getting blown out of the water right now

we have so-called liberals not supporting us and when other see these so-called liberals not supporting us, they think it's okay not to support us

there are no gray areas here-someone is either with us or not

[2QT2BSTR8]

19. Quoting directly from your site....

'Tis the gift to be loved and that love to return,
'Tis the gift to be taught and a richer gift to learn,
And when we expect of others what we try to live each day,
Then we'll all live together and we'll all learn to say....

[Sapphocrat]

15. You go right ahead and capitulate.

That's your prerogative.

[2QT2BSTR8]

16. I know that I am new to DU, and your view is more likely.....

to want it all or nothing at all. I understand both of your concerns, however I do not believe that I am capitulating. Can you honestly sit there and say that we are better off having NO supporters on our side unless they believe in 100% of what we are fighting for? Or would you rather have to go through all of our fighting and struggles with someone that we can at least meet half way on a topic? How are we to gain allies in our struggles if we do not work to change the hearts and mind of those who do not hold our same ideals on every single topic.

A. If either of you have taken the time to read any of my posts, albeit they are few and far between, you would know that this struggle is one that I take on every time I sing with my choir. To change the heart and mind one song at a time is one of the core principals of the TCC. Your medium happens to be the web, and mine happens to be music, but we are both working toward the same end. I just celebrated, along with my partner, having been in the TCC for 5 years. And that 5 years I have had many life changing and life affirming moments. I would even dare to say that so have some of the people that have met us 1/2 way as many people have "testified to".

B. Did you even both to call into the RADIO SHOW and discuss or rebut the comments made by the talk shows hosts . My guess would be no. Its either you are with us, or you are against us. I am sorry, but I just don't believe that is the correct course of action, or in this case NON action to take. By your "switching off or changing of the channel", have you made the comment go unchallenged or unanswered? do you believe that one persons stance on a topic is the believe of the entire group? It is our duty to not let items of this nature go unanswered. I invite you to listen to any more of their shows, or better yet to call in and have a civilized conversation rather than just burying your head in the sand and crying foul.

[foreigncorrespondent]

22. Pardon me for saying this...

...but you don't know Sapph from the back of your hand, so your assuming what she wants is way out of line here. Let me tell you what the woman wants, after all, I have known her for over six years, and never to her, probably the best person to tell you this, after all, I am her partner.

What does Sapph want? She wants the right to sponsor me for immigration into her country of birth, America. That right will either come from making changes to current U.S. immigration laws, or by making changes to current U.S. marriage laws.

Our entire life together rides on us being able to get one or the other in either The U.S. or Australia. Through changing immigration laws/or current immigration laws in Australia, we would have to prove the validity of our relationship and still have our future riding at the hands of an underpaid public servant who just might be having a bad day and refuse our request.

Now, if the marriage laws were changes in the U.S. (the laws have just been changed in Australia that wrote discrimination into our constitution) we could get married and not have near as much of a hard time trying to be together.

It is nice that you get to celebrate being with the TCC for five years with your partner, Sapph and I, we didn't even get to celebrate our six year, five year, four year, three year, and two year anniversary of our relationship together.

So maybe next time you had better think about how current marriage can affect the lives of many of your queer counterparts before you come here telling us we should support idiots who do not support our basic right to form families.

[2QT2BSTR8]

26. Again you are not listening to me....

I would love to marry my spouse as much as you would. But we both know that the ONLY way to affect that change is to work with anyone who will meet us halfway. Granted, if what was said, is so earth shattering that it has this much impact on you, then I again digress to your stance, because it is obvious you will not change.

My whole point is that one statement is being taken as one sided, and not even challenged. Rather you would turn it off and hope that in time, and without communication from our community, that their views will ever change.

I am sorry but I just do not see the point of tearing into someone and not even having heard their side of the topic. You make a one time judgment based on some very poorly chosen words, and force everyone, as you state I am trying to do to only see your side. No follow up, no communication, only accusations.

I am saddened that you have chosen to not listen to them anymore through either real time or archived shows. If you would see beyond the end of that one ill chosen statement, you would see that the YT is extremely supportive of our community. And I chose to continue to listen to them, challenge them, and enlighten them so that in time they will hopefully understand why their words have hurt you so deeply.

[foreigncorrespondent]

27. No mate, you are NOT listening to me!

You see, Sapph can't be my spouse, we don't have the privilege of actually living under the same roof, so we can claim that. When you are in a same sex binational relationship the ONLY thing that is 100% important to you is being with your partner.

You see, this year, how many days have you spent with your partner? For me and Sapph the answer is ZERO. We have not seen each other since last year. With ticket prices so high we cannot afford to see each other often. And are facing the first year we may not see each other at all. How would you feel being in our position? Being in a relationship with someone, where you got to live with them for 15 months, and been committed to them for the last six years of your life, but when you put pen to paper you find out you have actually spent more time apart than together. Yet this is the one person in this world that has been created to be loved by you, and love you. How would you feel?

Then tell me, how would you feel when you see your fellow queers giving passes to straights who just don't get it? Because mate, that is exactly what you are doing to everyone in this thread who doesn't conform to your way of thinking.

Now how would you feel being in my position and being told by some jerk on a forum that I should be listening to a bunch of jerks in another country to my own who, while they will meet me half way, they refuse to recognize the right for me to marry my partner?

I'm sorry, but half way does not cut it for me. I hate seeing my fellow queers giving passes to the halfwayers simply because, all it takes is for one bigot to see this and see that not all queers get upset with being called a fag, so that is their pass to continue saying it.

You give one half way bigot a pass, you give all bigots a pass. Good onya, you are not doing our community much service.

On edit: typo

[2QT2BSTR8]

28. NOW she finally communicates....

In the course of all the exchanges between us, I am just now learning that a. you are not a US citizen (which I did not know before), and b. you have a parter (which I also did not know before). All of this information was obtained through C O M M U N I C A T I O N, and for that I am thankful!

[foreigncorrespondent]

29. Well now...

...we see you don't read properly, or do your home work.

1) I have been saying I am an Australian since my second response to you. (See post 20)

2) I told you in my response (#22) that Sapphocrat was my partner.

3) Had you read my profile you would have learned all this anyway.

So I been communicating all along, it is YOU who has had blind spots in your reading of my responses however.

[Sapphocrat]

33. And that is your opinion.

My opinion is that you are, indeed, capitulating.

Can you honestly sit there and say that we are better off having NO supporters on our side unless they believe in 100% of what we are fighting for?

Can you honestly try not using hyperbole? Assuming, that is, you want me to take you seriously?

Or would you rather have to go through all of our fighting and struggles with someone that we can at least meet half way on a topic?

Halfway isn't good enough. Acquiesce all you want; it doesn't work (if African-Americans had taken that route, they still wouldn't have freedom, much less voting rights) -- but, hey, you're welcome to try.

How are we to gain allies in our struggles if we do not work to change the hearts and mind of those who do not hold our same ideals on every single topic.

There you go again with the hyperbole. Who said everyone needs to "hold our same ideals on every single topic"? It would be nice if knuckleheads like those mentioned in the OP would simply stop working against us, for starters.

A. If either of you have taken the time to read any of my posts, albeit they are few and far between, you would know that this struggle is one that I take on every time I sing with my choir. To change the heart and mind one song at a time is one of the core principals of the TCC. Your medium happens to be the web, and mine happens to be music, but we are both working toward the same end.

How the hell do YOU know what my "medium" is? Tell you what: I'll refrain from being aghast at your sweeping assumptions if you take the time to read my +/- 3,000 posts over the past four years, until you learn that I am not just another member of the 101st Keyboard Brigade.

I just celebrated, along with my partner, having been in the TCC for 5 years. And that 5 years I have had many life changing and life affirming moments.

Well, that's lovely. Truly lovely. It's been nine months since I've so much as seen my partner, and we've spent five of our last six anniversaries apart. Do tell me what it's like to have the luxury of all those life-changing and life-affirming moments at a distance of no more than six inches. 'Cause I really don't remember.

And you know what I've learned over the past six years? I've learned that fellow queers who kowtow to bigots in the hope that someday they'll come around to seeing things our way is just another obstacle toward our ever being together.

And, again, you have the luxury of kowtowing; you can wait for the rest of your life. I cannot, and will not.

I would even dare to say that so have some of the people that have met us 1/2 way as many people have "testified to".

Well, good for you. But if you think that halfway is good enough, then I say you haven't been doing a very good job of "testifying."

Again, halfway is not good enough. Period.

B. Did you even both to call into the RADIO SHOW and discuss or rebut the comments made by the talk shows hosts . My guess would be no.

Do you realize that there are people in this country who A) don't pay for radio, and B) wouldn't even if we could afford to?

Frankly, I have only a vague awareness of what Sirius is, and I am neither able nor willing to shell out however much it is per month to have access to it. But I do know this much: Anyone who makes jokes at the expense of gay people, and says, even half-jokingly, that s/he is "standing with the Republicans" isn't worth my time or energy. I may as well try to convince Rick Santorum that he's just not giving us nice homos a fair shake.

Have YOU contacted whoever these "turks" are? If you have, great. I'm sure we'd all love to be kept abreast of your progress with them. If not, then what are you doing wasting your time arguing with me?

Its either you are with us, or you are against us. I am sorry, but I just don't believe that is the correct course of action, or in this case NON action to take.

You have the gall to accuse me of "non-action"? I take back what I said before: Your presumption appalls me.

By your "switching off or changing of the channel", have you made the comment go unchallenged or unanswered?

One more time: I DON'T PAY for radio, and it is beyond my ken why some people do. YOU listen to this Sirius thing, then YOU do something about it -- instead of wasting your time arguing with me. Go ahead, prove your point. In fact, I beg you: Prove me wrong! PROVE you can inspire an epiphany among morons who think it's just ducky to take potshots at queers.

do you believe that one persons stance on a topic is the believe of the entire group?

Obviously not. Your beliefs certainly don't represent mine.

It is our duty to not let items of this nature go unanswered.

So go ANSWER it already. It would be a much better use of your time than lecturing me, and making not-so-subtle assumptions about my worldview, and my life, about which you know nothing.

I invite you to listen to any more of their shows, or better yet to call in and have a civilized conversation...

You offering to buy me a subscription?

...rather than just burying your head in the sand and crying foul.

Me burying my head in the sand? Now you're starting to piss me off.

No, wait, I take that back -- you really do piss me off. I don't like your attitude, I don't like your assumptions, I don't like your lectures, and I don't like the way you divert attention from the argument at hand by calling others on their use of "explicatives" -- which makes no sense whatsoever, as I'm sure you did not mean to criticize foreigncorrespondent for being logical.

And, by the way, yes, you do "resort to using explicatives." I hope we all do!

[foreigncorrespondent]

36. Hmmm!

Almost an hour since you posted this and look, just crickets.

Isn't it interesting that some posts have been ignored, while others haven't?

[foreigncorrespondent]

17. And...

...it is extremely closed minded on your part that we should all conform to your beliefs and support a group of idiots who do not support our basic right to marry.

[2QT2BSTR8]

18. I am not saying you should conform to "my beliefs"

Humph! I thought these were OUR beliefs.

Your point is taken, however that still does answer my query. Did you or did you not call or email them about what you felt was wrong about their comment? If your answer is no, then explain to me please how you are not being complicit?

[foreigncorrespondent]

20. I'm in Australia!

I don't get them! However, if my partner had the fucking right to marry me, I would be in America, and you bet your ass I would have contacted them.

So, what part of the name "foreigncorrespondent" don't you get? Or is it that you just like being a smart ass?

[2QT2BSTR8]

21. You have an internet connection....

so what is stopping from you listening to them online or chatting with them in their online chat room?

And for the record, when this same topic has come up before I HAVE contacted them. I fail to understand why you are being so aggressive on this matter. I am simply trying to point out that the one time interaction with the YT may have possibly been taken out of context.

In the past, their entire cast, especially Jill, has been extremely supportive of our community, and while I agree that what was purportedly stated is wrong in my view, I work to educate those who live in denial or in a state of misinformation. And more importantly I don't resort to using explicatives to get my point across. I guess we all communicate in different ways.

[foreigncorrespondent]

23. I see smart ass would be the answer.

I might have an internet connection mate, but I work, I am not home during the most part of my day unless like today I have a day off. When this show goes to air I am usually in bed.

You fail to see why I am being aggressive? I'm not. I am starting a fact that you come here and expect us to listen to a bunch of idiots who do not support us 100%. Mate, you might be willing to accept the back of the bus still, but I'm not, and my life with my partner rides on my not being chicken about standing up and being counted. That means giving no support to anyone who does not support us 100%.

[2QT2BSTR8]

24. My point exactly!

So again I ask, how does tuning them out make the problem go away? It seems to me that more a more constructive way to achieve your goal is to make your voice known to them.

[foreigncorrespondent]

25. What part of AUSTRALIAN...

...do you not understand? They are NOT going to listen to me, because my voice does not affect their ratings.

Stop being a smart ass, mate.

[mitchtv]

30. Having been in a binational relationship for years, (not now)

I completely understand your POV and support you and Saph completely. You know what I had to resort too with my Argentino. Fuck those punks if they don't like it; they don't support us, we don't support them.

[foreigncorrespondent]

31. Exactly, mitch!

And having been in a binational relationship you understand exactly what it is I am saying.

Why should we take the middle of the bus when we can achieve the front through hard work, and by not supporting those who do not support us 100%?

[2QT2BSTR8]

32. Well I don't take second helpings....

I can not say that I understand either of your positions as I am not in a bi-national relationship, for which I wish all of you the best. But I would rather take the middle (ground) of the "bus" and work towards the front, rather than having to start all the way at the back. As I have stated several times already, if what was said was indeed said, then yes I agree it was wrong, I never said it was ok with me. I simply stated that YT has gone to bat for the LGBT community before, and to discount them for all of their other work simply because of a stand they take on one topic does not mean I will not continue to engage them in meaningful conversation.

It is obvious that we both have points that none of us can agree to agree upon. That is what I like about DU, is to find out other viewpoints from other LGBT members and supporters, or in this case semi-supporters.

For now let's consider this horse beat to death, and agree to the fact that we both have our own strong opinions, and that we choose to act on those opinions in different ways.

My purpose of my original post was not to start an in-fight within us, it was simply to state that the purported statement is not the "norm" for the YT. Post away - this however will be my last post to this issue. My energy can be better channeled fighting against those who are 100% against us and what we believe in.

If I offended anyone - I sincerely apologize, however I will continue to stand by my posts.

[foreigncorrespondent]

35. Uh-huh!

Well I don't take second helpings....

No? Well I call folding and giving support to those who don't fully support you, is actually taking second helpings. Take what you can get and the expense of others with in the community. Sounds a lot like the the LCR to me.

I can not say that I understand either of your positions as I am not in a bi-national relationship

Well then, because of that reason alone, you had better stop lecturing us on what we should and shouldn't be doing in relation to who and what gets our support.

I never said it was ok with me

Oh but you have, simply by coming here and lecturing us on moving our support to those who more deserve it, because they SUPPORT US 100%.

...and agree to the fact...

Given what I have seen today, I don't think there will ever be a time we will agree on anything. You and I are on two different sides of the fence.

[Sapphocrat]

34. That's just one...

...of the many reasons we love you. Thanks, Mitch. :)

[mitchtv]

37. Mexicali, Mi Amor!

best to you both