Talk to me about Biphobia in the GLBT community

[bicentennial_baby]

I've encountered it, and continue to be mystified by it. Can anyone shed some light on this? :)

[DRoseDARs]

1. For gay men, they taking all the good guys, for the lebenese it the girls.

*Lebenese is an old joke from Ellen DeGeneres about lesbians and where they come from.

[bicentennial_baby]

14. Hehe....

:)

[NMMNG]

62. It's also a joke from "The Golden Girls"

Dorothy is explaining to Blanche that their houseguest is a lesbian.

Blanche replies, "Oh yes, Danny Thomas was one of those wasn't he?".

Dorothy rolls her eyes and says, "That's Lebanese Blanche!". :rofl:

[Anarcho-Socialist]

2. I've encountered it too

Some people find the idea to be threatening and hold the linear view that one "must be gay or straight" with no in-between. I can't quite explain why they believe this is so. To me it is along the lines of homophobia in its bigoted arguments of what is "normal" within sexuality.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. I agree with you

"To me it is along the lines of homophobia in its bigoted arguments of what is "normal" within sexuality."

:)

[Jed Dilligan]

3. In general, in the world, few believe male bisexuality exists.

A man who has sex with men is considered gay, period, even if he sees women more frequently. (He's "lying to himself" or something.) Women, on the other hand, are accepted as bi if they have sex with both sexes. It's a weird double-standard that's always mystified me as a straight man. Combine that with the number of straight women I've known who exaggerated their claims to bisexuality, and the number of women I've known who claim to be totally straight but seem very interested in women sexually, and it's just, really confusing.

[bicentennial_baby]

5. Interesting, I happen to know one lesbian

Who told me to my face that no one is bisexual, and that at the age of 28 I just didn't know what I was yet. Needless to say, highly offensive that was, as she was my friend. No longer though. x(

[Sapphocrat]

19. Silly lesbian!

The truth is that everyone is bisexual -- it's just that most of us lean much further toward a "1" or a "6". :)

[bicentennial_baby]

24. Hehe, and it was a DUer!

No names though :)

And I happen to agree with you :)

:loveya:

[Shipwack]

4. No clear cut answer....

Sometimes it's that some people dislike the opposite sex so much they don't want to associate with anyone that associates with them.

Sometimes it's a bad past experience; they met someone that rocked their world, but when all was said and done, the bi person went back to spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend.

Sometimes it's a perception of the bi person is just "experimenting", and will go away soon, let alone be ready for a long term relationship.

Some are annoyed by bisexuals, because we're supposedly not ready to "fully commit to the cause", and won't fight for equal rights (and buy our Tracy Chapman records/Tom O'Finland prints ;) )

All are generalizations (let alone necessarily true), of course, but a few of the reasons I've run into so far.

[bicentennial_baby]

12. I see...I'm still not buying it though.

Pure hypocritical prejudice in my eyes.... :shrug:

[Shipwack]

61. No arguments from me, however, one must remember...

Gay people are... well... -people-. Which means that sometimes they can be jerks, and petty, and prejudiced too. The whole "being only human" thing.

[LittleOne]

6. Mathematics

If I am bi-sexual I can date (read cheat with) 50% of the population (5% of my brand of homo and 45% of the opposite sex). If I am gay or lesbian I can date (read cheat with) 5%. Dating a person with 10X the opportunity to cheat may be unnerving for some.

[bicentennial_baby]

11. Hmmmm, still makes no sense to me

Why would being Bi mean you're going to cheat? :wtf:

[LittleOne]

26. Nothing other than insecurity and paranoia

but I have heard versions of that for the last 20 years. Especially when I identified as bi.

[bicentennial_baby]

29. Gotcha

:pals:

[Critters2]

37. A colleague told me just yesterday

that she can support gay or lesbian people, but to be supportive of bis is to support polygamy. "How can they know they're bi except by sleeping with two people." Me: "We don't have to sleep with those two people at the same time!" I tried to explain that I fall in love with people, not with categories.
She still didn't get it, and told me I just need to learn to accept my gay-ness.

:banghead:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

44. Wow...that person is an idiot.

That's pretty much all I have to say on the matter.

[bicentennial_baby]

53. thank you....

I can't really go into the details here, but you know my situation :hug:

:loveya:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

55. No prob...

:hug:

:loveya:

[Jamastiene]

78. Oh no.

Your colleague sounds like she has her mind made up and isn't budging, but she is wrong.

Besides, even if 3 people decide to get together and have a relationship, that's their business, not ours. If all three are happy together, I say more power to them. Otherwise, it's not a big deal. It all boils down to consent.

[bicentennial_baby]

82. Again....

you rock, so hard... :loveya:

thank you, from all of us... :loveya:

[Jamastiene]

83. I love all of you too.

Too bad our definition of openmindedness cannot be the majority. Things would be much easier that way. :loveya:

[dbackjon]

7. Several Reasons I can think of

1) Not fully committed to the team
2) Trying to have their cake and eat it too - at least in the South, most of the men who claim to be bisexual are really deeply closeted MARRIED gay men, who get married for the machismo, social aspect, but want to have sex with men to keep them satisfied.
3) But the #1 reason - our main fight for acceptance is against those who claim the homosexuality is 100% choice for everyone. Having men/women around that are bisexual bolsters that claim, in the anti-gay eyes - trumpeted as "proof" that sexuality is just a choice, and therefore it is ok to discriminate against those that have "chosen" to live in sin.


Personally, I have not met a true bisexual person - every single one of them are closeted gays, but I do accept the fact that there are bisexuals.

[bicentennial_baby]

9. Hi, nice to meet you

Um, wow...are you serious? If so, here I am. true bisexual, through and through.

[Critters2]

38. Now you've met two of us! nt

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

45. I can introduce you to some more "true" bisexuals.

Want me to russle some up?

[ncrainbowgrrl]

80. make that 3 of us.

:hi:

[HeavensHell]

8. I can't quite

explain it, but I don't date bisexuals..... It's prejudice I guess... I have had a few bad interactions with bisexuals so I'd rather not deal with it all together..

[bicentennial_baby]

10. Why?

Could you explain?

[HeavensHell]

17. I guess

I just think of bisexuals as shady so to speak. Most of the one's I've ever come across were only interested in sex and then had girlfriends on the side, so why bother? In the long run I think it would just be easier nor to pursue a relationship... I would never discount some one as a friend who was bisexual, but for dating forget it...

[bicentennial_baby]

20. Wow....

"I just think of bisexuals as shady"

Ouch. See, this is the bs i'm talking about! You want us to fight for the team, which I do, but then you say shit like that... :wtf:

Sorry, but that hurts. x(

[HeavensHell]

23. A few replies below

That person said it best... and I agree with their words. I just couldn't put the right words together at this time...

[bicentennial_baby]

25. Ok, but...

Shady? Man, that's a rough word. I guess it's b/c I never "dated". I've only ever been in LTRs, and I've never been a cheater. :shrug:

[HeavensHell]

27. I'm sorry

I shouldn't of used that word..... Forgive me but the brain shuts down when you don't sleep haha.... Bi-men, just seem a tad tooo str8 for me... And truth be told, being left for a woman would def crack the gay ego...

[bicentennial_baby]

28. I totally understand that

No problem :pals:

[HeavensHell]

30. Ladies

Be as bisexual as you want, I got no problem with that... All the power to ya... But men are assholes LOL....:evilgrin:

[bicentennial_baby]

31. Hahahaha!

:spank:

[HeavensHell]

32. It's true

Men are shady... They cheat more often than women..... Generally toss you aside for the next hot thing that gives them the eye so to speak... EH, I'm just bitter...

[last1standing]

47. That's pure bigoted bullshit.

There's just no nicer way to put it. I don't come here saying all gay men are sluts and I expect the same courtesy. You have some monster prejudices to deal with.

[Jamastiene]

79. Shady?

You must have just met a few then. Meet more and you'll see that there are plenty of good bisexual people who are not shady. Please don't limit yourself to who you trust based on a few bad experiences.

[TlalocW]

15. I'm straight, but for me

Bi people are just greedy. :)

TlalocW

[bicentennial_baby]

16. You....

:spank:

:)

[Critters2]

39. A friend has a t-shirt that reads:

"Bi-sexual: Twice as likely to have a date this weekend." :)

[Sapphocrat]

18. Shipwack's covered it.

As a recovering biphobic myself, the first reason (hating the opposite sex) never applied to me -- but the last three reasons did.

Mostly, though, I think biphobia happens when you're as gay as gay, or as straight as straight, as possible, and you've got a personal stake in the situation (i.e., being in love); you end up placing impossible expectations on the bi person because of your own insecurity that they're going to wander over to the other side again, no matter how much they tell you they want to be monogamous with you and you alone. Eventually, you end up pushing them away -- and, more often than not, they DO go back to the opposite sex. (That's just human nature -- if you're going to be accused of something, you may as well just go ahead and do it.)

I wouldn't date a bi woman again, because (aside from the fact that I have no intention of dating again, period - LOL) I realize I just can't kill that insecurity in myself. Getting dumped for a MOTOS is positively excruciating; not only do you go through all the usual breakup misery, but it feels like somebody you really, really, really trusted just invalidated your very gayness -- just like the rest of the world does on a regular basis. (That is, your same-sex relationship wasn't as "real" or "good enough" as an opposite-sex relationship.) No matter how well-adjusted and out and proud any of us is, I don't think there's a gay person on the planet completely free of internalized homophobia -- and getting dumped for a MOTOS brings back a lot of self-hate you thought you'd exorcised a long time ago.

So I don't feel biphobic anymore, but that's only because I don't look at bisexual women as potential romantic partners anymore. As long as I interact with them the same way I do straight people (we can be very close friends, but not lovers), I don't feel any animosity about bisexuality.

Which is really very unfair of me -- but at least I'm not in denial anymore.

[HeavensHell]

21. See above

Right there.... I couldn't put it into words do to lack of sleep but thats how I feel...

[bicentennial_baby]

22. Thanks for the thoughtful response

:hug:

:hi:

[Sapphocrat]

42. NP :)

See, now we can be friends without all that icky sexual tension getting in the way. ;)

:hug:

[bicentennial_baby]

52. ....

:rofl:

I adore you, and I always have, as long as I've been a DUer :loveya:

[last1standing]

33. As you've seen, gays can be just as ignorant as anyone else.

We're "shady", "closeted", "promiscuous", "only looking for sex", and likely to dump you as soon was we find someone of the opposite sex. At least according to some in this thread, we are. Of course, there are hundreds of threads where these same posters complain about being discriminated against by straights, but for some reason its okay to hate us or to simply deny our existence.

Fortunately, not everyone is like this and I think there is progress being made. Unfortunately, there are still ignorant hold-outs, even here at DU.

[HeavensHell]

34. There are

a lot of hold outs.... Bisexual men should be with bisexual men, end of story... BTW this isn't the first time I've seen this brought up.. Bisexuals shouldn't make such a fuss about being bisexual... I get the feeling that most bisexual men think they are a step above gay men... Kinda like you thumb your nose at us cause we don't find ladies sexually appealing.. Well this is from personal experience, I don't think 100% of bisexual men are like this, but there are quite a few.

[bicentennial_baby]

35. You know what?

I think you're right, you are bitter. That's ok though, it's your deal and your business.

[last1standing]

46. I have an uncle who says the same thing about black people.

Welcome to his world of hate.

[bicentennial_baby]

54. we're making a fuss?

oh, give me a break...I don't even know what to say to this right now. But, who are you to say who should be with who? How progressive and open minded of you... :eyes:

[Sapphocrat]

Self-delete

For some weird reason, this didn't end up where I wanted it. Re-posting!

[Sapphocrat]

41. Well, think of it this way...

I can't relate to what it means to be bi, and you can't relate to what it means to be not bi. (And neither one of us really understands what it means to be straight.)

I get just as frustrated at being expected to be comfortable (in a romantic relationship) with bisexuality as I would think you must be when you get involved with a gay person who expects you to cut off all your hetero-oriented feelings. You just can't do that.

But the opposite is true, too: I've felt tons of pressure from bi women who have harangued me to just GET OVER the idea that they're as hot for men as they are for me. And I can't do that, either.

I'm sorry if you think I'm ignorant, or a hold-out. I never "held out" when it came to bi women, until I realized it just didn't work for me, romantically. I think that recognizing my own limitations -- rather than demanding the impossible of myself through sheer will (and when has mind ever really conquered emotion?) -- is progress.

Taking romance/sex out of the equation frees me up to support you, without being hung up on you.

Make sense?

P.S. Re "these same posters complain about being discriminated against by straights" -- Of course, we do. But all I want is for straights to give me equal rights, and treat me like a human being. I don't want any romantic involvement with hets! Well, OK, maybe Susan Sarandon... but only her! ;)

[last1standing]

48. Who you want to date isn't a problem.

Who you are willing to support for equal rights and treatment is. As you've stated that you support bisexuals, we have no problem. That's all we're looking for, too.

[TheWraith]

36. Speaking as an outside observer, so I could be completely wrong, but...

To some gay people, the idea of people who can "swing either way" might be felt as threatening because it would appear to undermine the idea that being gay is a state, rather than a choice. They perceive bisexuality as a threat to their identity and sense of "gayness," so they deride it and form the belief that it's an either/or issue.

[last1standing]

49. Many straight people use the same argument.

It's bigotry, ignorance, and insecurity for both groups.

[Smarmie Doofus]

50. In fact, you are completely right.

>>>>might be felt as threatening because it would appear to undermine the idea that being gay is a state, rather than a choice.>>>>

About the above anyway. Statistically, among men, predominate or exclusive homosexuality dwarfs bisexuality in terms of #s. For the vast majority of non-heteros, it's a 'state' , not a choice.

The existence of bisexuality tends to obscure that fact; it is a fact nonetheless.

[libnnc]

40. I used to be bi-phobic when I was younger

It was because I was so insecure--didn't like the thought of a gal dumping me for a guy. I was immature and myopic. (Not to mention my refusal to acknowledge my prior relationships with men)

Missed some fine opportunities. I regret that. I've grown up fortunately. :D

[Sapphocrat]

43. "Immature and myopic". Ouch.

I think I'd best back out of this thread.

[bicentennial_baby]

51. Why?

State how you feel, that's what I'm looking for here...I want to know everyone's true feelings, regardless of whether or not I agree with them. :)

:hug:

[cboy4]

56. I am fiercely protective of bisexual people.

Why wouldn't I be?

I know what it's like to be different and I know how painfully difficult the struggle for liberation is at times. Okay, most of the time.

For selfish reasons, I was years ago biphobic to a degree because I felt that people could think I could also be sexually attracted to women.

I know that's not possible, but my thoughts were, bisexual people were making my life more difficult being gay.

People were expecting me to just switch over to women so I could live a "regular" life.

:wtf: was I thinking? Well, I was a little younger, and definitely shy and insecure.

I think it would be interesting being bisexual, but I think it would also be difficult because I understand the stereotypes.

I think a lot of straight society thinks you're faking it one way or another, and that you have the ability to choose a permanent "team."

I've never been in a LTR with a bisexual person, so I'm not sure how I could or would handle such a situation.

I just have no known experience there.

But the bottom line is, I absolutely consider you and other ARE part of the family! No biphobia here! Hope that helps!

(I went to a lot of trouble on the lettering) ;) LOL!!

[bicentennial_baby]

57. Awwww, thank you!!

:hug: :loveya: :hug:

[cboy4]

58. Y.W.!

:hug: :loveya:

[Anarcho-Socialist]

59. Thanks for the sweet post!

:hug:

[cboy4]

60. Of course! My pleasure.

:hug:

[last1standing]

64. Great post. Thank you.

It means a lot to be accepted. I wish more people could understand that.

[cboy4]

68. I know it does and you're very welcome!

:)

[NMMNG]

63. From what I understand,

Some G/L feel that Bisexual individuals are "traitors" because they sleep with the opposite sex. Others think Bisexuals help bring more negative opinions down on our community because it gets straights thinking things like "see, they are promiscuous and will sleep with anybody" or "see, they can sleep with the opposite sex if they want to--it is really a choice".

[HeavensHell]

65. I'm not as bitter as yesterday

I am willing to fight for equal rights for bisexuals. You shouldn't be discriminated against for any reason, whether it be employment or housing, ect. But in terms of gay marriage and overall equality, bisexuals already sorta have equality. You can get married, raise a family, ect. I do have contempt tho. I don't like to see the jumping back and forth. I was talking to a friend last night about this. It comes down to what someone else posted on here; bisexuality makes it look like sexual orientation is a choice. I do apologize tho. I grouped every bisexual together based on my own experiences and that isn't right. :( Honestly; it's hard enough to keep a gay man when there is always some one better looking than you, more successful, ect. The sea isn't filled with very many fish to begin with so by being with a bisexual man it makes the chances greater that I will be tossed aside. I do have one question tho; You have a chance to live a "normal" life, get married, raise a family, escape prejudice ect. Why hmmmm why bother being on this side of the fence so to speak? Sorry for the lack of better wording. Its early.

[sui generis]

66. whether it's natural or choice should make no difference at all

plus, what some see as "the fence to jump" is a wide open field to others.

Who cares? If truly bisexual people can be out and open they will most likely have the most satisfying relationships with other bisexual people. In the meanwhile most of them have to live as circumspectly as anyone else who isn't neatly in one file folder or another.

Mostly people make themselves unhappy with dishonesty, doing it or experiencing it, whatever the reason for dishonesty. An openly bisexual person is not being dishonest, is not setting a false expectation and then violating it.

And if someone is being dishonest, be angry at them for being dishonest, not because of their choice of bed mate.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

69. I did not *choose* to be bisexual

I have an attraction for people who can be either gender. It's a nonsense to be forced to "pick" for the sake of society's wishes, whether it's for homophobes who think being gay is a choice or a delusion, or for biphobes who think being bisexual is a choice or a delusion.

I hope you understand that to be bisexual is no picnic. We are viewed with undeserved suspicion that is not reserved for straight or gay people. People assume that we're going to run off with a person of the opposite sex at the earliest opportunity. People will cheat, no matter what sexual orientation they are, I see no evidence that bisexuals are any more promiscuous than others. Sexual orientation is not the issue, the commitment and the personality of the person is the issue.

To be honest, being able to "choose" would make things easier, but I can't do that. No more than you can "choose" to be straight for heterosexual privilege.

So you have "contempt" for bisexuals. That's your problem, not ours.

[cboy4]

70. You have hurricane Katrina sized issues dude, as I'm sure you realize.

Fine, we understand that you're bi-phobic.

However, it's really getting tiresome reading the same old post after post from you about this issue.

You may think you're saying something different and being more sensible with each attempt, but you're not.

I'm not your psychologist, so I'm not going to start dissecting all of your generalizations and social issues.

Stop making excuses about not having enough of sleep and that it's early.

Just admit to yourself that you do not like bisexuals for all of the reasons you've listed, and then begin the process of working on fixing that prejudice if you're interested in becoming a better human being within the LGBTQ community.

[mongo]

85. Orientation isn't a choice

It's a continuum.

That's the bottom line -- and it scares the willies out of the religious right, and some gay folks too.

Finally putting my queer .02 in.

[HeavensHell]

86. I appear like a bigot

But I'm really not. I just don't understand it. But all of us are in the same boat in terms of fighting for rights. You are right, orientation isn't a choice. I thought a lot about it and even discussed it with a few friends, one who happens to be bisexual. She told me that it really sucks to be harassed by heterosexuals and then have your own community reject you. I didn't know what to say to her. I feel guilty to think the way I do. It'd be easy to sit here and type that I've changed my thought pattern but I haven't. I don't know how to. I'm open to discussing it further if anybody wants to and I'll drop the stereotyping when/if we chat. I just really don't understand. With gays, lesbians and heterosexuals, it's easy to know and figure out where every body is at, and what they want, however, in a bisexual relationship, at first, you're left guessing. Paranoia has a lot to do with it. Why invest into something when you feel like you'll be left behind? Why would some body want to get harassed and pushed back just to be with some one of the same sex? There are times, when I regret being gay. To know odds are I wont have a family and at the age of 30 or so, I get ostracized from the community. I've seen it happen hundreds of times. But that's a different topic for another day. I think at one point or another, we all feel like we don't fit in and that we are being shunned. I understand that this topic isn't really about that to an extent. I'd like to speak my mind, but it only comes across as bigoted so I'll leave it at this...... I don't hate bisexuals nor would sit by idly while some people harassed them. Every one of us has to fight the good fight together if we are ever going to completely achieve equality in this country.

[Ayesha]

67. My experiences

I briefly identified as bi during my coming out process. In college I was attracted to a couple of men, but nothing came of it. I still feel that those attractions were real on an emotional level, and somewhat real on a physical level, but I realized that I'm quite repelled by men's genitals (sorry guys, no offense meant) and that I bond emotionally much better with women. So for all intents and purposes, I'm a lesbian, and that's how I identify, but I'm not uncomfortable admitting to the occasional crush on a male celebrity, etc.

My partner actually dated a man after she figured out she was a lesbian and had even been with a woman. She was attracted to his personality and thought she should give him a chance, but of course it didn't work. Also at the time, her experience with the lesbian community was limited and she'd been told by a prejudiced therapist that she'd never find what she was looking for in the lesbian community! Thankfully she did, and it was me! :)

If I were single, I'm not sure if I'd date a bi person. The bi women I've known have all ended up with men, even those who've had long-term relationships with women in the past. However, if they did have a history of a LTR with a woman, and valued monogamy as I do, then I suppose I would. I just wouldn't want to be anybody's experiment or go into a relationship where a lifetime commitment was not a future possibility.

[chat_noir]

71. Another shout out to FReeper Dane

Dane, I know your obsession with the GLBT forum, but can you tear yourself away to visit the DU Editorial forum:

Methinks the Homophobe Doth Protest Too Much

Homophobes are in a tizzy again because Wal-mart is catering to gay customers. And in California, homophobic Republicans were jumping through the roof because Democrats wanted gay couples to be able to file joint state tax returns. This would gave aid and comfort, the homophobes said, to 'sexual deviants'.

There needs to be more public awareness that this sort of reaction is a pretty sure sign that the homophobe's own homosexual urges are unusually strong, and that the poor devil is having a lot of trouble trying to keep them down.

Men and women who are comfortably heterosexual aren't obsessed with stamping out homosexuality. Normal, non-neurotic people don't care what other people do in the privacy of their own homes. Normal heterosexual men don't spend their Saturday nights hanging around gay bars to beat up gays--they're out with women. It is by no means coincidental that so many homophobes are also misogynists. (emphasis mine)

A 1996 research study exposed two groups of men--one homophobic, the other tolerant--to sexually explicit heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videos, and while both groups got erections in response to the heterosexual and lesbian videos, only the homophobic men were aroused by the male homosexual ones--confirmation of the suspicion that homophobes are protesting too much.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-slater/methinks-th...


Mr. Slater seems to have spent some time over in FReeperville. They even have a HOMOSEXUALAGENDA ping list.

SCOTUS | ProLife | Terrorism | WOT | PreWarDocs | Aliens | HR4437 | BangList | Taxes | Homosexual Agenda | Corruption | Congress | Bush | Elections | Rally | WalterReed | TalkRadio | Donate to FR

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=homosexuala...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x231947

[cboy4]

76. Who is "FReeper Dane?" I don't get your post within this thread!

?????

[transeo]

72. Fear, on many levels

Fear that a bi person will leave them for a member of the opposite sex because it is just easier to have a hetero relationship and not deal with the crap that goes along with being homo.

Fear that the bi person is just experimenting and wasting your time.

Fear of utter humiliation if your partner leaves you for a member of the opposite sex.

Fear of being unable to compete with other potential partners because the homosexual does not offer all the "parts" the bisexual is into.

Of course all of these fears are rooted in low self-esteem, which is caused by the crappy way we're treated all the time. It is not right or justified, but that's my explanation.

[Placebo]

75. Hey, I think those fears are pretty justified!

:D

[swimmernsecretsea]

73. I've seen it and heard about it.

A close friend of mine is bisexual. He's very up front and honest about it. I've really appreciated his attitude about it, and it made me examine my own feelings about it. He's talked about his sexual history very openly with his friends, and although he isn't involved in a same-sex relationship and hasn't been for some time, not one person thinks of him as any different than they are.

On a purely personal level, I've noticed that it seems to link to an internalized homophobia that is quite pervasive. Everything from seeing personal ads where the advertiser claims to be "straight" or "bisexual" to men who look for "straight" or "bisexual" men because that's supposed to be sexier. I haven't gotten a chance to ask everyone, but what I have gotten is that guys who have that interest still have some residual fear of being labeled as gay. It's as if they don't want the identity because it'll make them automatically seem effeminate, or perverted, or not "normal." It's just self-hatred, and it's sad. I've heard some men say they like the idea of it, as if they're "converting" others into something forbidden, or luring them into something they won't admit to themselves. Now, hearing this, I'm reminded of the religious bigots that suggest gay people are trying to "recruit." What turns on someone sexually can range from the ridiculous to the unusual, and isn't always something we are able to make into something socially acceptable, but the only reason I can think of for someone to actively do this is that they haven't resolved their own feelings.

When I was much much younger, and very naive, I thought that the gay community wouldn't have the problems with prejudice that was found in mainstream society; race, religion, sex, ageism, etc. What a disappointment. In a way, it's understandable, because it illustrates the fact that we're just the same as everyone else. You'd think that encountering struggles in your own life would make you sympathetic. The only thing I can do is just shrug it off and say we all have a ways to go.

[Siyahamba]

74. I've seen more homophobia in the Bi community

Not saying that either -phobia is justified. We have enough people fighting us without fighting amongst each other.

[Jamastiene]

77. I have something I'd like to pipe in and say about this issue.

I have heard people, not necessarily anti-bi people say that bisexuality is a choice. I don't think it is. I see the whole attraction thing as less choice than just what happens whether the person is straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, transsexual, or just plain trysexual (I believe there are some of those).

Just to let you know, if you encounter it on DU, PM me and I'll do anything I can to back you up. I do know there is some outright phobia against us all on here, unfortunately. :scared:

One thing is for sure. I love ya. :hug:

[Boomer]

81. My partner is bi, although it's a moot issue now

My ex-partner was a lesbian, but had affairs with both a man and a woman during our decades-long relationship. They were both meaningless on an emotional level -- her way of acting out professional stresses in her life. I didn't find the affair with a woman any more or less acceptable than her affair with a man. Both were piss-poor ways to deal with her problems and showed a lack of respect for me.

My current partner (of 15 years, btw) has dated men and women throughout her life. She is attracted to people based on their personality and character, not on their sex or their skin color or their age or their body type. The traits that draw her attention don't happen to be deeply rooted in biology of any kind.

She also happens to be deeply loyal and monogamous. Who she has been attracted to, or involved with, in the past is irrelevant now that she's with me. ;) She currently describes herself as gay and as a lesbian because she's living with a woman. She'll readily admit to being bisexual if asked, but she is unequivocably gay/lesbian in her political sensibilities and identity.

I, on the other hand, have been sexually involved only with women and have never called myself anything other than gay since I was in my early 20s. Oddly enough, I find men very attractive physically (assuming they're in good shape); in fact, I find them even more attractive than women on that score, but I've never fallen in love with a man. I just never felt the slightest emotional twitch in their direction. It's women that turn my heart inside out and make me babble like an idiot when I've in loooovvve.

Perhaps that's why I'm not bi-phobic. At some level, I find both men and women physically attractive, even if I'm not interested in acting on that attraction with half of the equation. I don't find bi's threatening or puzzling or "risky." If you break an oath to commit to someone, my problem is with the break-up itself, not with whether I'm replaced by a man or another woman.

[foreigncorrespondent]

84. Ya know...

...the thing that has stood out to me the most in amongst the gays and lesbians who display biphobia has been they all say bi's can claim heterosexual privilege. Now that isn't me saying it, in fact I am a staunch supporter of bi's, just as much as I am with transsexuals, and everyone else in the very large LGBTIQQ community. But everyone I have spoken to during the last 8 years of my being out, they have all stated the same thing.

What to do about that is beyond me, but at least it might give you a starting point as to why biphobia exists in the first place?

[bicentennial_baby]

88. I understand that feeling...

Yes, as a Bi woman, I can easily assert heterosexual privilege if I want to, by being with a man....But, my situation is far more complicated than that...I'm in a closed polyamorous relationship with a man and a woman. I can be stigmatized for being a woman with another woman, and I can be stigmatized for being with both of them. All I know is that I'm happy and healthy, and that's what counts. :shrug:

[readmoreoften]

89. Good for you, I hope it works out.

Polyamorous relationships are difficult to maintain, but I think they can be rewarding. I'm in a monogamous relationship now, but its my first one ever.

[bicentennial_baby]

90. We just passed the 1 yr mark

So far, so good :)

thanks :pals:

[readmoreoften]

87. Negative reaction to bisexuals is not monolithic. Here's my assessment:

1) Some g/l people claim to be "bisexual" before accepting the reality that they will not be able to live the heterosexual lifestyle. While in this phase, struggling or even fearful gays and lesbians can cause a lot of pain to their g/l partners by being completely sexually and emotionally engrossed with them one moment, and then suddenly claim that they are "more into" straight sex, only to return the next day with tears in their eyes saying that they are running from commitment, before they run back to a straight partner again. These people are, indeed, usually not bisexual. They are struggling gay and lesbians who are having a hard time coming to terms with themselves. If someone has dealt with a self-hating G/L partner who ID'd as bisexual, they may have a knee-jerk reaction to someone who identifies as bisexual. Some thing if the person once WAS a self-hating G/L person who came to terms with themselves.

2) Some bisexual people are affectionally oriented to the opposite sex and sexually oriented towards the opposite sex, the same-sex, and/or transpeople. Many of these folks get married, have kids, and then have lovers on the side in a strictly sexual capacity. But when it comes time for the PTA meeting, they present as straight. And that's what some G/L people resent. Many G/L people feel fetishized when a swinging bisexual couple come around the gay bar looking for a night of excitement. (Not all, of course, but many.) But most of all, many gays and lesbians resent this type of bisexual because they are closeted and perceived as not having to deal with the consequences of homophobia. In otherwords, they still have "straight privilege". Whether that's fair or not, is another issue. But it is a sentiment I've heard again and again.

3) Some people in the queer community (my own partner, for example) don't like the term bisexual because it excludes transpeople and suggests a binary that limits the debate. For example, is a woman who is married to a bigendered man a bisexual or heterosexual? My partner is a butch genetic female who, in the future, may have top surgery and take testosterone. I am a lesbian now, if she transitions will I be still be lesbian, will I be straight, or will I be bisexual? Are bisexual people absolutely certain that they wouldn't be attracted to a transgendered person who considers themselves to be a third sex, or at least neither male nor female? And where do intersexed people fit in? For these reasons and more, many people involved in the LGBT community who are not G or L these days ID as "queer". I have a friend who was in a relationship with a butch for three years and now is involved with a feminine straight man. They are still very much a part of the queer community in my area.

4) Some people are just total assholes.