Let's face it we lost tonight

[dsc]

Huckabee would be a total disaster for gays. Obama has flirted with homophobes. To the extent that elections are about us and not the candidates, we lost. Neither of the candidates have necessarily won the race yet, but tonight was very bad for gays. I can only hope that if Obama becomes President he will no longer flirt with homophobes. We have had worse losses, but this is no picnic.

[aquart]

1. Hopefully, this wakes everybody up.

No sitting this election out.

[TheWraith]

2. Obama has not flirted with homophobes.

Unless by "flirted" you mean "supported by at least one person with gay-unfriendly views."

[dbackjon]

6. Not only did he flirt, he embraced a dangerous bigot that wants to kill gays.

[TheWraith]

16. Care to point out where that happened?

Oh right: you can't, because it didn't.

[ruggerson]

25. you claimed in another thread that McClurkin never even talked at the event

I gave you a link to the video that proved you wrong and you're such a coward, you can't even acknowledge it. So why are you still posting?

[ruggerson]

7. Hey why didn't you respond to the youtube video I posted for you

in the very long Obama needs to apologize thread?

[dsc]

8. McClurkin wasn't just some garden variety supporter

He emceed a fundraiser.

[TheWraith]

17. He didn't MC, he performed, and it was a concert, not a fundraiser. NT

[Maven]

18. Excuse me, he did emcee and he spoke for 30 minutes on Obama's dime.

You can even see some of his lovely antigay rhetoric on youtube.

[sjdnb]

19. That was a defining Obama moment for me ...

any candidate that will side with a bigot for political gain -- even if only for a moment, will never have my respect.

And, it was SO unnecessary - just politically convenient.

[Maven]

10. He legitimized him

and called every other person who agrees with him "good and moral."

I think "flirted" is too kind a word.

[readmoreoften]

35. What part of WE do you not understand! If you're not gay, why are you here baiting us?

Can't we talk with one another without heterosexual disruptors?

[hulklogan]

43. It's those militant heterosexuals again, trying to force their agenda on us n/t

[pnwmom]

55. He gave a prominent anti-gay preacher a prominent platform

on which -- in Obama's name -- to spew his views.

I'm hoping Obama learned from that mistake.

[babylonsister]

3. Baloney. Please. Peruse DU, or wiki, or somewhere. You haven't

lost a thing with Obama if you can get past one weekend. Or not. It depends on how terminally angry you want to be.

[mitchtv]

14. SC and MC Cluckn was politics

No grudge here. But the way he spoke to gays on the LOGO debate, and the way he behaves with the South Carolinians, are two entirely different things. they add up to one thing, "a typical politician". I'll never believe a word he says. Gays are used to being tossed overboard, but usually they wait until the convention. "Hope" indeed

[hulklogan]

33. Yeah, just get past it

Go sit in the back of the bus, keep your mouth shut, and maybe eventually you'll get your "basic set of rights" if you're a good happy homosexual. :eyes:

[readmoreoften]

36. Are you gay? Why are you baiting us in our the forum for our issues? Why can't we talk

amongst one another without nasty pro-Obama "get over it" heterosexuals cramming their candidate down our throats.

You want me to vote for your candidate in the general? Honey works better then nasty comments. I'm not getting over a gospel tour with FOUR HEADLINING HOMOPHOBES to swell up the antigay vote.

Maybe you should get over it. Your candidate made a decision. He chose his camp. My guess is he'll move closer towards an anti-gay stance in order to woo the fundie vote away from Huckabee in the general (if he makes it.)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. yeah we are all hysterically bitter

:eyes:

[Maat]

4. This PFLAGer is pretty down about this also ...

both Huck and Obama 'reached out' to the most bigoted human beings on earth.

:puke:

[dbackjon]

5. no doubt

Huckabee is a small step away from nazism, rounding us up.

Obama - I don't trust.

[libnnc]

9. If it's Obama vs. Huckleberry

I don't think I can stand them out Jeebusing each other.

I'm not very optimistic right now that Obama will resist the urge to Jesus duel with the GOP in the general election.

[Maven]

11. Resist the urge...he's already talking about "reconciling" faith and politics

He'll overcompensate on religion the same way Clinton overcompensated on defense.

[libnnc]

13. same shit different asshole

yet AGAIN...

and they still ask us for money.

Not one damn dime from me.

[Maven]

12. The best we can hope for under Obama is a welcome mat placed right in front of the closet.

As for Huckabee, I don't think he'll ultimately get the nomination but it's not like any of the other repukes are much better.

Once again, we'll be on our own to fight for small victories at the local and state levels, without much real support from the party. Meanwhile other Dems will tell us not to complain because of how much worse it could be under a Repub.

[mitchtv]

15. Yup

No payoff for gays this time around.

[sjdnb]

24. Uh, excuse me? "payoff"? Sorry, some of us see it as equality

No one is looking for a handout - just not to be treated like crap/second-class citizens.

[mitchtv]

58. I see any progress as a payoff for time invested

No one said handout.They are not the same. A Payoff for all our years of being told to wait
Not gonna happen with BO or MH

[sjdnb]

23. With last estimates putting the population of gay couples in

America at about 780,000 ... and, the voting population at somewhere between 175-180 million, what did you expect a well-funded, calculating, wanting to win politician to do?

If you're waiting for someone with principles to win, good luck with that. Edwards has a slim to none chance; Kucinich is not viable and Feingold didn't run; Clinton is same old same old; and, Gore isn't indicating he wants to jump into the muck at this time.

So, yeah, anyone hoping that the country would grow beyond it's ignorant prejudices and bigotry is gonna be disappointed.

[Maven]

26. Well, whatever they do, I hope they're not working with your numbers

We comprise a far greater percentage of the population than those figures suggest.

I see your point, but I think Edwards would be far more likely to spend political capital on us than the others.

[sjdnb]

29. So give me some numbers ... I'm open to updating the stats

Any solid data that might suggest that America might evolve beyond the ignorant prejudices of the 20th+ centuries is MORE THAN WELCOMED by me. I just haven't seen it.

[Maven]

31. Oh, I don't think the data can do that

I just meant "the numbers" regarding the proportion of GLBTs to the general population, which is estimated at 5 to 10%, depending on which study you look at.

In fact, I believe it's been shown that GLBTs vote in far greater numbers than the general population, and we're overwhelmingly Democratic (something like 9-10% of the Democratic electorate, IIRC). My point is simply that a Dem candidate would be unwise, statistically speaking, to dismiss us. Our problem is we forgive too easily and vote for them anyway because we're afraid of the alternative, so they take us for granted.

I happen to agree with readmoreoften, who suggests in another thread on this forum that if we don't have a candidate who fully supports our rights by 2012 we write in "GAY" on the ballot to get the point across. No more free rides from us.

[readmoreoften]

42. No more free rides from this gay. They have to work for my vote.

I'd rather write in I'M GAY I HAVE NO REPRESENTATION than vote for a pandering Dem.

[readmoreoften]

37. Yeah, good luck on getting solid data in an anti-gay nation. And do gays out of relationships count?

Or do we not exist until we're some kind of 'threat' through marriage?

[John Q. Citizen]

20. Yes, only Kucinich came out for full and equal rights for gays, all the rest are

seperate but equal shufflers, and thats on the Dem side.

I think anyone who claims to embrace human rights should be ashamed of supporting candidates in the priomary who are so politically cowardly they only support half-way watered down rights.

That's my opinion, anyway.

[mzmolly]

21. dsc, I think if Obama is elected, he'll be an instrument for change.

I am sorry that he campaigned with homophobes, but I don't think his win can be considered a loss just yet?

:hug:

[Tyo]

27. Maybe, but not for us

He doesn't support marriage equality and he's barely on board with civil unions. His "Awesome God" is not our pal and neither is he. He hangs with Fundies and theocrats and it's not to try to change their thinking it's to try get their votes. If character counts then Obama doesn't.

[sjdnb]

30. How is that? He pandered to the worst among us

for political purposes. This time it was a homophobe. Next time might be a war monger or a corporate lobbyist wanting to screw middle class Americans out of a fair wage paying job.

Fact is, compromising any principle, for political gain, just leads to more compromising for political gain -- at the expense of hard working, good-hearted, Americans - whether they be black/yellow/red/white/brown/multi-colored, male/female, gay/bi/hetero or ....

Ideals, Ideas, Policies, and Principles TRANSCEND it all in an intelligent, fair, advanced civilization.

[readmoreoften]

38. Thanks for the good vibes. But he won't support us. He threw us under the bus during the primary.

Imagine how bad it'll get during the general. This is bad times for us.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. i think the homophobic vote is more important to obama than the homosexual vote

the mcclurkin thing was callous. his explanations after that were worse.

[DarkTirade]

52. I hope you're right.

But I think most of us have kinda gotten used to expecting the worst. Especially in our politicians. :(

[davidinalameda]

22. I think this has cemented my support for Edwards

I really want to like Obama but I just can't

I'm not counting Hillary out but I think that Edwards will start pulling more people to him

[readmoreoften]

40. From your mouth to Obama's God's ears. /nt

[Tyo]

28. We're fucked again. Simple as that.n/t

[hulklogan]

32. Iowa, in the entire nominating process, means little

That said, I couldn't sit through Obama's allegedly "miraculous" speech tonight without thinking about McClurkin and how an Obama Administration would mean four years of no progress towards full equality for GLBT Americans.

And I'm tired of reading the smart-ass gloatings of the Obamanation.

How much longer will we rely on people like Obama for equality in this country? I'm about done with the political closet, frankly.

[cboy4]

34. Obama will continue to "flirt with homophobes" if it's once

again politically advantageous.

I could see him ditching his civil union position if the fundamentalists he panders to say that he owes them.

I ask Obama supporters why I shouldn't believe he'll betray the LGBT community again, and nobody can say anything other than "he won't."

It's a joke.

[readmoreoften]

39. He'll goes as far as he can to fuck us over. That much is clear. /nt

[readmoreoften]

41. It's sickening to hear about all this "hope". What hope? For who? Not for me. /nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

44. As usual, I'm in a muddle. Has either Clinton or Edwards....

.... *called* Obama on the McClurkin thing?

And if not, why not?

[eridani]

51. Because defending LGBT people never scores you any points with homophobes n/t

[DarkTirade]

53. And homophobes vote.

In ridiculously large numbers.

[eridani]

70. So do racists. That didn't stop LBJ and MKL, Jr from doing the right thing

Conservative Cinncinnati voted in 2004 to overturn its anti-gay law. Kerry stood with the black ministers who were anti-gay instead of pro-gay. This from the guy who voted against DOMA in an election year. You already know what that caution got him.

[DarkTirade]

71. Funny who looks better in the history books... :)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. well its because they are pretty shakey on glbt issues themselves.

not as glaringly as obama but its hardly like they want to treat us like first class citizens either

[readmoreoften]

62. Good point. But once again, I'm not asking for a perfect candidate.

I'm asking not to be thrown under the bus. Edwards will let us on the bus but he's telling straights he won't make us sit in the back, but if we happen to end up in the back, that's okay. Obama is telling us he'll let us on the bus, his supporters tell us he'll let us sit in the front. But many of us think he'll throw us off the bus if we don't let them beat on us when they get mad. He'll call it "old radical politics" and throw us off. I have no clue what to make of Hillary. I think Hillary will do whatever is expedient for Hillary at the moment.

[Smarmie Doofus]

63. The three of them are playing a game.

I can't quite manage to get as outraged at Obama as some here are.

The stone-cold silence of Clinton and Edwards reminds one of their lethal silence and acquiescence on IWR. They've made a calculation ( do they *ever* do anything but *calculate*?)that to call Obama on his consorting with sexual nazis will actually play to Obama's advantage. At least in SC.

I'm not sure how that makes them morally superior on this issue to Obama. Granted, Obama ( or his people) took the initiative in recruiting McClurkin and crew, but I'm thinking HRC would have done that or worse had she only thought of it first. She has been notably underwhelming in her advocacy GLBT issues in NY... which is a pretty safe state, I might add, in which to be gay-friendly. ( Edwards, it might be argued, took a greater risk representing NC; 'course he never ran ... maybe never intended to run... for reelection.)

The calculated silence of Clinton and Edwards actually bugs me more than Obama's ( apparent) cynicism. They actually *killed* people in Iraq. Maybe McClurkin and co. will prove lethal to someone, somewhere. Hard to imagine that happening on a scale comparable to the Iraq catastrophe. Maybe Obama would have voted for IWR had be in the US Senate; but he wasn't. AND he publically opposed it.

I see a more mixed picture here than everyone else. Maybe Edwards will speak up on Mclurkin as SC approaches. Hope so. Clinton is a lost cause, I'm afraid, as far as taking any political risk based on the pure ethics of the situation. It is not in her.

We'll see. I'm going to vote DEM in NOV no matter what they say between now and then. The barbarians are at the gate. One more presidential election victory for them and the SCOTUS is in their hands for the next 50 years and we are theirs.

[GodlessBiker]

45. We were going to lose unless Kucinich won. Kucinich did not win. End of story.

No other candidate has the guts to really support us.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. strangely enough i was going to post this today too

i think the glbt community were the biggest losers in iowa

[2beToby]

48. I'm beginning to hope a fundie will win.

4-8 years of atrocities might wake people up to our plight. Never mind the fact that it would totally screw over pretty much every GLBT person between ages 4-100 till it was over. At least after that, things might get better.

I'm not even sure how much I believe that. But I do know I've lost pretty much all hope for change in my lifetime, and I still have quite a while to go. It's unbelievable.

I might write in GAY just for the principle of the thing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. are you crazy? we had 8 years of a fundie already and people are just as stupid

now as they were then.

[mitchtv]

59. And they'll be delighted to tear up your ballot

defaced

[insleeforprez]

56. Huckabee's victory may be a victory for gays

If Huckabee wins the Republican nomination, the starkest differences between him and the Dem would be on social issues. As such, those social issues, such as homosexuality, would be in the focus of the national media. And I am *convinced* that the more people talk about gay issues, the more they will come to our side. That optimism hasn't left me yet.

[readmoreoften]

57. WOW you are optimistic! Actually, in 20 years it will be that way. But not now. /nt

[Cornus]

60. Wish I had your optimism. nt

[insleeforprez]

61. Must be the youth

[bigscott]

64. i agree

I spent some time over in GD trying to explain to the heteros why I am so bothered by the BOH pandering to the homophobes and I get ripped a new one by most members telling me to "get over it" , "BOH is an agent of change" and "there is not a homophobic bone in his body" blah blah blah.

Most straight people just don't get it. Why would I donate to or vote for a candidate that supports people who want me dead or relegated back into the closet?

Why don't the other candidates call him on it?? Other than DK, they are all doing the same thing - pandering to the millions of homophobes in this country.

To be honest, the past couple days reading DU, posting to DU and getting ripped by supposedly "progressive" people has really soured me on the whole DU thing. I see where others are taking a break and signing off for a while. Perhaps it is time to do the same?

I applaud the optimism of some on this board but if you believe homophobia is not alive and well in the USA then you are naive.

peace:pals:

[MuseRider]

65. I am so angry and so damned sorry

about this. I have been home sick so all I have done is sit around and read this crap and try to do something but it is not working. How is it that "liberals" do not understand this? How is it that they can overlook this blatant slap in the face and tell everyone to get over it? It is beyond my imagination why this is happening and I can't seem to help. Logic, emotion do not even begin to touch this in some people. Even telling them how dangerous something like this can be, like lighting a match, they don't want to even talk about it so it did not happen and your concerns are silly. It hurts and angers me so I can only imagine how you feel.

I am going back to bed. I looked in and was responded to and answered but the entire discussion just makes me sadder and sicker. Any ideas? I think I have spent everything I can here, my brain can't come up with anything else that might hit home with them.

Every time something like this comes up we lose a few more people. Good people. God, the entire thing is just tragic.

[dsc]

66. I hope you are feeling better soon

[MuseRider]

67. Thanks.

I rarely get this sick so when I do I get really whiny so please forgive me for even mentioning it. I am such a stoic most of the time but a bad cold like this makes me a horrible baby.

[dsc]

68. I can relate

for me it is my back. It can lay me up but good.

[ccharles000]

69. if

obama is the nominee i will vote for him only because he will be better than any repub.:hurts: