Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

We really don't count for much...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » GLBT Donate to DU
 
BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:14 AM
Original message
We really don't count for much...
I was an Edwards supporter for a variety of reasons, since he's dropped out, I've been spending time at both Obama and Hillary's websites, trying to find who I'd feel most comfortable supporting.

I've always been pretty aware of the fact that candidates in general tend to give alot of lip service to our issues, saying what they need to say to entice the pocketbooks to open and the proper levers to get pulled in the voting booth without any real commitment to our issues as GLBT citizens. And I've listened to plenty of "civil unions=good/marriage=bad" from all the contenders to know that this isn't really going to strike high on their agendas once the ballots are all tabulated.

But after researching, I've come to the conclusion that they really think we're that stupid, and it pisses me off to be played that way.

In spite of all the talk from all the candidates about ending Don't Ask, Don't Tell - damn if I can find it on their websites. Plenty of space for all the wonderful things they plan to do for veterans once elected, but nothing for me, a veteran who's career got ended when someone told.

In spite of all the happy words about repealing/changing DOMA - not one word again, I looked in the Families section, the Strengthening the Middle Class section, the Faith sections.

In spite of all the great rhetoric about civil rights and equality - I sure have a hard time finding GLBT information being included in any of those online issues pages. Are we not civil enough? Or maybe we've been too civil before.

And it dawned on me that the President isn't the one who would be introducing that sort of legislation in the first place - it would be a Representative or Senator (flashback to 8th grade civics class). And who do we have running this election? 2 sitting Senators, neither of which has introduced any legislation to rectify those issues they keep telling me they're so deeply concerned about and planning to fix once they get elected.

Now certainly, there are those who will tell me I should just suck it up and vote for anyone with a D behind their name because the one's with R are so much worse. After all, I shouldn't be such a "single issue" voter. I should take a look at all of the issues and make my decision based on that. So here is my recap of all the issues:


  • Taxes - my status as a gay man means that I'll pay about $4,000 more this year than if I was married)
  • Economy - I live in a state that is only attracting economic growth in one city, the one who happens to have the largest employer base of GLBT friendly companies in the SouthEast)
  • Healthcare - I am not eligble to be on my partner's health plan. And if I was, instead of him getting a tax break for it and paying for it with pretax dollars, he'd have to pay it with after tax dollars AND the gov't would impute the amount his employer paid on my behalf and my partner would have to pay taxes on that portion as well.
  • Social Security & Retirement - As it stands now, neither of us will be able to pass along whatever benefits we've accumulated through Social Security. And instead of a 401K passing on to me without a tax penalty if I recognized as a spouse, I get the joy having that income dumped on top of mine for the taxable year, pushing me into a higher bracket.
  • Civil Rights - Plenty of talk about equal access to all, regardless if woman or minority. But it rings pretty hollow to those of us in this country who are treated differently every single day. If I worked for someone else, I can still be fired for being gay. Imagine the uproar if I fired one of my employees for being black or a woman? But still perfectly legal to walk right up to someone and tell them they're fired for being a faggot or a dyke.
  • Faith - All the candidates are touting their personal faith and their commitment to strengthening the faith based communities. But that really only applies to those faiths that don't actively support equal treatment of all regardless of sexuality. Should my church provide their blessing/ritual/ceremony to support my commitment to Chris, those outside don't want it to have the same validity as when their church does the same for straight couples.
  • Strengthening Families - Yes, all the candidates are for families. Well, those that fit certain molds and societal norms. Because the family that came about when the gay couple chose to adopt the special needs child that no one else wanted doesn't need the same protections as the straight white couple down the street. Because I haven't seen any bills or amendments introduced by any of the candidates that would have cover the GLBT spouses or parents on an equal footing as everyone else. Or prevent states from discriminating based on that for adoption placements.
  • Immigration - Plenty of discussion about reforming our current immigration system, but haven't seen anything introduced by any of them that would allow a foreign born spouse of GLBT to be treated the same way as if they were actually married. Or even to recognize those who have been actually married in those countries progressive enough to allow that. But I do know couples who aren't living together because of these archaic rules as they wait for someone to finally clear all the hurdles that are only in place for certain people.
  • Poverty - I've seen plenty about the need to tackle the issues of poverty in this country, along with specific plans for certain people. But the concept of life partners where one dies and leaves the other in total poverty because the laws allow the deceased partner's family more rights to their combined assets than the GBLT spouse who survives (in spite of wills and all the other loopholes we have to jump through to try to protect ourselves) are still on the books in many states and I've seen no leadership from the Federal level to try to remedy that.

    So the next time someone wants to criticize me for being a "single issue" voter, please take a look at this list again. I have a hard time finding any part of the domestic policy agendas that don't treat me and other GLBT differently that other Americans based on who I love. And if you think that I'm unfairly bashing your chosen candidate, please show me where they have actually done something to address these issues (not just talk about it at the gay friendly fundraising events). You see, they are real issues to many of us, in a country where we're all supposed to be treated the same under the law. And if you can't understand that it really is different for some of us and can't bring yourself to say that we really do have a valid point and that it isn't right to treat some of us differently based on this one characteristic - please examine your own labels again. Perhaps it's time to stop referring to yourself as a Progressive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is absolutely superb. Highly recommended.
I hope others read this and recommend this. I want to see this on the Greatest Page.

I wish I had answers for you. Unfortunately, I don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Seconded
And beautifully put.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Just cross posted in GD:P (I must have a streak that loves pain)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. get ready for the incoming...
:hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I know, but I'd actually be very happy to be proven wrong
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I hope it doesn't turn into...
people on both sides doing the "Well, Bill Clinton gave us DADT and DOMA" and the "Obama is a homophobe with McClurkin" thing. Because it's partisans on both sides who really don't give a shit about us and GLBT issues. It's just scoring points.

This post needs to be read on its merits, period. And I hope it's treated as such.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cloudythescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Amen
And of course there is the danger, in some locales more than others, of hate crimes, which is VERY real.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. I checked her website
and I did find her position but it was hard to find. If you go to strengthening our democracy and then look under plans her LGBT issues link is there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I couldn't find it at all.
And hell, I support her. That's fucking ridiculous. It shouldn't be some arduous search just to find her positions on LGBT issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. It is bad to say the least
I literally stumbled upon it by playing around. At the least we should get a seperate tab.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. And it's not just one candidate or the other - you really have to hunt
for it on all the websites. It's more of the "cake and eat it too" syndrome. They want something up there so they can show us how for the community they are (bring in bucks and votes) and they dont' want to put it up front and center like so many things so that people don't hold it against them.

I'd love to email them both and say <u>"Hey, McCain is going to say you support the homosexual agenda no matter what you do, would it be too much for you to act like you do?"</u>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. It strikes me as ridiculous
After all, aside from marriage equality, our issues are actually popular.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cloudythescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Very important point -- huge range of popular issues not pursued by pols
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. here ya go
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
13. Great work
And thanks for doing it. I admire the calmness of the post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amimnoch Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. Sadly, I think they all believe it's political suicide support.
All of your points are GREAT!!!! I just don't see it changing anytime in the near future. We had one SUPER candidate with Kucinich, and it was his strong support for us, I just have no doubt played a part in his not making headway :(

These last 5 years have been rough for us. We've lost a lot of ground, and gained a little. Off the top of my head Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Kentucky, Georgia, Mississippi, Montana, Michigan, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah have all managed to pass these so called defense of marriage amendments to their state constitutions, and done it by voter turnout, not through the state legislature. The few states that have allowed gay marriage, or the civil unions have (as best as I can recall right offhand) all passed it through the state legislature (and most with quite a bit of resistance).

I am NOT at all saying that what our two front-runners are doing is the decent thing to do, but I can see why they do it. Of the two we have to choose from, I feel that Hillary would be our best bet to at least make some more headway, or at the very least, will be the candidate that allows the least further damage to us to occur. Sad way of putting it, I know, but when it comes to the next POTUS.. these are the cards we've been dealt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. beautiful! -- recommend -- and recommending you cross post this
in GD so people can see how equality is not a ''single issue'' -- and we are not ''single issues'' voters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
18. Agreed 100% and recommended
I believe that some people disparagingly refer to this as a "single issue" in order to try to downplay its importance to a truly progressive agenda.

I see people refer to "gay" rights as if these were somehow different from the rights of any other person. Somehow that makes it ok to tell GLBT people to "be patient" or to accept less than fully equal rights. I'm especially saddened to see posts stating that Democrats or other progressives should not push this issue because it will lose cross-over votes.

However, in my opinion, if the "single" issue is human rights and equal protection under the law, there is no cause more worthy of consideration and support than this one - no matter how it is framed.

As a progressive voter, if I had to pick a single cause out of all the issues being discussed in this or any other election, it would be equal protection under law of all our rights, and that means for EVERYONE.

Until we all stand together to protect and defend equal rights for everyone, none of us truly is living in a free or a just land.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Everybody in! Nobody out! is a great slogan
It not only applies to marriage equality and the same civil rights for everybody, but it works for universal health care as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. "Hush up and drink the Kool-Aid. Who else are you going to vote for, the Republicans?"
I've been raising the issues you posted about for years (but nowhere near as eloquently.) The subject line I gave above has been the only reaction I've gotten from most Democrats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Which is only slightly better than when we cost Kerry the election
Those were the days, huh?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Hey, it's 2nd class citizenship or reeducation camps. Be happy.
You filthy homo. :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. The comparison I use is
Getting shot in the head and left to die quickly, without hope (Republicans) or getting shot in the stomach and left to die a slow and lingering death, but with the hope that maybe -- just maybe -- someone will walk by before you die and get you to the hospital.

That really is how I see it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Don't forget when one of the partners dies
County comes in and reasses the property and gov't charges gift tax on the deceased half of the commonly owned property. OOps one more homeless gay senior. ( that's not mentioning the horror stories of homophobic family tossing bereaved gays into the street.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amimnoch Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Yes, there are quite a few amazingly sad stories out there.
Unless you are fortunate enough to live in one of the states that allows gay marriage, and civil unions (for some states) there's not much you can do to keep from getting raked over the coals by our government other than financial planning ahead.

If, like me, you aren't fortunate enough to live in those states I can't stress enough the importance of getting every piece of legal documentation the law does allow!

Living will: Gives you the right to decide for your beloved if they should be taken off of life support or not. Know your partners wishes. Avoid a Terry Schaivo fight with their family. Even if you are on good terms with your beloveds family.. sadly, too often, things can take an ugly turn.

Medical power of Attorney: VERY IMPORTANT piece of documentation! The medical power of attorney gives several benefits. First, it will allow you visitation rights to see your beloved should they be hospitalized, and the family, or hospital tries to pull that "family visitors only" bullshit. Second, should your love be so ill, or in a state where they cannot make their own medical decisions it gives you the right to make those decisions on their behalf. Of note here, you may have to fight some hospital administrations to make them enforce it though, if they start to dispute you over it, make sure you have your lawyer on speed dial!

Last will: This is the one most couples cover anyway (surprising how many forget the first two though), it's your husband/wife's wishes on how their estate should be settled should the worst happen.

I'd like to say that these documents, while legally drawn up, and notarized are iron clad ways to ensure that you and your love's wishes are carried out in these situations. They are not, they can be contested, and sometimes you will have to fight hard to get them enforced, but they are extremely important because with them, you have a pretty good fighting chance. without them, you are out in the cold should the family not wish to honor your relationship.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. You're forgetting the latest hobby
There are states that are now pursuing elimination of availability of all those documents because they set up relationships that are too much like marriage and they've got anti-gay marriage statements now in their state constitutions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Like Michigan.
Don't you just love it when they let the people of a state decide that they don't have to treat everyone EQUALLY Under The Law?

Vile, disgusting; they don't deserve their own freedom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. You know about the "gift tax" surprise, I see.
That's one of the little gut-wrenching blows that hits nearly every gay widow when they least expect it. I'm glad you pointed it out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thank you so much.
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 10:49 PM by Chovexani
You really broke it down. I just hope the poo flingers in GD-P will get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
26. Brillian-- Kicked and recommended
Lovely sentiment

Just right for those who argue their tolerance (and not one iota more)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
27. You make me feel better, thank you
I've been trying to make people understand my position. I keep getting told that if I don't vote for Mr. Obama or Ms. Clinton then I'm obviously for Mr. McCain. People don't seem to understand that my very life is where my vote goes. They'd rather I just vote for their candidate and then toddle back to my closet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
28. kick!
I am in the same position - getting screwed left and right, and no one seems to care.


The funny thing is, that at least here in Arizona, the majority don't share the same views as the party leadership. Gay marriage is not a make or break issue, and many support something (generally civil unions). Repealing DADT is not a big deal either - there is a lot of support for it, and opposition to repeal is lukewarm, at best. Sad that the party doesn't have any courage to lead on a civil rights issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. Excellent list. We really do seem to count for nothing when it comes down to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BillSam Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
30. If ever anyone gay or straight tells me that
we're totally accepted and should stop "whining" or what-have-you about discrimination or our rights I'll show them this.

Excellent post!

(I loved the line about candidates failing to address these issues but only talking about it "at gay-friendly fund raising events.")
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Word!
Isn't it funny the only times they ever talk about "gay issues" (which are really issues of FAIRNESS and EQUALITY for all citizens) is when they have their hat out at the LGBT event?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
littlebit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
31. Excellent post
My partner and I were the "token couple" at a Hillary event last month. We were taken out of the crowd and placed on stage so they could have a diverse group up there with her. Because of that I was able to ask her a question. Before I asked I bet my partner $10 that she would not directly answer it. This is what I said. Senator Clinton I supported your husband twice. I donated to his campaign and I did hours of volunteer work. The thanks I got was DADT and DOMA. If I do the same for you this time will you correct his mistakes. Her response was she would get rid of DODT and she side stepped the DOMA part. I want to believe that she will start to correct things. I really do. That is why I am supporting her. But honestly I don't know if Hillary or Obama will when it comes down to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » GLBT Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC