Furries, Love them or hate them?

[RedXIII]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_fandom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funny_animal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_animal

Linked to wikipedia, just to make sure no one googles it and gets the wrong idea about the fandom.

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. Some things are best left in fantasy land.

Like love with anthropomorphic animals. Sure, in a sci-fi smut story its great, but when people actually start putting on the costumes things go south in my opinion...

[RedXIII]

3. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Oh, are you telling me there's anti-furry bias on here? Are we freaking because it's weird and we don't understand it? Isn't that why... a lot of people are homophobic?




yes that is Ozy & Millie.

[napoleon_in_rags]

9. hehe. I don't know how serious you are.

If you're serious, I don't think there's anything wrong with it at all..I'm just talking about my personal preferences. An actual human in a costume wouldn't do it for me. Conceptually, in fantasy land, its a different story. I was really hot for cartoon characters a lot as a youth, so I kind of understand it. But if I tried to bring them down into this reality there appeal would be lost.

[zonmoy]

52. think it should remain fantasy too.

doesn't mean that if it was possible to date the beast or the male version of wolfsbane I wouldn't.

[BillSam]

2. I thought you meant furrybears,

hairy gay guys, which I love, being one of them myself.

Otherwise, I checked the links (at least the first) and while the statistics there suggest there are a lot of gay/bi "furries" -- people who love animal characters and dress up like them -- the whole thing sounds kind of stupid (if harmless), to me at least, unless it's an (unlikely) indication of bestialist tendencies. It sort of reminds me of people who used to go to Honeymooners conventions and dress up like Ralph Kramden and Alice and all that. I like The Honeymooners, but still -- get a life!

Yeah, I'm sure someone will want to attack me for saying this, but I think anyone over the age of eight who wants to dress up like a funny little animal might have maturity issues, but that's my opinion.

GLBT -F?

I don't think so.

And GLBT- B for bestiality. Let's hope never.

So I'm with Napoloen on this one.

[RedXIII]

4. ,,

{Quote}Yeah, I'm sure someone will want to attack me for saying this, but I think anyone over the age of eight who wants to dress up like a funny little animal might have maturity issues, but that's my opinion.{End Quote}


Well don't a lot of people dress up for halloween,including adults?

[BillSam]

7. Yes, but that's Halloween

and maybe for costume parties.

I'm not saying these furry people are evil or should be discriminated against, but comparing this to the gay movement is frankly a little offensive.

Look, if this is what you're into, so be it! Have fun! It doesn't bother me.

(I'm no snob and I'm still in touch with the "kid" in me. I occasionally read Justice League of America comic books and even watch the cartoon show, but, no, I've never dressed up as Batman or Green Lantern, even on Halloween, LOL!)

And don't any wise guys suggest Wonder Woman!

[DarkTirade]

19. ... not even Aquaman?

:P

[BillSam]

26. I'm definitely too hairy to be Aquaman

at least the Aquaman of old. Nowadays he has long hair, a beard, and who knows -- Maybe a lot of body hair as well?

I'll have to give this some thought...

[Jamastiene]

5. Mmmkay. NOW,

I've seen it all.

[Sandaasu]

6. Both?

I've done some socializing within that fandom, and I suppose like most groups, it's got a mix of good and bad. Lots of nice people, and some neat creative works, with some of both being simply too eccentric to take seriously. Whatever makes someone happy is fine, as long as they're not hurting others. I reserve the right to be baffled by such odd behavior though, and to respond to it with a hearty "WTF!?"

It is generally refreshing in that, within it, being GLBT is pretty much perfectly normal. It's nice that there's a community, that isn't GLBT themed in any way, where being queer isn't considered unusual at all. It's a shame that said community is so oddball in general though :P

[Remembrance]

8. Heard this b4

"Well some of them started dressing up as mice a bit ... and then when they'd got the costumes on they started ... squeaking."

[Cirque du So-What]

10. As long as nobody gets maimed or disfigured

I don't have a problem with ANY damn thing people want to do in privacy! I refuse to draw an artificial line and say, 'beyond this point you shall not pass.' My support for the GLBT communities would be somewhat hypocritical if I made an arbitrary decision not to support the right of ALL people to indulge their fantasies as they see fit.

BTW, I wouldn't have said a damn thing about a certain repub senator's diaper fetish if he hadn't been already been such a sanctimonious prick about others' sexuality. Being a public figure, however, his hypocrisy became fair game.

[mondo joe]

11. I have no feeling about them at all. But my dog hates 'em.

[foxeyes2]

12. Harmless Fun

Who cares as long as it is mutual fun and no one is getting hurt. It may be outside what turns me on but if we all liked the same thing life would be boring.

[GodlessBiker]

13. Oh, no. Please don't say it. LGBTIQ and now "F"?

[DarkTirade]

22. What does the I stand for?

[BillSam]

27. I = Intersexed

which is the new term for hermaphrodites. Intersexed people don't have both sexual organs (of men and women) as in story and legend but rather a combination of both. Parents generally choose what sex to define them as when they're young, but when they become older they can choose to define themselves as another sex, and surgery can help with this. With only a couple of hundred intersexed people in the US and maybe a couple thousand worldwide -- don't have statistics at hand -- some people might label it a medical condition as opposed to a true minority group. Whatever, they shouldn't be discriminated against, of course. Not an easy situation to be in. I'm sure.

Some might feel they're a sub-category of transsexual, only in the sense that they also get surgery and can "transition," in a way, from one sex to the other.

[DarkTirade]

33. Ah.

I knew the most recent term to describe the condition was 'ambiguous genitalia', but I didn't know what was used to describe someone with said condition.

[readmoreoften]

39. Your numbers on intersexed people are GROSSLY low.

Numbers are hard to pin down, particularly because intersexed people from the 1930s to the 1970s underwent reconstructive genital surgery soon after birth based on the length of their penises or clitorises. The nature of surgeries, until 1974, did not even have to be disclosed to parents. Until recently parents didn't often disclose the truth to their children.

According to Ann Fausto-Sterling, the magnitude of intersexual births is on the magnitude of 2-3 to 1000 births. That means there are tens of thousands of intersexed people in the US alone. There are 5 vaginoplasties and clitorectomies/clitoral recessions performed on AIS infants. And that's only ONE of many types of intersexuality. In case you don't know what that means: Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome is a condition where the body of an XY (male) does not have the ability to recognize any androgens whatsoever. The body converts all androgens to estrogen and so the male looks EXACTLY (if its full AIS) like a female. In fact, almost all AIS's consider themselves to be female. Many had no idea until they went to the doctor because they never menstruated.

An AIS female is not masculine looking at all. They tend to be tall, with soft perfect skin (acne comes from testosterone) full breasts, and a normal looking vagina that is "blind" in that it leads nowhere. They have testicles no ovaries, etc.. They can range from looking like your mom to looking like a supermodel. Surgically, doctors are still performing vaginoplasties on infants they recognize as AIS. The caretaker, usually the mother, is instructed to insert a dildo into the child to 'dilate' her vagina. The intersexed community is outraged about this absurdity as no little girl needs a functional vagina.

This is only ONE intersexed condition on the magnitude of 1 out of every 500 births. Out of all the various intersexed conditions only one is a medical emergency. All the others types are 'a social emergency'.

I just get pissed off that people make up numbers about how many intersexed people exist as if its some uberminority group, a few hundred people who we have to be 'politically correct' by including. Ironically, it's LGBT activists that include an "I". Many intersexed people have no interest in being included with LGBT people since they think we're perverts and they are merely people with medical conditions.

http://christielee.net/main2.htm
This intersexed woman actually was deemed a 'man' and her 7 year marriage was annulled due to same-sex marriage prohibitions. In San Antonio, she is considered a man and can only marry a woman. In Houston, she is considered a woman and can only marry a man.

[BillSam]

49. I actually got my numbers from

a web site dealing with intersexual issues.

You obviously came across a different web site.

It may be that the discrepancy has to do with the number of people who have not had surgery -- as you write about -- and are still in a state of flux?

Thanks for the info, but it leaves my head a whirling... so many variations to human sexuality.

I suppose there will be a big debate about whether "I" should really be included in LGBT.

But I think "f" for furries ain't gonna happen. But who knows?

[readmoreoften]

40. I don't know why we'd include furries in LGBT. There are straight furries.

:shrug:

[Chovexani]

14. I have no room to judge furries.

Considering some of my...quirks, and fandom interests. That said, furries are fucking funny, and anyone who says otherwise is lying or a furry with no sense of humor.

Did you ever see the vid of Christopher Judge from Stargate SG-1 at Dragoncon last year getting furries explained to him during the Stargate panel? It was comedy gold. I can't look for it cause I'm at work and unable to do streaming stuff but it's easily findable on YouTube.

(Also, the hilarity of someone with your screen name bringing up furries is priceless. I've seen doujinshi with Nanaki that made my soul hurt.)

[DarkTirade]

20. That video was hilarious.

"... What?"

...
.....
...

"... WHAT?!?!"

:rofl:

[Chovexani]

31. Where do they get the suits?!

:rofl:

I'm not sure what was funnier, his reaction or Michael Shanks warning the fan in the audience to STFU PLZKTHX, and then someone (Claudia Black, I think?) chiding Michael for starting the whole thing.

I love that show and everyone involved in it. :rofl:

[galledgoblin]

47. see the new movie yet?

it's on "very long wait" on my netflix list still :(

[Toasterlad]

15. Completely Indifferent.

As long as they take off their costumes when I break out the frat paddle, I'll give 'em a go. My fetish MUST supercede all others! :evilgrin:

[LostinVA]

16. Harmless fetish, but WTF does this have to do with the GLBT forum?

[Fran Kubelik]

17. this is the exactly right answer.

Thank you.

[RedXIII]

24. ,,,

you first need to know what they are,
which isn't what you think. You seem to believe that being furry means
sex with animals etc. It doesn't. Though some may do that sort of thing
(as do some non-furries, so not exactly a monopoly there), most don't.
Being furry is defined as a connection with animals. It can be having
totem animals, feeling kinship with animals, or feeling you have an
animal spirit, and other such things.

And as a note for further discussion, whatever you're trying to be, you
are being insulting if you say someone is a freak and sick, especially
if it's before you even know what that person/group is. Your research on
furry lifestyles may as well be thrown in the bin. You evidently didn't
research it very well. Furry is not another name for bestiality. It's an
entirely different concept.


Do:

keep an open mind.

Research.

Don'ts"

perpetuate stereotypes or myths.


And speaking as a gay man i have had been stereotped, like people saying that person is queer,get him out of the camp before he harms a kid.

So don't use ignorance as a excuse for anything.

BTW, Something awful, really is something awful.



And i know to that in Anime that there is a LGBT subculture known as Yaoi(i think i spelled it right.)

[LostinVA]

28. No, that ISN'T what I believe -- I've known what furries are for a long time

How does my post reflect that I don't? When the hell did I say someone was sick or a freak? I SAID IT WAS A HARMLESS FETISH.

"So don't use ignorance as a excuse for anything." I think you read the wrong post, since I didn't say ANYTHING you're accusing me of.

Go attack someone else with baseless accusation, okay?

[ThomCat]

25. That is absolutely the right question to ask.

I don't have any problem with furries. They're having fun their way, without anyone getting hurt in any way. It's cool and creative. Good for them.

I guess some of them would be LGBT. But this OP seems like it would be more appropriate for GD, not GLBT.

[LostinVA]

29. Your catsums remind me a little of anime furries

[meegbear]

18. You mean like bears?

Hmmmmm?

[readmoreoften]

37. No. Bears aren't furries.

But they are furry.

[DarkTirade]

21. I really don't care what other people do in their bedrooms

as long as its with actual people who are capable of giving consent.

[Moloch]

23. I'm not sure what you mean..

If its a fetish for animal costumes, then yes.. I find that to be extremely erotic.

[Creideiki]

30. Ummm...knock yourself out?

Have fun and all that...uh...what are you looking for? "Hooray for furries?"

[RedXIII]

32. And i think...

The dog from "The Family Guy" is a furry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Griffin

[readmoreoften]

34. No. Meg is a furry because she kissed Brian. Brian is a dog. I think that precludes furrydom.

Are we really having this conversation? Wow we are.

In that case, sally forth. Brian is only a furry if all dogs are furries. Most dogs, however also seem to be--what? skinnies?--- because they like to hump people's legs.

I'm firmly in the "skinnies" camp myself.

[RedXIII]

35. .,,

you first need to know what they are,
which isn't what you think. You seem to believe that being furry means
sex with animals etc. It doesn't. Though some may do that sort of thing
(as do some non-furries, so not exactly a monopoly there), most don't.
Being furry is defined as a connection with animals. It can be having
totem animals, feeling kinship with animals, or feeling you have an
animal spirit, and other such things.

And as a note for further discussion, whatever you're trying to be, you
are being insulting if you say someone is a freak and sick, especially
if it's before you even know what that person/group is. Your research on
furry lifestyles may as well be thrown in the bin. You evidently didn't
research it very well. Furry is not another name for bestiality. It's an
entirely different concept.


Do:

keep an open mind.

Research.

Don'ts"

perpetuate stereotypes or myths.


And speaking as a gay man i have had been stereotped, like people saying that person is queer,get him out of the camp before he harms a kid.

So don't use ignorance as a excuse for anything.

BTW, Something awful, really is something awful.



And i know to that in Anime that there is a LGBT subculture known as Yaoi(i think i spelled it right.

[readmoreoften]

36. Point out where I said furries are freaks or sick? Stop projecting please.

I refuse to justify a Family Guy joke. Refuse. A cartoon dog does not have a KINSHIP WITH ANIMALS. He's a fucking animal. Don't come around here insulting everyone.

I know plenty of people who feel kinship with animals, most of whom don't call themselves furries, but who see human beings as on a continuum of animal nature. I also know some people who are furries who are into sex--not with animals--but with other furries. I've never heard of a furry being a zoophile. Frankly, most of the furries I know--and, yeah, I do know furries--seem to feel more connected to animated animal characters than actual animals. As an ex-dominatrix I have kicked men in the balls for money, stuck horsetails up their asses, and all sorts of other things. People are into whatever they're into. Frankly I could give a shit. And yes I know that there are people who are asexual furries, who feel like they were meant to be animals or who wish they were animals or who wish they were cartoon animals. If they need help politically, pass me the petition and I'll sign.

But I really have no interest in subcultures. I'm more interested in what people have in common rather than how supposedly unique they are.

[RedXIII]

69. ..No Brian and his cousin Jasper are

No Brian and his cousin Jasper are Anthros, because Brian picks up the paper,drinks coffee and does other human stuff.




The term "anthro," short for "anthropomorph," means "made human." Brian walks on two legs, wears clothes, talks, drinks, even drives a car. Normal dogs don't do that. No other dogs on that show are like that, so there is a clear difference between Brian and "other dogs." So yes, Brian is an anthro character.

[xchrom]

38. oh why not. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. how do you feel about foot fetishists and why is this in the GLBT forum

[readmoreoften]

42. love your sig line.

:) :bounce:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

43. thanks. i acquired it during the spitzer fiasco

[Zuiderelle]

44. Can someone please move this to the Lounge?

[LostinVA]

46. I agree

[RedXIII]

45. Don't get me started on CSI Miami,,

Because that show made me so p*ssed off that i want to write the show to scold them!!!!

[mitchtv]

64. The furries were on CSI

LV not Miami, which is how I heard of them. Cleaning those costumes seemed a drag. To each his own , I suppose, but I prefer real animals.

[galledgoblin]

48. not really any different than other fantasy sexual preference

I don't think it really fits as an entire sexually protected group, just as cheerleader fetishes or nurse fetishes or firefighter fetishes don't fit. I don't have a problem with it though, and among other flamboyant displays I don't mind seeing it.

[undergroundpanther]

50. furry

I am feline and if anyone can't handle it,fuck'em. I'll give them my claw to their face if they get violent with me. What is an identity anyway?
http://www.unknownnews.net/040227a-panther.html

We get identities IMPOSED upon us from childhood on,from a sick society, and some may try to make due, others accept it with suffering, and some who are creative can't tolerate such stifling roles will invent their own damn identity.And no, my imagination is part of who I am and I will be who I am.I will be feline and create myself as I a see fit and I will be happy in the way that works for ME.

An so, if you do not like the idea a person sees them self as different or more than human, more than the biological determined DNA their parents gave them, what is the big deal to you? Are they ruining YOUR life? Are furries ruining your life by being different,and being whatever species they are and looking like it? Doesn't that complaint of fur bigots Sound familiar to every gay,trans and to people other than white male hets on earth??
http://www.unknownnews.net/040131d-up.html


Why hate the furries? If you are gay you are aware you are transgressing the silly heterosexual sex roles enforced by this sick culture, in order to be yourself and be what you are.So why have issues with furries for?? Furries are doing the same thing as any social transgressor sickened by the limits society imposes upon us all does.. If you are transgender you are transgressing the dual gender roles made up by this sick society, Furries are doing this transgressing in their own way, too.if you are furry you transgress the sickness of human centered anthropocentric bullshit,and build yourself an identity based upon the beings you love and relate to on a deep level..
I am transgender bi,asexual and furry. My identity is my own .

I find in my life,felines embody the noble qualities I admire. Things I do not often see in humans.So I wish to be like them because to me cats are the best friends there are, to me.My tattoos and feline appearance is anhomage to them,and my felineness is a spiritual,and very real thing to me..And I feel happy with my fur.. and I spit upon those who would rather me be something else than what I want to be.

Humanity often makes me sick inside.I do not like feeling sick. So I reject my society , my gender, the sexuality I was born in and the human species,I reject everything that I find to me is toxic and I reject all the stupid mental/emotional/physical cages that exist,did exist in me.Many of these traps existed to please someone else, a parent, the community,the school,or to make the insecure feel safe or to soothe the savage ego of the anthro-centric.. I admit it there is alot I hate about the human world,I hate this sick culture. I do not want to be part of it. And so, I walk away from it in my own way.And other furries find others who also walk beside them outside the wall.

Every time a person transgresses a popular cultural lie, there is backlash at them.. My soul is feline,and to walk among people as a human it hurts me just as much as being female body (modified partly thankfully) with a male mind hurts me,so I have had enough of bowing to the pain of social conformity,I am what I want to be.. Any controversy my fur creates does not matter to me anymore.


Any people who cannot handle the furries.. maybe you need to grow up and let people find what they are inside and quit the control shit. Nobody likes to be forced into a self that is false..

Everyone has a right to find what gives them happiness in this miserable world if it respects others consent. Truth is everyone has an identity, you can take what is given to you or build your own..Furries build their own,and in this world you would be wise to embrace beauty wherever you find it, for this world can be very cold ugly and sick. Even if the beauty exists mostly in the imaginal realm..it has a right to be.

[RedXIII]

53. I'm a furry too,

but i was just testing the waters. I'm both a furry and part of the GLBT Community.

[eShirl]

51. everything I know about furries, I learned from furries in Second Life

A lot of people here seem to be under the impression that "furry" is a sexual preference or fetish. It is first and foremost, an identity, a self-definition.

[undergroundpanther]

54. It irritates me to no end

How some people do not know how to separate sexual fetishes from an identity.Dammit they are stupid.
People are barely able to understand transgender is an SELF IDENTITY,not a damn fetish or 'illness'. And isn't that what we all want..the RIGHT to BE who we are? And to be ourselves and not get verbally and physically abused harassed and discriminated against for it?

That's what pisses me off about some of the more obtuse or selfish people in the GBLT conflict over fur,The stupid fools don't want to own up that GBLT is about having the freedom of being gay or trans as a self identity,and way of being and being respected as a legitimate identification as a equal to everyone even tho you are GBLT..It always WAS about POWER and EMPOWERMENT and defying the norms and cultural stupidity and bigotry in the fight for self actualization and the freedom to be who and what you are...

[Toasterlad]

59. Dude. No One's Saying You Can't Dress Up Like a Lion All You Want.

We just refuse to believe you ARE a lion. And frankly, I find it a little insulting that you're comparing transgendered people - who have REAL identity issues - with furries. Who have FANTASY identity issues.

In related news: goth kids? Not really vampires.

[undergroundpanther]

60. Toaster

I am trans and I am also furry."transfurred".
Despite your rude condescending comments,and ignorant assumptions I can say this from my own EXPERIENCES,I know how it feels to be BOTH things, Trans and furry at the same time.Suppressing and denying my furriness hurts like when I suppressed my trans genderedness .Some people STILL think being transgender is a fantasy or' mental illness' .

I have went through the hoops to get my surgeries done,been questioned and searched for"illness" ,and still bigot people think trans-people are fantasy obsessed,childish or crazy,regardless of what I say it is LIKE to be trans-gender myself.They dismiss it as a phase,as 'childish" as a "fantasy" or whatever kind of devaluing verbal viciousness they can slap on it..

I guess the shockingly similar reactions and even down to the same epithets that are said to furs ,also get heard when bigots react to trans-people.Crazy,fantasy,fetish,childish,insane,not real, ect.ect.ect. .The fact this phenomena is the same old shit on a different target seems to be lost on you.You don't GET it.And obviously you are too hostile to even TRY to get it..
Maybe YOU are the one who needs to grow up and learn .Fact is not everyone who has an alternate identity beyond your "norms"is so easily pigeonholed silenced and dismissed .

Trans-people fought hard for the right to be the person they ARE,on the outside and on the inside.Furs need to fight the same fights and furs face the same old bigoted verbal abuse. But I don't expect the more obtuse humans to get past their own asshole to see how similar things are for furs now that was and sometimes still is for trans-people.

Furs these days are smeared in the media, scandalized ,people look for any lurid things to exploit, and the bigots want to ridicule furs ,So they are treated like scapegoats.This is just like how trans-people were mistreated and scandalized a few years back,and sometimes are still are treated..THINK about it before you try to insult me again.

[LostinVA]

62. I'm all for transgendered rights -- plenty of DUers will back me up on this

But "furry" is a fetish. There's no legal discrimination against furries. You need to seek help, if you truly believe you are a cat.

[Ayesha]

55. Second Life

I enjoy hanging out at a place called Grendel's Children in SL. It's sort of furry, but focuses more on realistic looking and moving animals, and fantasy creatures such as dragons. I love to wear their avatars and find that I meet more interesting people when I appear as a dragon-wolf, or even something silly like a sloth. I feel a spiritual connection with animals, and my dogs are like my children. Part of me, I suppose, has an animal spirit. That said, I find the people who look human in SL but with animal heads, paws, and tails to be a bit off-putting. I'd be very willing to talk to them and be proven wrong, and I'd much rather hang out in a furry club than go anywhere near Goreans, but still, it's somewhat strange to me. And dressing in fur-suits, especially for sexual purposes, in real life - EXTREMELY disturbing. Team mascots are just NOT sexy!

[mondo joe]

56. I am completely neutral on fuuries. I don't see why this is on the GLBT board.

[undergroundpanther]

57. Diversity

VS Exclusion.
Trans-genders are treated as less valid by some gay people as if being trans was not valid.Having an animal identity is just as painful in many ways as being trans.A rainbow represents all colors,if the GBLT movement wants to get honest it needs to stand for all kinds of identities,that do not harm others or violate consent. Until it understands the need for INCLUSIVENESS and legitamate boundaries it will always ruin into conflict within it's own ranks.

[Toasterlad]

58. Sorry...Don't Buy It.

At the risk of being a bad gay man: it's not an "identity" or an "orientation". It's a fetish. Like BDSM or chubby chasers or rubber or fucking picnic tables. There's nothing WRONG with it, but it is no more than it is, and it has nothing more inherently to do with GLBT than any of those other fetishes.

[undergroundpanther]

61. Fine you disagree

But I do not and will not agree with you no matter how insulting you get. I think you are ignorant and your verbally abusive posts were really pathetic ,and you do not get it because you are an obtuse gay man..incapable of seeing beyond his little idealogical fence.
Oh well no cookie for you. Ugh.

[LostinVA]

63. You're part of the GLBT community, because you're transgendered

Not because you think you're a cat.

I love my cats, but they're not GLBT. They're cats. My dog isn't either, even if he does like to lick the feet of smaller dogs.

[mondo joe]

65. That's just dumb. You hate humans but want GLBT humans to embrace you and

your fetish?

If DIVERSITY was all it took to be a GLBT issue everything would be a GLBT issue - from Jainism to shoe fetish to Hot Wheels collecting.

Everyone deserves equal civil rights. But every minority isn't the same group.

[undergroundpanther]

66. this is what I do not get

I hate the psychopath,control freak,elitist,bully humans,I said there are exceptions to my hatred for humans before.I said there are good people out there ok?

I also said I didn't literally think I was a cat.You missed that one too, I see. Seems you'd rather believe I think I am, literally feline so you can feel superior or something by calling me crazy. you are using selective perception about what I am saying here because you are fucking defensive.

I said all this in my posts before. but you obviously ignored that point because it didn't fit in with the false image you and other hostile people are trying to fit me into.

My feline identity thing(and the body mods I am working on) comes from the same motives,it feels the same way INSIDE me.It actually has to do with feeling complete, making my body match my spirit,which is a "normal" process for a trans-gender person to struggle with, including this queer male androgyny feline..

And every trans-person sufferers because they need their inside self to match their outside body to feel comfortable in their own skin to be complete.My feliness is like my transgendered, it is my path to self wholeness,you are degrading and calling 'crazy'. And no you can't try to tell me how I feel by saying how is my feline identity so different than my trans identity when both struggles for me have to do with matching up my spirit inside my body to the body outside to create a sense of wholeness?? IT ISN'T ANY DIFFERENT.That's my truth.

Some GBLT's apparently are bigots about body mods,and some think body mod is only a fetish,for some it might be, but for me it is as valid and important to me being whole as getting my male chest reconstruction done .That is what you seem to not get.


What this all boils down to is this is about empowerment,power,and the right to identity and a person's the path to finding completeness.

Some gay guys will never be complete faking a hetero life with a woman .So to be complete he has to admit he is gay,and find a man to love.

Likewise a transgender to be complete has to understand what being trans means choose if s/he needs to go through body modifications like gender surgeries and/or hormones ,Going until the trans-person has found a comfortable state of mind and completion... So You must admit an aspect of being GBLT is about self determination, as in YOUR and MY right to have an identity of our own be honest to it,and for it to be reflected in the way we are?

Or is this all a club of a few (gay,bi,lesbians and trans-genders only) acceptable types of people fighting to be called'normal' by the powers that be and nothing more?

You and other hostile snarky people here do not get the point I am making about self identity,freedom and completion and how vital it is.So to call someones path to completion (body mods)crazy or not valid is very stigmatizing,and in the past these sorts of slurs were aimed at gays and still are..And trans-people like it or not ARE body mods, they modify their body outside to match who they are inside,to feel complete.Like I do and am doing but,with a feline twist..

Instead you have made the other point I wasn't even intending to make very clear, that when people make an identity that is out of the mainstream to feel complete and if it gets politicized, the in group basically becomes an exclusionary body,a limit and anyone else,trans or not who may try to expand the definition, or relate other things of what self can be to it,the questioner will get marginalized because of the desire to be more diverse and accepting than the status quo can handle or accept...And some gay people apparently haven't learned how to step out of kissing up to the concept the lie called normalcy yet,desperate to be seen as normal by the holders of power in this pathological society.

Some haven't really grown past the colonialist mindset in the way of reacting and excluding certain people from being included in the fight for self determination identity and being who they are . I am part of GBLT because I am trans, Bi (the excluded parts of me are the asexual,and feline) And while people get that understanding for the need to be complete and whole, but if a person adds in an element that makes some in the in group feel"creepy" they go ape-shit and start splitting hairs as if their entire movement would lose power if it dared expand the focus to understand what the search for self completion might entail .That's what the culturally dominating groups that tell everyone else who to be or not be want people to NOT have,completion,happiness. That is why being gay,,a feline,body mods,and trans issues are an issue at all in this world.It has to do with self empowerment.

I am asking where does sexual preferences end and the topic of self- identity begin. Where does identity begin and end,and why are some identities ok and others not, can you tell or do you rely on consensus or some other person to tell you?
What is normal? Why do people insist on being "normal? And ever wonder whom is defining it for everyone else?



Where does desire come from,why are some desires called crazy when ones that seem pretty unpleasant or intolerable to me,are called normal? Who decides which of these things is acceptable and sees it fit to impose it on others in an unofficial way,what are they protecting ? And why do people follow it? What are they scared of?
I guess you never ASKED those questions.

Is it a dread of losing power,voice, status and acceptance from the dominator class the ones who use norms to keep everyone too scared of who they are to stop covering it up..? So why do GBLT after all we have been through in fighting to be gay identified and not harmed act like a exclusive dominating class to the various scapegoats within our own if they think they've grown past it?

These limits are going to become more problematic in the GBLT community ,if you seek liberation under the auspices of the dominator class's blessings.

I guess my topic was too deep for you to comprehend because the furriness is all you could see.Sad. Still refused to relate because maybe some people are in denial about how important having a right to form an honest self- identity,and the denial of this plays into the culture of power and powerlessness within issues and the political and social power structures.

Fur identity (not the fetishists)challenge people to accept they are not all that special or divine among the animals in this planet we all share as much as our culture's engineers want us to believe and behave.To some being equated with animals upsets their ego.

But some sociologists are asking why are animals seen as less than people?...Why can't GBLT's ask these things about animal/human identities too?

Leslie Irvine
University of Colorado at Boulder, USA

The question of animal selves: Implications for sociological knowledge and practice

The question of whether sociologists should investigate the subjective experience of non-human others arises regularly in discussions of research on animals. Recent criticism of this research agenda as speculative and therefore unproductive is examined and found wanting. Ample evidence indicates that animals have the capacity to see themselves as objects, which meets sociological criteria for self hood. Resistance to this possibility highlights the discipline's entrenched anthropocentric rather than lack of evidence. Sociological study of the moral status of animals, based on the presence of the self, is warranted because our treatment of animals is connected with numerous "mainstream" sociological issues. As knowledge has brought other forms of oppression to light, it has also helped to challenge and transform oppressive conditions. Consequently, sociologists have an obligation to challenge species-ism as part of a larger system of oppression.

http://www.qualitativesociologyreview.org/ENG/Volume6/abstracts.php

[mondo joe]

68. Be whatever you want to be. It's not a GLBT issue. NT

[booley]

67. Why must i do either?

Yes I know about the fetish and I know people into it.

And the fact that they like doing that doesn't change my opinion of any of these people one whit.

Really, why are we supposed to care about what other people do if they aren't harming anyone?

In fact wasn't' that the point of the sexual revolution and GLBT civil rights? That as long as people weren't getting harmed, society had no place judging other's sexual interests?

[sui generis]

70. more colors in the rainbow than that, I hope.

Love and Hate? How about accept.

Not my deal, but as an example I accept and tolerate straight people. If I can accept them, then it stands to reason I can accept anything.

(snicker)

[undergroundpanther]

72. Adding more colors to a rainbow, I like that concept..

because I do accept you as you are.We all are part of it all.

[Ellen Forradalom]

71. No opinion

beyond not my thang.