Scientific findings on gay brain will send bigots to hell

[Traps]

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/06/26/scientific-findings-on-gay-brain-will-send-bigots-to-hell/

The findings of scientists that the brains of gay men and hetro-females are almost the same is going to put many religious bigots on the back foot.

[havocmom]

1. Read a report, years ago - pre internet for me, about the corpus callosum differences

Seems women and homosexual men have much larger corpus callosum structures than heterosexual men. That structure enables left and right sides of brain to communicate.

Draw your own conclusion as to how a larger corpus callosum may affect thinking. ;) It was suggested that the larger structure for merging info from left and right might be the physical reason for the oft mentioned 'women's intutuion'. Researchers pondered that better communication between the left and right hemispheres may make it easier to process information without really being aware of what is going on, then coming to a conclusion from ? gee, where did that notion come from?

It was in interesting read. When I have time this weekend, I will try to find anything about it online.

Yeah, there IS a difference in physical structure and the bigot fundies can't just lay on hands and 'heal' something which ain't broken to begin with.

[Arctic Dave]

2. Their hatred was never based on reason to begin with,

this report will do nothing to decrease their rabidness, unfortunately.

[readmoreoften]

4. Read Sexing the Body by microbiologist Ann Fausto Sterling instead

The Gay Brain stuff is almost always really really bad politicized science. Some of this stuff is being pushed by very dangerous people: right-wing scientists who think homosexuality is a genetic disorder. Some of these people are at Yale and MIT.

One group is called The Human Biodiversity Group. They also propose that there are genetic differences among racial groups and that these attribute to social performance. They are now a private email list. When their membership list was exposed about 7 years ago they went underground. Some of the names on the list would shock you. At least they shocked me.

They were involved in the 'gay brother' story as well and they are the root of the articles on the possibility of the 'gay gene'.

Historically, science has been more brutal to gay people than fundies. And I can't stand fundies.

[Traps]

5. Look further

Isn't the point that this time science is showing that this kind of bigotry is not only wrong scientifically, biblically and in terms of any other kind of sick test applied by bigots?

Although I'm a sraight I hate bigotry of any kind and this affords an opportunty to shove all their "theories" right down their throats.

[readmoreoften]

6. No. Because some scientists take this data to mean that

gay men are genetically and mentally inferior--they "think" like women, have smaller brains, etc. By the way--don't assume that this means they'll go easy on lesbians. Lesbians won't get "masculine minds" they'll get stubby thumbs and course skin.

This sort of testing is actually a reversal to 19th century ideas.

The brain is extremely complicated and these are often one-time experiments that reverse themselves the way "caffeine is good for you" one day and "caffeine is bad for you" the next.

But readers walk away with these simple ideas that gay men are innately feminine-brained and that lesbians are flooded with testosterone at birth. This kind of science goes against our lived experience of diversity within the community.

Remember 50-60 years ago scientists used to lobotomize LGBT people, shoot us up full of hormones, and do all sorts of psychological testing on lesbians in jail to see if they had "vaginal orgasms" or "clitoral orgasms" (by the way--they were in jail for being lesbians.)

There are definitely biases in science and popularized science is often sensationalized.

[Traps]

7. I take your point

BUT (always is) it flies in the face of their preconceived ideas.

As I said my starting point is this : regardless of whether it is "by choice" or biological the only perversion is the hatred of gays or anyone else because they ae diferent to you.

I celebrate the diversity of the species - bigotry is a sickness.

[readmoreoften]

8. Point well taken.

Unfortunately no amount of knowledge or lack of knowledge will take away a deep hatred. I have met many people who were ignorant and bigoted about gay people who have completely changed over the years. Not hateful just ignorant. Then they got to know gay people and they weren't ignorant anymore.

But hateful people--the real bitter people like Sally Kern, people who say things like "gays are a cancer" and "gays are more of a threat to the US than terrorism"--those people do not change. No matter how much information you throw their way. Unfortunately, there are scientists like that too.

[papapi]

3. How many here are left-handed and gay?

[Ayesha]

9. Oh certainly

Right wingers are big believers in science. Just look at their strong beliefs in evolution, global warming, and stem cell research! I'm SURE this fact-based information will bring them right over to our side.

[Meeker Morgan]

10. What does science have to do with who Big Daddy said we can fuck?

Sorry folks. This is scientifically interesting but will have exactly zero effect on religious bigots. It won't even slow down their rhetoric.

[Irishonly]

11. What bothers me about the religious bigots

is they ignore the NT, quote the OT to justify their racist, bigoted attitudes. There are also many problems with the NT since one man decided which books formulated the NT and left out many of the (can't think of the word right now) texts like Thomas. Mary Magdalene and Judas out. Jesus gave a new commandment that trumped the OT and they choose to ignore it. I have never met a group of people that can try to act so pious and think so evil.

[Traps]

12. Must be nice

Must be nice for them to always be right. Ignorant people are always right because they don't allow little things like facts or science to disprove their theories.

Bigots will always be bigots.

[WillParkinson]

13. You're too optimistic...

Bigots aren't bigots because they lack the scientfic information. They're bigots because they're vile, nasty people. You can present all the evidence you want to them and all you'll get is bending of the truth and blatant, outright lies.

[Traps]

14. Nurture?

I've always brought my kids up to reject everything from racism, homophobia, anti-semitism, islamophobia onwards.

I believe a culture of overall tolerance is the only way to achieve progress, If you condone one form of hatred the rest follow.

Will I take your point about optism but unless you keep pounding the door you won't get an answer.

[sui generis]

15. No, I have the brain of an adult male

and his body too, and I'm not giving them back!

Seriously, there is nothing in my mental makeup that is even remotely feminine or effeminate at all.

The problem I have with the study is that it doesn't say how many "straight" men have morphological similarities to women's brains, or whether they are even successful at identifying anonymous brains as gay using brain morphology alone.

And what about this single use monolithic catch all definition of "gay"? That's flawed too.

[Traps]

16. Sui

Won't you explain that last sentence.

Why is it flawed?

[sui generis]

17. poor choice of words

Here's the context (in my mind):

To the rest of the world "gay" usually refers to males, and usually is associated with effeminate mannerisms. Ask any stand up comic to fire off a few lines "like a gay man" and he'll be lisping and prancing.

I don't have a problem with mannerisms of any kind, but the idea to the outside world that we are just one thing is what makes the idea of "gay" brains flawed for me. I'm not sure they understand the richness and variety of us, and when they postulate that they should be looking for some morphology to explain why those effeminate gay men are like women I question the science.

Undeniably there are a higher number of people with focus on gender identification in our population, but it's a small facet of who we are. Before a scientist says gay male brains are like the brains of women, I want a scientific analysis of what constitutes "gay" behavior. If it is just attraction to the same gender then I know a lot of straight men with gay brains. :P

[Traps]

18. It's true

Stereotyping does tend to put everyone in the same group and ignore the enormous divesity that exists.

Problem is that if you start splintering your definitions you lose more than you win.