muslims attack Gays

[MullenBank]

I used to think this couldn't happen here. Then I figured if it did it would be christians. I think I see more clearly now. I figure it's the devout that are attacking, right? I mean are the casual muslims in on this riot action too? The more I learn about islam and -- the devout followers of the pedo moho the happier i am to be an american atheist. Or atheist in america. The is no god. Get over it. Unhappy now? In pain? It wont get better after death. You just cease. Work for change in the present.

SARAJEVO (AFP) — Organizers of Bosnia's first-ever gay rights festival said on Thursday they were moving the event underground the day after participants were attacked by hooligans at the opening ceremony.
...

Eight people, including two journalists and a policeman, were injured on Wednesday in attacks by dozens of anti-gay protesters following the opening ceremony in downtown Sarajevo, where posters declaring "Death to Homos" have appeared in recent days.

A heavy police deployment prevented the participants from being attacked as they were leaving the ceremony in the Academy of Fine Arts, but the violence spread to nearby streets.

Organizers said that the attackers even dragged some people from vehicles to beat them.

Association Q provoked fury with the announcement that they were organizing the four-day festival, particularly upsetting the Muslim majority as it is happening during the holy month of Ramadan.


link: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gvATxspTDsdcIWTjUr7fusfnsSMg

Link to reuters:http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LO425322.htm

[Clovis Sangrail]

1. fail /nt

[MullenBank]

4. question

BTW- love the graphic. But what do you mean by "fail"?

[Clovis Sangrail]

11. I mean 'fail' in your attempt to dehumanize "muslims" as a whole

Christians are just as anti gay as muslims.

Don't believe me?
Come on down to a fundy baptist gathering in the south wearing a "queer and proud" shirt.

You didn't point out any particular religion sponsored violence against gays.. you showed a predominantly muslim area that was anti-gay.
The same falacious conclusion can be drawn about Xtians in general by even a cursory look.

Who flies the planes that drop bombs and kill children in Iraq?
mostly Xtians

Who flew the planes that fire bombed Dresden?
mostly Xtians

Who were the guards at the concentration camps?
mostly Xtians

That doesn't mean all Xtians are bad... just that some are inhuman.
Just like some muslims are inhuman... or some hindus are inhuman... or whoever.

Every group has its idiots and assholes.
Just as every group has people that gobble up its propaganda without asking any questions. ;)

[MullenBank]

24. Cannibals are quakers are nazis are greeks, eh?

The bad muslims are beating the nice gays.

The nice gay men sometimes touch each other sexually and apparently the muslims believe in a sky god that disapproves of such touching. Moreover, the muslim belief in a harsh judgmental sky god appears to be widespread among practicing muslims. The muslims are showing their affirmation of the harsh judgmental sky god and their disapproval of gay men loving one another by beating the nice gay men until their gay bones are broken, their skin deeply bruised and their faces bloodied.

Just think of this news as a kind of movie trailer-- a sort of coming to a theater near you thing.

And I don't want that movie in my neighborhood theater. 'zat help?

[Clovis Sangrail]

31. why'd you change the title?

if you're going to just cut and paste go all the way and keep the same post title

When you change the title it helps the terrorists ;)

[MullenBank]

32. because

in this instance, one size fits all. And I changed the header 'cause i'm creative that way.

[Clovis Sangrail]

36. terrorist lover

:P

[Darwins Doberman]

2. I'm about to be much fairer to Christians and Jews than they'd ever be to an Atheist, however

if a Christian or Jewish fundamentalist disagrees with your point of view or politics, they'll protest, they'll whine like little children, but there is less a likelihood that they're going to resort to violence to silence what they don't like. Islam uses violence or the threat of it to attempt to silence people who dare criticize the faith.

For the relativists let's take a look at some scenarios:

- Danish newspaper prints cartoons of Mohammed, riots lead to the deaths of several individual. In New York City someone puts the crucifix in a jar of piss, nobody dies as a result. Someone uses feces when painting the mythical mother of the mythical Jesus, nobody dies as a result.

- Salman Rushdie writes a book involving merely a hallucination involving Mohammed, a religious leader orders his death. Family Guy, South Park, stand up comics, etc. all mock the mythical Jesus, and nobody orders any deaths, the Christians merely bitch and moan.

- South Park has an episode where in the end Jesus craps on Bush, a pregnant American, etc. They also have Mohammed simply hand a "salmon helmet" to Peter Griffin from Family Guy. One of these scenes made it to air, one of these scenes didn't because they were genuinely afraid of the reaction from that religion's followers. I'll let anyone take a guess which didn't (hint: the founder of this faith flew to heaven on a camel).

[keepCAblue]

3. Bombing abortion clinics? Yeah, those Christians are so non-violent. n/t

[MullenBank]

5. Yes

Yes they are.

Christians aren't flying planes into buildings, oppressing women, ya know what-- forget it! If you cannot see the difference you are beyond help. pick up end of faith or letters to a christian nation both by sam harris. he will lead you to the light.

[Darwins Doberman]

8. Are you implying that... there's a problem inherrent in the teachings of a bedouin pedophile

who couldn't read, write, or help himself when the opportunity to enslave, rape, murder, or steal whenever the chance was made available to engage in such horrors?

How can you condemn those actions of Muslims without first conceding that the fat criminal Jerry Falwell was an asshole?!

[MullenBank]

9. OK

Jerry's an asshole. Happy now?

Yes there is a problem with that pedo's credo. It lends itself to violence against women gays jews .. well anyone who isn't muslim.

[Zuiderelle]

19. Bombing an abortion clinic is ok with you? And Christians aren't oppressing women? WTF?

What planet are you from? Have you listened to the Pope?

[MullenBank]

21. I live here, in America.

Land of the free. And Islam is demonstrably more violent in the last 50 years than than Christianity in the last 200. And, in this country at least, Christians are not oppressing women. Really-- cite me a couple of examples-- dare ya.

Do you truly believe all religions are equally benevolent, all cultures equally effective in advancing the lives of the folks that share that culture.

If so, are you telling us all that nazis are quakers are cannibals are carpenters?

[Zuiderelle]

26. What I think is that extremists of any stripe are the issue, and not some monolithic group of people

It's wrong to judge everyone by a few. That's simple.

You bringing nazis and cannibals into it is disingenuous. Like bringing the KKK into it. Members of the KKK consider themselves Christian.

[keepCAblue]

41. I think it is clear from their newness to DU

that Mullenbank and Darwin's Doberman are likely here on a mission...one that is in keeping with the Xtian Wrong's / McCain campaign tactics, as mentioned in another DU post, below:

On Friday, September 26, the end of a week in which thousands of copies of Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West -- the fear-mongering, anti-Muslim documentary being distributed by the millions in swing states via DVDs inserted in major newspapers and through the U.S. mail -- were distributed by mail in Ohio...This, apparently, is what the scare tactic political campaigning of John McCain's supporters has led to -- Americans perpetrating a terrorist attack against innocent children on American soil.

No one will dispute the atrocities some religions carry out against gays and women, but to paint Xtians as blameless in this same regard is clearly a biased position, one which alludes to a suspect motive on the part of the O.P.

[MullenBank]

46. Oh I've chosen my words carefully persian....

The op was not about christians acting out because their actions were informed by the book their sky god dictated. I posted an an article about muslims acting out because their actions were informed by the book their sky god dictated.

Additionally my concern is not that people are bigots-- you can almost always rise above that-- but that an active minority of one of the world's largest frauds, oops, I mean religions, sincerely believes god is telling them to slaughter infidels.

What's so wrong about noticing this? About expressing some concern? The particular religious activists referenced in the OP loath gays, fear change, are frightened of science and as for women lets just say that they simultaneously oppress women while being terrified of them.

At the moment radical islam has the market cornered on depth and breadth of religiously inspired violence. Show me I'm wrong. Please

roses are red
violets are blue
something something something
there is no god. get over it.

[uppityperson]

56. You phrase that much more politely than I would.

I think it is clear from what they post, # of posts aside.

[uppityperson]

55. I would like to see you demonstrate that assertation. and a quick question

Are FLDS Christian? Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

[dsc]

6. In comparison, yes

How many abortion clinics are in Muslim countries, hint when you multiply numbers by this number you get 0. If Christians were as violent as Muslims every gay bar in the nation and every abortion clinic in the nation would be a bombed out shell.

[Clovis Sangrail]

12. Xtians aren't any less violent... it's our legal system that keeps them in check

If they could get away with it many of them would be just as violent... and many more would go along with it.

[dsc]

14. that is just demonstrably untrue

all of the examples given in the post that started this off were in Western European countries or the US all of which have legal systems that don't permit Muslims or anyone else to bomb clinics. The simple fact is Muslims have been worse than either Christians or Jews.

[Clovis Sangrail]

20. it's demonstrably untrue that we have a more effective legal system than Bosnia?

that's a pretty interesting take on things.

They just got through a war where large portions of the population were taking part in (or turning a blind eye towards) racial 'cleansing'... and you think they have a justice system that is as strong in it's ability to dissuade crime as ours.




you don't get out much do you?

[dsc]

25. I am referring the post about the Dutch cartoons

and yes, I would say that both Holland and Denmark which had a similar problem, have legal systems at least as good as ours.

[Clovis Sangrail]

29. maybe my memory is failing me

but as I remember the prodigious violence that was precipitated by Jyllands-Posten soliciting caricatures of a religious leader mainly took place in countries like Syria or Pakistan or Lebanon.
Countries where it would be hard to honestly describe the legal system as "modern" "efficient" or "just".
:shrug:

Of course there were random acts in other countries as well... but those happen with Xtian causes too.
I don't think Eric Rudolph is a spokesperson for Xtians in general.. though I know there are some who think he was a hero.

Based on the number of violent acts countrywide I'm guessing Xtians leave Muslims in the dust when it comes to overall violence... at least in this country.
Does that mean American Xtians are more violent than American Muslims?

[Chovexani]

47. The ONLY reason Christians aren't as violent is because they're too goddamn lazy

Blowing shit up or rioting in the street would require them to turn off the Teevee preacher and put down the Chik-fil-A. Your average American fundie leaves the house for megachurch and mall (often in the same building, hell they are interchangeable for most) and that's it.

If they put bombing runs for sale on QVC they would eat that shit up.

[gaspee]

58. ...

You made me LOL!

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

53. Actually I think it's because they don't have the motivation to be violent

For whatever reason, most right-wing Xians in the US have gotten their way politically far more than they should have given their numbers. They tend to believe, at least until very recently, that they could theocratize the nation by gradually legislating and adjudicating their way - and promoting their ideology through religious schools and a massive religious media apparatus. (Think of Britain's Fabian Socialists who wanted a similar approach to establishing socialism over time, the only difference being that their policies were not quite so dogmatic, and certainly not as culturally exclusionary.)

If America were in a massive Third-World style economic crisis, or our government were about ten times as corrupt as it already is, religious sentiment might take on a more violent and revolutionary tone. But as for now, the fundies have gotten their way often enough through the institutional path that they don't see a need to riot. Plus we still have enough of a sense of democracy and the rule of law that mobs of Christian Fundamentalist militias would probably be met with a combination of public hatred and govt. repression.

[Darwins Doberman]

7. find out where I claim Christians are non-violent

good job of taking from my point only what you wanted to see. Obviously from my signature I'm a Christian apologist.

Idiot.

[MullenBank]

10. Your use of

"idiot" likely violates board protocol. You are cautioned to moderate your tone. Please.

Christianity had its schism, reformation and enlightenment 300 years ago. Islam has yet to permit science to penetrate its doctrine. I understand it really doesn't distinguish the secular from the non-secular.

It's not that Christianity is totally non-violent it's that the past 300 years have seen a broad and deep strain of moderation diffuse into it.

[Darwins Doberman]

16. I just want to make it clear I was refering to Keep CA Blue

not you, nor anyone else in this thread who quite accurately view Islam is inherently a much more violent and bigotted religion than Christianity and Judaism.

[Zuiderelle]

18. You can't judge ANY group of people by the most extreme among them.

[Clovis Sangrail]

30. of course you can

and DD just did

People love to hate each other based on even more specious of reasons than DD's.
It's what keeps babies blowing up from cluster bombs.

rock on idiots.. it makes you easier to identify
:headbang:

[Darwins Doberman]

38. if you honestly believe that there isn't an inherent problem

in the Islamic faith that produces extremists like Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic Jihad, the Mahdi Army, al Qaeda, Black September, etc. then you're incredibly naive.

[Clovis Sangrail]

42. why do you hate america?

:rofl:

[Darwins Doberman]

43. why do you deny what is patently obvious?

[Clovis Sangrail]

45. obvious is in the eye of the beholder

or instance...
I think it's obvious that many people who, under the guise of security concerns, try to convince others that Islam is such a violent religion are afraid to admit to themselves that they are simply racists.

:shrug:

[Clovis Sangrail]

44. self delete

[WVRICK13]

13. These Attacks Should Serve as a Warning

These attacks happen because their government is aligned with their religion, therefore there are few protections for individual rights that differ from the dominant religion. Imagine how it feels to live in a country where as a citizen I am told I am protected by the Constitution and that ALL Americans are equal under the law; then we have bills in Congress to modify OUR Constitution to legally take away rights I don't even have. If such laws are passed we are not too far away from open season on Gays because the country will have been officially notified we are second class citizens who cannot expect protection under the law. Until all citizens are given equal rights the Constitution really is just a piece of paper as that moron Bush said.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. huh what?

[MullenBank]

22. A one and a two..

The bad muslims are beating the nice gays.

The nice gay men sometimes touch each other sexually and apparently the muslims believe in a sky god that disapproves of such touching. Moreover, the muslim belief in a harsh judgmental sky god appears to be widespread among practicing muslims. The muslims are showing their affirmation of the harsh judgmental sky god and their disapproval of gay men loving one another by beating the nice gay men until their gay bones are broken, their skin deeply bruised and their faces bloodied.

Just think of this news as a kind of movie trailer-- a sort of coming to a theater near you thing.

And I don't want that movie in my neighborhood theater. 'zat help?

[Zuiderelle]

28. You repeating the exact same response to her doesn't make it any more palatable.

[Zuiderelle]

17. "I mean are the casual muslims in on this riot action too?" That's where your post ends for me.

Your statement insinuates no middle ground. Either Muslims are casual or they are extremist. And "the more you learn about Islam?" Fuck. That's just inflammatory and stupid. Extremists of any religion are dangerous. You may as well say "the more you learn about Christianity."

The story stands on its own as horrific, without your bigoted commentary.

[MullenBank]

23. Breaking Out The Blocks

The bad muslims are beating the nice gays.

The nice gay men sometimes touch each other sexually and apparently the muslims believe in a sky god that disapproves of such touching. Moreover, the muslim belief in a harsh judgmental sky god appears to be widespread among practicing muslims. The muslims are showing their affirmation of the harsh judgmental sky god and their disapproval of gay men loving one another by beating the nice gay men until their gay bones are broken, their skin deeply bruised and their faces bloodied.

Just think of this news as a kind of movie trailer-- a sort of coming to a theater near you thing.

And I don't want that movie in my neighborhood theater. 'zat help?

[Zuiderelle]

27. Yes, just as the KKK killed African Americans.

The extremists you talk about are awful, truly evil and horrible people. But they do not represent every Muslim.

I don't care for zealots of any cloth.

[MullenBank]

33. Men, Women,

and,.... well you decide. Our thread rocks. Look at he stats for recent threads. We're getting, on average, as of this writing, about 1 response for every 10 views. No one else is even close. You individuals (guys or gender neutral pronoun of your choice)are awesome. There is actual discussion going on in the glbt room, which, to be frank, was becoming somnolent.

[Zuiderelle]

34. deleted

and never mind...

[dsc]

35. actually he said the opposite

he is getting alot of posts with relatively few views.

[Zuiderelle]

37. I stand corrected. And I wish I hadn't contributed 20% of those posts myself.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. so do christians. should we bomb them? how about hindus?

should we just bomb eveyone?

[Zuiderelle]

40. Anti-muslim BIGOTS attack children in OHIO.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4114635#4114635

This is what happens when you try to stir hatred.

Fucking sick bastards that did this, and fucking sick bastards who distributed that DVD, and fucking sick bastards who pretend not to be bigoted.

[goodgd_yall]

48. Encouraging anti-Muslim bias is unproductive

and dangerous. We have enough of that being spewed by ignorant Americans.

I have Muslim friends. One went to a marriage between two women and said "as long as they love each other, what does it matter." Still he's not without his "issues," but just so you know, you can't just lump together all Muslims and pre-judge their opinions and values.

[TechBear_Seattle]

49. So it is wrong to point to the Westboro Baptist Church or to the American Family Association

Or to Orthodox churches that organize violent anti-gay rallies in Russia or to virulently anti-gay bishops like Peter Akinola of Nigeria or to how the LDS church pumps millions of dollars into ballot measures that would outlaw fundamental civil rights for gay people because...

Doing so amounts to encouraging anti-Christian bias, which is unproductive and dangerous? And is a lie to boot, because you have Christian friends, one of whom when to a same-sex wedding and said "as long as they love each other, what does it matter?"

[goodgd_yall]

50. The current mood of the country is very anti-Muslim

The same danger to Muslims is not present for non-Muslims. I'm talking about the political and social context in which we live. I don't really fear for the lives of Christians, but I do for Muslims, just for being Muslim.

[TechBear_Seattle]

51. Therefore, we should sweep injustice under the rug, just because the perpetrators are Muslim? n/t

[goodgd_yall]

52. No

but when a particular group is itself a target of bigotry and hate crimes, I think the manner in which crimes or injustices are reported need to be carefully thought out so that one doesn't contribute to misconceptions that already exist. I feel this way about hispanic immigrants too. There's been a tendency lately to report violent crimes and then state that the perpetrator was an illegal immigrant (usually from Mexico). This just fans the flames of hatred that exist in this country against latinos.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

54. Look up "Isaac Bonewits" and "Fundamentalism" on Google together...

Bonewits is a Druidic Pagan who has written many wonderful articles about the threat of religious fundamentalism. Pagans are, of course, long-time victims of religious persecution by America's fundamentalists - probably the number one targets in the couple decades prior to 9/11. I believe the essay I am thinking of is called "A Call To Arms."

Since it's October, though, you might as well also read his article on the "Real Origins of Halloween." Fascinating stuff! And then you'll have an excuse to make mischief on the night of April 30, too.

[goodgd_yall]

57. ...

I'll take a look at what you've recommended, but just as a quick response: if you are suggesting I need to learn about the evils of fundamentalism, I'm well aware. But not all of Islam is fundamentalist. My friend's son is choosing to follow Islam, it appears, (he's 15, so who knows what he'll choose in the future) and he's a very Americanized Muslim---accepting of diversity.

My point is that for any group that is a hot target in our culture needs to be discussed with a sense of responsibility toward not fanning the flames of hatred. American are SO ignorant about Islam that it is easy for them to take the actions of a few represents the whole population of Muslims.

By the way, I like your sig. line
;-)