The "No on 8" campaign was a big failure...

[AntiFascist]

Sorry, but now that it is past election day I have to vent. One wonders why the "No On 8" people couldn't do some rather obvious things to help their cause? Were they perhaps more concerned about being employed the next time we have to fight to try to gain our rights back?

The "Yes on 8" campaign delivered, literally, millions of yard signs free of charge to anyone who wanted them. I've heard that they had a million more in the works, but they couldn't be made in time by the factory. Going to the polls yesterday was like following a trail of yellow "Yes on 8" signs.

Our people were charging high UPS rates to deliver signs, and consequently we saw very few. Many of the brave people standing on street corners promoting "No on 8" were using homemade signs! This, after record amounts of money were raised for any proposition in history!

Also, don't you think that a lot of minds could have been swayed by seeing Ellen Degeneres, directly affected by this amendment, promoting "No on 8"? She went to the trouble to produce her own ad and contributed the ad to "No on 8" free of charge, yet they chose not to use it because they felt that their own ads were more effective. Ellen then had to use her own money to have the ad aired. Some of the "No on 8" ads were good, some not so good. Obviously they were outsmarted by "Yes on 8" when children and, particularly, Latino families were targeted in their ads.

Next time, especially if large amounts of money are raised, let's please try to use it more intelligently!

[Anywho6]

1. Well said! Thank you for the post! n/t

[EFerrari]

2. Without dissing anyone, I noticed there was a very good ad that ran here

but it ran TOO LATE. It used black and latino people in it and talked about discrimination. But I didn't even see it until last week, iirc.

Another thing: where was the networking? Maybe I just don't know but, was there a GOTV effort? I'm on several of those email lists and I didn't get very much at all in the last month.

Was it more money that was needed? I'm a little flabbergasted because I don't know anyone who voted for this POS.

[AntiFascist]

9. I agree, there was good material at the end, but it was too late...

and the GOTV effort was very disappointing. Only about 50% of registered voters in SF actually voted?? If more in SF alone would have voted, that could have changed the outcome!

With the amount of money that was raised they could have easily implemented networking. "Yes on 8" was targeting rural communities. Even in my rural area I noticed one lonely but brave individual with a homemade sign trying to counter all the "Yes on 8" craziness. With a little extra work, we could have matched up people for moral support.

[Oeditpus Rex]

24. The networking seemed great to me — if one was signed up

I registered with Equality California about two months ago and got a lot of e-mail from them, particularly in the last couple of weeks when it was coming three and four times per day. The thing is, about 99 percent of it asked me for more money — which, as I explained to them at the outset (and got a personal reply), I ain't got. I told them I wanted to work — and I got maybe three e-mails asking me to go to a phone bank in San Francisco or a rally in San Luis Obispo. I looked for local organization, but found nothing.

Yeah, I could've organized a movement here in town, but I didn't have the first idea where to start. I don't know any gay people here nor any other No on 8 supporters, and the county Dems have never done anything that I've seen other than hold monthly meetings and ride in parades.

So I did what I knew I could do, with the few extra bucks I had: I bought window signs, a bumper sticker and pins. (I also posted all over the internets and wrote letters to newspapers, trying to enlighten the ignorant.) It wasn't much — and, obviously, it wasn't nearly enough — but with the options given me, it seemed about all I could do.

I thought this was gonna be a genuine grass-roots effort, but it seemed to be one of professional organizers and fundraisers in metropolitan areas. Obviously, there's a great need for that, but there's also a need for outreach into small towns that don't have political resources.

[XemaSab]

30. Word

I am really sick of the state democrats running 20-county elections. :banghead:

[LeftHander]

3. I don't think it was a matter of getting more yard signs or more "No on 8" messages

out to the public.

It is simply that too many people look on LGBT people with disgust. Just like the white bigots of the past century did to people of color.

Many people simply cannot grasp or accept me for who I am.

I am laughed and scorned at everyday. I am the "T" in LGBT and I have a partner. We are a same sex couple in most people's eyes.

Obama mentioned LGBT in his victory speech. His beliefs force him to seek a new solution to same sex equal rights.

I didn't like being tossed under the buss by Biden and Obama in the debates.

I am still hopeful for the future.

We will prevail. Because we are here, we have always been here and we will always will be here from now until last human perishes from this universe.

The backlash is coming and it won't be pretty. Everyday we will remind those who think we are less deserving of marriage.

Everyday.

[AntiFascist]

36. We always face bigotry, but this is Anita Bryant all over again...

and, if you may or may not recall, we defeated her with the right messaging once before.

My concern is that some of the leaders in our movement are more concerned about job securiy (especially in this job market) and want to extend our fight into a long-term struggle that could last for years and years.

We blew it big-time in this election and it's important for us to understand that, NOW.

[Booster]

4. It was a really poorly run campaign. The ads were bad and the

Yes on 8 ads were effective. There are some 1400 benefits that married people get that the rest of us, whether gay or single, don't get. They should have shown how not only the gays are discriminated against, but single people as well. I asked a married lady who was pushing Yes on 8 why she thought that she should get over 1400 state and federal benefits that I don't get because I'm single, and she was stumped for an answer. She said "we need to stop this because our children will grow up and choose to be gay" (oh, the stupidity). I said you can stop this by insisting that we are all treated equal under the law - again she was stumped for an answer. This issue will be back and I hope they include single people in the discrimination issue and explain it better than they did this time.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. I hate to say it, but you are absolutely right

Few prominent gay men and women came out in opposition to Prop 8; few donated resources. Ads opposing 8 did not hit the airwaves until the last week of the campaign; by then, many Californians had already mailed in their ballots.

The problem is, there will not be a next time. It is very unlikely that this will be changed any time in the foreseeable future.

[Beregond2]

6. Looking at it from the outside (WA) it seemed to me

that there was a lot of complacency early on, due to the polls showing 8 would be defeated. Liberal Californians like to think of themselves as the norm there, but after all, this is the state that inflicted Nixon, Reagan and Scwarzenegger on the world. Years ago, I lived in Orange County for a while, and couldn't get out of there fast enough. The CA conservatives are of a particularly vindictive stripe, because they resent their state's liberal reputation so much. Give them any chance to take it in an antedeluvian direction, and they will seize it with both hands. It is easy to forget that in San Fransisco or West Hollywood.

[anigbrowl]

7. I rather agree

I'm not lgbt by the way, but I do live in SF and was backing the No on 8 campaign with some $. Ads could have gone up a bit earlier, although they were up before last week. Basically the Yes campaign got a big infusion of cash at the start of the electoral season (beginning of October) while No on 8 was slower raising funds.

The street campaign started late; even in neighborhoods like the Castro, No on 8 didn't have a very high profile a week ago, just small signs in the windows of businesses. It seems almost all the money went on TV adverts. Now, in San francisco a recent thing has been saturation advertising in subway stations; eg Montgomery often has ads for only one (ad) campaign, they buy all the space in the station. Some gay relationship website recently had all the ad space in the Castro station. I was disappointed not to see much more street level advertising here. Obviously not every San Franciscan is for gay mariage, but there should have been MANY no on 8 ads on buses, banners, billboards and so on.

I'm not putting down all the people here who campaigned hard for it, I did see street teams out last week. Nor is this meant to characterize the whole campaign, just point out one area where it could have been more visible. Just getting your message out on TV and radio isn't enough, to my mind putting it on billboards and so forth makes it 'real' in a way people perceive differently from what's on TV.

I see there's a court challenge being filed in LA today (right about now in fact), but even if it succeeds that won't advance the cause of gay marriage in CA very well. Be realistic - the right ALWAYS blames 'activist judges' for any decision they don't like. Gay marriage in California needs its own, positive, amendment. It was sort of a pity to be voting against a ban rather than for expanding freedom, if you know what I mean.

Whatever happens with the court, I don't think there's a 'win' on this issue until there's an electoral mandate. And I do think that's possible; yesterday's result was a lot closer than the last time the state voted on it.

[Beregond2]

10. True, equality that is mandated by the courts is needed,

but it doesn't take the place of changing minds.

[ellius101]

8. The no on 8 ads stunk!

The only decent ad I saw was on Youtube! It never even ran on TV. It showed 2 gestapo-like mormons busting their way into 2 womens house and litereally taking away their rights. The Right used fear based ads, the no on 8 should have done the same thing!

[anigbrowl]

13. I thought they were pretty good actually...

I liked the Youtube ad you're referring to, but it created a BIG backlash among Freeper types and possibly helped motivate them. Bear in mind that those people constantly think their religion is under attack, and since there are probably far more religious than gay people in CA, making them defensive is not necessarily a winning strategy. Fighting fire with fire works under some circumstances, but not all.

[dickthegrouch]

11. Why does everyone expect someone else to do it all?

I am DISGUSTED by the lack of assistance early on from our own community.
My first donation to No on 8 was $500 back in August. I have been donating and working on the campaign three nights a week ever since. I took the last 7 days off work to do nothing but assist the campaign. I am not even a US citizen (I am a permanent resident), but this issue was all about civil rights and a possible protection for my 13 year same sex relationship.

How many others took their passion for this issue to such lengths?


Sure, I didn't like the way some things were done and, from within I made my voice heard. I trusted the campaign leaders and feel somewhat betrayed by them. However, I feel a whole lot more betrayed by the vast majority of Gays and Lesbians WHO DID NOTHING and now want to whine about the result.

Don't wait to be asked. It is up to each of us to get involved and use the power of coalitions and groups to extend our own influence.

There will be two fights for the next four years - pursue equality again in the courts (there is a lot of wonderful precedent in the California Supreme Court Decision, which can still be used to get equality), and overturn this travesty of Justice in 2012.

[anigbrowl]

14. You raise an interesting question

I was talking about this with Ms Browl the other day, and wondering why the Castro area in SF wasn't like a giant beacon of 'No on 8' until recently. Like, I've seen more street-level publicity for street fairs and so on than for this campaign. I don't know if it was apathy, or a desire in the gay community to be discreet and have the No campaign be about equality rather than 'teh gay'. I don't have enough gay friends to draw any kind of conclusion about it, so I'm not blaming anyone.

I've met the campaign leaders briefly at a fundraiser but I'm interested in where you think the campaign went wrong and what they should have done differently.

[AntiFascist]

16. I absolutely agree...

I was more interested in cheering the fundraising, and less concerned with the mechanics of how the money was spent and the grassroots efforts. In the future it would be nice to be more actively involved in the creation of ads and the mechanisms of networking.

I do believe that this movement lacked strong leadership and I don't feel qualified to do what they do, but I think we can all be leaders in our own ways.

[EFerrari]

19. Bingo. But ya know, as a straight person, I do wait for someone

more inside to take the lead. Maybe that's a big fat mistake on my part. Today, I wish I'd risked pissing people off instead of this knowing I did virtually nothing. ARgh.

[Duncan Grant]

12. All that equivocation on Obama's (and the Democratic Party's) part did the most harm.

"NO on 8" isn't to blame. It's the Democratic party's failure. And Barack Obama's.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=FLI01p1

[EFerrari]

17. The H8ers sent out a flier that made it look like he supported it.

The thing is, this wasn't a Dem initiative. No way were they going to touch this.

This was a CA baby. And we dropped it, big time.

[Duncan Grant]

38. The Democratic party has counted on LGBT support on collaborative issues (party unity).

Well, party unity is a myth and I won't be following previously held values about a collaborative agenda any longer. The people who I have proudly supported turned their collective backs on me and removed my state sanctioned rights. It's a new game now.

The Democratic party failed their LGBT constituency: the exit polls said it all.

[AntiFascist]

39. Obama made a statement (audio) supporting No on 8....

and this was used in a No on 8 robocall, but it was very late in the campaign. I applaud Obama for doing this because it conflicted, somewhat, with his stated position against gay marriage. We needed much more of this early on and there were plenty of other political leaders to draw from. "No on 8" is very much to blame for our loss because they could only react to the Yes on 8 people, and were never proactive with a message that would resonate well.

[Duncan Grant]

40. That was equivocation; careful chosen words to play it safe with all constituencies.

The Democratic Party is culpable. If this had happened to any other core constituency; heads would be rolling in the Democratic leadership.

It's unacceptable -- derelict -- leadership.

[anigbrowl]

15. Looking at the exit polls, a few things I noticed...

Low-income people (who are probably young) and high-income people (whoa re probably well educated) voted No, middle income people (most likely 'typical families') voted yes.

More black women than men voted, and 75% of black women were against it. I don't know if this is because of religion or cultural stereotypes. As an outsider (straight white person), it sometimes seems there's antipathy between the largely white gay community and the black community. Then again that's partly because I live in SF and we have a relatively small black population here. But I didn't notice any black gay or lesbian couples in the No on 8 TV ads, though they did use a photo of Mildred Loving & her husband (who had to sue for the right to get married because she was black).

The core vote of the Yes campaign were hardcore Bush/McCain supporters - Obama's supporters were against 8 by a large margin, notwithstanding the above. Yes on 8 had its strongest supporters among moderately affluent people who attended church weekly, were married, didn't work and (surprisingly) had no kids. Apparently, then, a LOT of 'traditional' housewives who had the time, motivation and financial freedom to put their energy into the Yes campaign - and people who don't have kids have the luxury of being idealistic, as opposed to dealing with the reality that kids do their own thing, such as turning out to be gay or other unexpected developments.

[Iggo]

18. WHAT?!?!?!?

"...yet they chose not to use it because they felt that their own ads were more effective."

What ads? They kept sending me emails saying they had ads, but that they didn't have enough money to get them on TV.

Were they lying?

[EFerrari]

20. Who sent you email? I've gotten almost nothing from anyone. n/t

[Iggo]

22. Geoff Kors. (sp?)

[EFerrari]

37. Thank you. n/t

[AntiFascist]

23. Here is a list of their ads...

http://www.noon8.org/ (click on "more videos")

Some of these were aired a lot, but my understanding is that they would not pay for airing the Ellen Degeneres ad, and I never saw it on TV. They had raised more than enough money to air ads.

[Oeditpus Rex]

26. I got tons of that, too

"Help us keep this ad on TV."

Strange — for the last two weeks or more, I saw twice as many No on 8 ads as any others (except those Prop 3 kids singing so horribly), while Kors made it sound as if they were struggling to buy a 15-second spot at 2 a.m.

[ronnykmarshall]

32. I hear ya.

I'd like to know have much money of the millions donated is left.

[Oeditpus Rex]

33. Well, maybe...

they kept some for the legal fight they knew would follow. :shrug:

That just occurred to me. If it's the case, I don't have a problem with it, but I wish they would've told us beforehand.

[Iggo]

31. Uh-oh. I've been catching up on my shows.

Now that the election's over, I've been powering through my backlog of recorded shows on my DVR.

Guess what I'm now seeing a whole shitload of? You guessed it: No on 8 ads!

[GreenFiles]

21. YOU SHOULD REQUIRE 2/3 MAJORITY TO

....MODIFY ANY CONSTITUTION!


RIDICULOUS!!! FUCKING RIDICULOUS!

[beaglelover]

28. I agree completely! n/t

.

[ScreamingMeemie]

25. I think more heterosexuals need to get out their wallets and their

walking shoes for this. It is no longer okay just to say we support you. I'm putting my money where only my mouth has been for far too long.

[Maat]

27. Here are my complaints ...

and I was VERY involved in the campaign (and donated a pretty penny, let's just say). They were VERY late taking advantage of existing networks (I'm a PLAGer, and they were very late in terms of getting help from our local chapter)(contrast this with the other side's very successful mobilization of the local rightwing churchgoers).

Additionally, I felt that it took the proverbial Act of Congress to get a phonebank going. I had trouble getting their rep up here (and he had to be there, per the rules). Everyone could only do their phonebanking from the locale, and there was petty bickering about the locale. The campaign discouraged the use of personal residences, and mine happened to perfect for one, in a perfect locale, and was larger than our cramped other phonebanking place. Then, after we got one going, they wouldn't allow us to leave phone messages referring the resident to the appropriate websites for information. Instead, we had to get a hold of the specific party, use the stupidest script ever written, and then rate them in terms of their support or lack of support. Weeks were wasted doing this. I just didn't like the way it was run.

I took to doing my own precinct-walking, during which I could discuss the whole thing rather leisurely with certain neighbors.

[Jamastiene]

29. We should take up donations NOW and start our own church.

It will be the only way we can compete financially with tax free hate groups like those who took our rights away. I've been thinking about it for years. This taxation without representation bullshit is really getting on my nerves. The people who hate us the most don't have to pay taxes. Why should we?

[sui generis]

34. the Yes on 8 fell on fertile ground

It's not the campaigns. It's the people who voted. They did not require a campaign to make up their mind.

Can anyone here honestly say they were undecided before it was on the ballot?

[AntiFascist]

35. I disagree...

their ads continually stressed that gay marriage would be taught in schools, and they were very quick to refute the No on 8 ads claiming that this was a lie. Their final ad focused on the young daughter of a Latino family (which was likely Catholic) and I think this struck a chord.

[readmoreoften]

41. Hate and hysteria is more mediagenic than reason and sense.

They fearmongered. Our campaign could've been run better, but it shouldn't even be this close. The fact that these rightwing messages "strike a chord" as opposed to "striking horror in the hearts" of voters is the problem in the first place.

[AntiFascist]

42. The truth about who is funding them should strike horror...

look up info on Howard Ahmanson Jr. and Dominionism.

[NorthernSpy]

43. The LDS Church has never repudiated its original, racist dogma -- and no one thought to use this!?!

:banghead:


Yes, the Mormons have changed their practices in this regard. But unlike the Southern Baptists, they continue to claim that it was God's will for blacks to remain a pariah group until he revealed the next step in his plan -- and that therefore the church has no reason to regret its (recent!) past.


That was just one of the points on which No On 8 could have generated useful FUD. A missed opportunity.