Hello, goodbye, and an extremely long post in between.

[Sapphocrat]

As long as I'm here...

I was lured out of self-imposed exile -- after eight months being of being logged out, lurking occasionally when I would hear that the place was in meltdown -- by something I read that was so over the top, I had to post. The thread is now, thankfully, locked.

Having just cruised through another thread (in GD, I think -- I'll skip linking it, but I'm sure you'll all find it soon enough), I remember why I logged off. Suffice to say, I need a long, hot shower.

I'm off to go do what I do -- which, lately, has been a non-stop effort since May to keep, and now regain, our right to marry. For anyone who hasn't heard (is that possible?), Buffy and I tied the knot in August, with family, friends, wedding planner, gorgeous gay waiters in black jackets, cake we did not smash in each other's face, the works. (Yes, there are pictures, on our blogs.)

Seriously: As you can imagine, our hearts have been all but completely shattered by the passage of Proposition 8. We worked so hard, both of us, spoke with everyone we could, donated a lot of money we didn't have to spare, blogged our asses off, and, Election Day, while Buffy was at work making up for some of the obscene sum her wife had poured into the No On 8 campaign, I was in front of a church with other No On 8 folks, campaigning and gets honks of support from passing cars (and more than a few horrible anti-gay slurs and overt gestures thrown our way -- believe me, getting flipped off was the nicest gesture from those assholes).

This past Sunday, we went to the wedding of a dear, dear friend of mine and his partner (now husband) of 14 years. G's family -- his many siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, great-nieces and -nephews, and G's and R's friends -- were all there. If there was a dry eye in the house, it wasn't mine. I felt so honored to be there... and so proud, meeting G's big family for the first time, to introduce Buffy as my wife.

The officiant was a county official and close friend of G's -- who had married his husband only the Monday before.

If only everyone could have been there and seen the love between G and R, and the outpouring of joy all around... It was a celebration of love -- but, oh, so bittersweet.

*deep breath*

Of course, we hope Jerry Brown is right, and our marriage, and G's and R's, will remain intact along with those of the other 18,000 couples who married before the hateful bigots in this state took it all away -- but that's no consolation to either of us. We are grieving, inconsolably, for the couples who can't experience the same joy we did in marrying legally now, and may never be able to.

But perhaps even more than that, it is the sheer weight of this hatred that is absolutely unbearable. There's barely been one hour that's gone by when I haven't started crying all over again. Family members across the country -- including our sisters who stood up for us, who proudly witnessed our marriage with their signatures on our marriage certificate, and including my born-again cousin I thought would never be able to overcome her church's beliefs to be there for me, but did, flying more than 500 miles and staying alone somewhere for the first time in her 50-something years to honor my marriage as much as she does her own of some 20+ years -- called or wrote as soon as they heard, and I had to tell them I just couldn't even speak about it yet.

Those of you who know me know I have a sister to whom I couldn't be closer if we'd been joined at the hip; I always said I couldn't get married without her as my "best woman." I could barely even talk to her -- because she knows me so well, and loves me so much, I couldn't bear to weigh her down with the full weight of my anguish.

My mom -- small, feisty, 87 years old, who I thought wouldn't make it through her last health crisis since her last health crisis, and who, in her flowing pink chiffon, looking like she'd just walked out of a movie, raised her glass at our wedding, looked at Buffy and said: "I have four daughters now" -- she's doing all she can to try to keep our hopes up. She's hurting so badly over the utterly incomprehensible idea that so many strangers would see her baby, and the woman who has surpassed her daughter's hopes and dreams, as a threat to civilization itself... and she's still trying to give us hope. She's being so strong, when you can see the pain in her eyes.

I've got a message sitting in my email inbox from our officiant -- a fantastic woman who walked two stunned, stage-shocked fiancees through the most important moment of their lives, and made it all perfect -- titled "Don't Lose Hope," and I can't even bring myself to read it, because I know I'll fall apart.

No, folks, I'm not asking for pity (I have enough self-pity already) -- I just want to try to make anyone who doesn't understand yet just how devastating this is. To know that more than half the people in my home state -- my home state, where my great-grandfather got offa da boat, never learned English, but busted his ass for a virtual slavedriver and sired more than one hundred years' worth of hardworking brown people who planted orchards and picked prunes until their skin was like leather under the sun -- the place I love so much, and used to be so proud of... these... interlopers, these bigots, no different from the ones who spat "Black Port-a-gee" and "Goddamn dagos, goddamn wops" at my forebears, the ones who locked my great-uncle into his home from dusk to dawn during WWII because he was born in Italy, the ones who anglicized my family name with the stroke of a pen because they couldn't be bothered to spell it (and, anyway, we should be glad, right, because it sounded Mexican, and being mistaken for a Mexican would have been even worse than being known as a Port-a-gee) -- they're back, and they hate us, me, mine, ours, so much, all over again. The "reason" may sound different to you, but to this third-generation Black-Port-a-gee, this dago, this wop, it's the same reason. It just has a different name.

No, no -- don't anyone dare try to excuse these modern-day carpetbaggers for their "deeply held religious beliefs," or ignorance, or anything else. They're just bigots, and I am a non-human to them. My marriage is a sham to them, a joke. They think more highly of caged chickens than they do of my wife and me, and so many thousands of other loving, law-abiding, decent couples.

I went 'round and 'round with a lot of trolls who came to my blog to bait me -- self-identified Mormons, most of them (and if you don't believe it, you can browse through the comments yourself and read some very long conversations) -- and, in the end, it was futile. There is no changing a closed mind.

Nevertheless...

I feel destroyed, but I am not. When I can shove down the deep hurt, my white-hot anger rises, and I want action. Legal, nonviolent action, but action nonetheless. These fuckers are not going to get away with this. They have won the battle, and they may very well win the war, but I am NOT going down without fighting the fight of my life.

I've gone head-to-head with these assholes, and I've dug deeper into the backgrounds of the individuals behind this campaign of hate than any sane ten people would ever bother. The upshot? The power-brokers behind Proposition 8 have been behind every dirty-tricks campaign in California -- and far beyond -- over the last 20, 30 years. The incestuousness of this web of connections is breathtaking (I actually put together a chart, and it looks like a web spun by a spider on crack) -- and it will not be stopped if we fail to take a stand NOW.

Following this stuff has earned me a phone call or two I wasn't expecting; let's just say the Knights of Columbus do NOT like being exposed for their part in all this (and they really don't like the idea of anyone examining their IRS forms).

My advice: DO NOT for a moment buy into the "poor little persecuted Mormons / Catholics / other-religious-group" bullshit. Not for one second. The drones -- the scared sheep who think they must follow the church's edict to donate all their money and spend countless man-hours spreading anti-gay propaganda or they won't get into Heaven -- are as much to blame as the money men behind it all. These people are ADULTS, and must be held accountable for their own decisions, and their own actions.

I don't hate all Mormons (and I certainly don't hate all Catholics -- my family is Catholic, and they're not bigots, not even the Republican side), and I am aware of many, many good Mormons who abided by their "free agency" and did what they knew was morally right: they fought against Proposition 8, as hard as they could, many (such as Andrew Callahan of SigningforSomething.org) risking excommunication, and about half a dozen I know of who resigned from the church of their own accord, specifically because Prop 8 was the last straw.

I also know of a group of Seventh-Day Adventists who opposed their own (historically very anti-gay) church to speak out publicly against this travesty.

And you know what? The majority of these "apostates" still think homosexuality is a sin, and do not believe that gay people should be able to marry, legally or religiously.

But they fought it because it was the right thing to do -- because they recognized that enshrining any religious belief into law, including their own, was wrong. That's it. That's all there was to it for them: It was wrong to force anyone else to live by their beliefs; if they condoned that, they realized, they would be doing exactly what Jesus admonished his disciple for doing in Matthew 26:51-54: trying to fulfill Scripture by force, which essentially means Scripture will not be fulfilled. (Look it up -- it's the "all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" story.)

So, you see, when we LGBTs get our asses kicked -- or kick our own asses -- for not taking it upon ourselves to "educate" people (as if we don't do that already, every single day of our lives!), we're playing a fool's game. Yes, of course, we should always do "outreach" whenever the opportunity arises, but to think 10% (or less) of the population is even capable of the kind of "outreach" that can be (and was) done by religious institutions with more money, power, and resources than we can even imagine -- and ground troops brainwashed into believing God is on their side -- is ludicrous and self-defeating.

I spent the night before the election pacing like a cat in a cage, wondering what more I could have done. My wife assured me there was nothing more, that I had gone above and beyond the call. But I couldn't shake the thought that if I had spoken with just one more person, or put an argument forth from a different angle, or donated one more time...

And then, today, I realized there really was nothing more I could have done -- and, perhaps, nothing I did accomplished anything. The church-cowed homophobes will never listen to me -- but that's not my fault. They need to listen to themselves, to whatever it is inside each of us that allows us to get inside the other guy's skin, and, even if we don't like that skin, to rise above our own prejudice and treat him as a fellow human being, worthy of everything we are, and everything we have.

There are many Mormons and SDA's who did just that.

When it appeared that he was about to be executed for heresy, Galileo defended his life to the Catholic Church with these words:

"I do not feel obliged to believe that that same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use."

There are far too many people who believe that every gift is God-given -- yet are far too willing to forego their sense, reason, and intellect.

I hold those people accountable. I demand justice.

Or, as one of my favorite bumper stickers says: "Jesus is no excuse for being a narrow-minded bigot."

So, folks, don't give in this time to your natural tendency toward compassion and forgiveness with the supporters of the marriage bans in California, Arizona, and Florida, and the adoption ban in Arkansas. I know you have this tendency, because you are Democrats -- and more than a few of you are genuine liberals. (No wink, no sarcasm smiley.) And, as such, you are compelled to try to see it from the other guy's side, and cut him slack.

Don't do it this time. These are people not to be coddled (and, in many cases, not to be fucked with, at least alone). Don't let your compassion overcome your common sense, or fortitude, or determination to play hardball.

Haven't we all complained about that very thing -- about the spinelessness and all-too-eager capitulation of the Democratic leadership?

Well, you have a choice: You can be a pathetic wimp like Harry Reid, and stand by silently as your LGBT brothers and sisters are sacrificed once again. Or you can realize that you are going up against Karl Rove all over again, only this time Rove comes in the form of fanatical, fundamental, evangelical, organized religion. For those of you of the Christian persuasion, these are the wolves in sheeps' clothing you've feared.

Do NOT back down. Do NOT go soft.

Well, that's about it. I haven't even written this much lately on my own blog. And, speaking of which -- and I swear to... well, your God ... this is not a shameless plug -- I encourage you to read my blog, if for no other reason than to start clicking on the long list of sites in my blogroll. I know a lot of you reading this, to put it politely, hate my guts and wish I'd just die, but can you put aside personal differences long enough to at least come on over and check out some of my compatriots' blogs? If you don't want to listen to me, listen to them. This issue is far, far bigger than any personal crap -- we're talking about the one core value we all share: the unconditional commitment to full equality for everyone.

Hey, if I can work with in harmony with people who still say stuff like, "I'll pray that you overcome your sinful lifestyle," while fighting with me to stop the United States from becoming a theocracy, then you can work with me.

One more thing: If you think this is all just about same-sex marriage, you are dead wrong. Dead. Wrong.

There's a reason the Radical Religious Right keeps throwing out insane "slippery slope" lies like "Gay marriage will lead to 'marriage' between brother and sister! man and dog! mother and child!" The reason is that it's projection, in the Freudian sense of the word. Not that the religionists want to marry their Irish Setters or anything -- I mean, their true agenda is composed of a very real "slippery slope," and that is to incrementally strip all LGBT Americans of all our rights and protections, right on down to antidiscrimination laws in housing and employment.

Don't you understand, that's why they're so insanely hysterical about destroying our marriage right in California? If they succeed, and Prop 8 stands, they will fight, hard, to nullify the marriages of all same-sex couples legally married since June. After that, they will fight to overturn our domestic partnerships (just as Pete Knight, author of Prop 22, attempted in his suit to stop the establishment of DPs as a "violation" of Prop 22).

And then... What's next? Take your pick.

Why do you think the Prop 8 camp went so ballistic over this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q28UwAyzUkE

It fits the classic definition of satire. It depicts the truth.

Did you know that there were some 10+ drafts of Proposition 8 submitted to the California Secretary of State before the final version made it to the state ballot?

Did you know that the Prop 8 camp nearly had an internal meltdown over the summer when it came out that one faction (the California Family Council) had been trying to keep Prop 8 as we know it OFF the ballot, because it didn't go far enough?

Do you know what the early drafts of Prop 8 mandated? Not only defining marriage as between a man and a woman, but defining what a "man" was, and what a "woman" was -- by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome.

Don't believe me? It's on the CA SOS's site (Google it).

So where would that leave transgender people?

Fucked.

Where would that leave intersexed (specifically, those with Klinefelter's syndrome, or XXY by birth)?

Fucked.

This is satire too, but it's not far off the mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiYmjDzSg3o

Seriously, this is not just a "gay thing." It's not even just a "queer thing." These maniacs really DO want to get so far into your stuff (literally), there is no limit. They will not be satisfied until everyone who is not like them has no rights at all.

You know what Rev. Martin Niemoller wrote. You don't need me to quote it for you again, I hope.

For those of you who have actually read this far, I thank you sincerely for listening.

I don't know what else there is to say, except: "I have not yet begun to fight."

Please join me. Join us. Don't let your outrage subside so that you forget about this travesty in a few days, and then be reminded of it a year from now by a small mention on page 23 of the newspaper that informs you they've taken away our domestic partnerships, and our adoption rights, and are now working to roll back fair housing -- but only for gays.

Please don't leave us on our own this time. Please. Please fight with us, and don't stop. We need you.

And don't buy their cries of "persecution." If you do, you may as well be Eve sympathizing with the snake.

That's all, I guess. Except: Please don't be offended if I don't answer any replies. I have to log out again (just to prevent myself from ripping a few people to shreds), and I can't say when or if I'll be back. I just hope I've given you some constructive food for thought, maybe even some inspiration. I doubt it -- I'm not very good at inspiring anyone who isn't already chomping at the bit, but I'll hope so anyway.

Thank you.

[meegbear]

1. Come back when you're ready ...

we'll leave the light on. :hug:

[unhappycamper]

2. I'm straight but I'll be on the lines with you.

k&r

[unpossibles]

3. I'm so sorry.

If it helps, you have a lot of allies out here all over America. We weren't able to vote in California, but we are trying to get more people to understand the basic civil right/equality side of this to get them to understand that they have no right to abridge your happiness, or that of anyone else.

[blm]

4. Count on some of us DUers being in the trenches with you on this.

.

[GodlessBiker]

5. Thank you. I still can't speak of it. It hurts too much. And while I cheered over Barack's ...

victory on Tuesday night, by Wednesday morning the joy was gone. I felt cheated out of an emotion I had waited so long to have, the joyfulness of the election of a leader who would, hopefully, help bury the idiocy of the past 8 years. I feel like I have no emotions any more. I don't know what to think. I'm simply at a loss.

Palm Springs is a wonderful place to which I had hoped to move with my partner of 21 years (and husband of 8 months; Thank you Toronto). Being there brings me the closest I think I have ever been to a spiritual experience. It's just a place where I feel content, welcomed, and at peace. Now I don't know if I can move there...it's like a member of the family died. I know this is going to take time to heal inside me.

I still have the small hope that this obscenity will be overturned by the courts; that the initiative will be seen as a revision of the CA Constitution and not an amendment. We shall see.

In the meantime, thank you for your post. You are stronger than I am. I hope to be like you some day.

[nichomachus]

17. Come to Palm Springs tonight

I just got an email invite from the mayor who's sponsoring a rally at 5 p.m. at city hall:

Please join Mayor Pougnet, Mayor Pro Tem Ginny Foat and leaders from HRC,

EQCA, Desert Pride Center and other organizations that worked so hard on the No on 8 campaign.

We must move forward from the devastating results of bigotry and hate exhibited towards the GLBT community with our heads held high and the determination that we lost a battle not the war. Stand up for the 620 + marriages performed at Palm Springs City Hall, 18,000 statewide and countless others that will now be denied their civil rights.

We must let the citizens that voted yes on 8 know that we are not going away and that we will continue this battle for our basic civil rights. If there ever was a time for a us to come together as a community both Gay and Straight and support each other….it is now!

I really think that we're going to win this one in the courts. But the hater will still be there. They're not going away. We need to go on the attack. Everyone who doesn't want the churches interfering in other people's lives needs to get behind a ballot proposition to take away their tax exemptions. Let them spend their money on defense, not on offense.

[GodlessBiker]

18. Thanks! I really wish I could be there.

[nichomachus]

21. I'll go to Wangs afterwards and have a drink for you n/t

[GodlessBiker]

22. Please do! And then on to Toucans!

[MinneapolisMatt]

6. Gigantic K&R.

Thank you for your words.

[shaniqua6392]

7. Thank you for such an awesome post.

I am so sorry. I was so happy when Obama won. But, by the next morning, when I heard about Prop 8 I was heartbroken. I know that I can not imagine what you all are going through. I am a middle aged, straight, married Christian woman and I would give anything for you to have the rights you so deserve. It is only right and just. I hope I live to see the day that I can go to the wedding of my sister and the woman she loves. :cry:

[Heidi]

8. I'm standing with you.

:kick:

[xchrom]

9. recommend

[GeorgeGist]

10. I sympathize with "Eve's" desire for wisdom ...

to overcome the hardships that ignorance imposes on everyone.

[crispini]

11. Please stick around, and let us know what we can do.

Especially those of us who don't live in CA.

Good luck, soldier. You're fighting the good fight. :patriot:

[Cults4Bush]

12. Amazed at your post.

...and not just because I agree with everything. I cant even think clear enough to articulate a tenth of what you said. Color me grateful to have a post I can link to now.

I miss the "Port-ah-gee" celebrations very muchly :)

[ruggerson]

13. Brilliant. Thank you.

Don't be gone long, you're needed right here.

[knitter4democracy]

14. Sitting here, sniffling.

I am so ashamed that I didn't do anything (other than talking with people here and here in Michigan) this fall just because my life fell apart. I am so sorry I didn't find a way to fight this. I can't even begin to imagine how much this hurts.

[ellius101]

15. That home invasion YouTube ad you posted

It's the best ad I saw in this fight against the bigotry. I wish they'd aired it from the beginning. I think it would have won us the fight and most would have voted against prop 8. I'm disappointed it was never aired, at least not in my neck of the woods. As the fight continues, it needs to be aired. F-ck the mormons if they dont like it.

[ellius101]

16. ps..how do I find your blog?

I'm a newbie to DU and would like to know how I get to your blog? Thanks in advance!

[Duncan Grant]

34. Link to Lavender Newswire:

Lavender Newswire

[Irishonly]

19. My family stands with you

I am so sorry. I don't think I have the words to really say how angry and depressed I am/was that evil proposition passed.

[Constance Craving]

20. Thank you for your words . . .

and don't be gone long. This loss is horrific for all of us in the human family. I am committed to helping fight this any way I can, though I am in NM, because this discrimination hurts ALL of us.

[Maven]

23. Sapph.

Now I'm almost in tears.

We miss you. Please come back.

:hug:

[RhodaGrits]

24. Thank you for posting this.

I want to send your words to friends and family who don't understand why as a straight woman that I've been an activist for LGBT rights. My heart goes out to you. This is about basic human rights.

[hippywife]

25. I have always had a heart and mind for civil rights

and this cause is no different. No one should have to suffer for the religious beliefs of others. As a Christian, I stand by you all...unconditionally. There is no "hate the sin, love the sinner" here. I mean un-con-dition-ally. Period.

I am so sorry for the suffering you have felt at the hands of those who haven't the first clue what being a Christian is truly about.

Like I told lionesspri the other day, please take heart. Obama didn't get to the the presidency on the ballots of only African Americans, nor shall this burden be yours alone, either.

And may I wish you a belated congratulations on your marriage. I am so happy for the two of you. Please take your joy there right now. Don't let them even so much as bruise that, else they have truly won.

Much love to you both. :hug:

[LostinVA]

26. Believe me, I understand -- it could technically happen to me and Haruka in a sec

All it would take is a majority of Freaks on the NJ Supreme Court.

Also, for the record: Haruka and I called you two as a couple almost TWO YEARS ago. Congrats, and try not to lose hope.

[Zuiderelle]

27. Recommended. This has been one hell of a bad week wrapped inside such a good one.

[mitchtv]

28. Hi Sapph!

I'll be getting TS's soon

[robertpaulsen]

29. Bookmarking and telling everyone at work about your blog.

Thank you so much for your wonderful work and touching post. You certainly have inspired me!

[noiretextatique]

30. bravo, sapphpcrat

thanks for your eloquence and righteous anger. and congratulations on your marriage :hi:

[AntiFascist]

31. K&R, what people should also realize...

we came close to defeating Prop. 8. It was not a huge mandate by the state of California, as the religious right would have everyone believe. The No on 8 campaign actually raised more money than Yes on 8, and if it had been used more effectively we might have won.

Also, a lot of attention is being drawn to the Mormon and Catholic churches for funding Yes on 8, but little attention is being drawn to snakes like Howard Ahmanson Jr, who was a founding sponsor. Here is a little info on him:

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/democracy/106102/the_man_behind_proposition_8/

...

Few Americans have heard of Ahmanson—and that's the way he likes it. He donates cash either out of his own pocket or through his unincorporated Fieldstead & Co. to avoid having to report the names of his grantees to the IRS. His Tourette's syndrome only adds to his mysterious persona, as his fear of speaking leads him to shun the media. While Ahmanson once resided in a mental institution in Kansas, he now occupies a position among the Christian right’s power pantheon as one of the movement’s most influential donors. During a 1985 interview with the Orange County Register, Ahmanson summarized his political agenda: “My goal is the total integration of biblical law into our lives.”

...

If more constitution-loving Americans realized the true goals of people like Ahmanson, then efforts like the "Yes on 8" campaign might enjoy less success.

[BrklynLiberal]

32. "Jesus is no excuse for being a narrow-minded bigot."

We all know that these hypocritical homophobes use the name of Jesus in their hateful diatribes, but in truth they do not practice any of his teachings..

[66 dmhlt]

58. Maybe there's one too many "Ms" in Mormon

[FlyingSquirrel]

33. I am hopeful.

I think this may be the last straw that finally leads to an all-out battle for equal rights in this country. And I think the fact that Obama consistently includes the word "gay" in his speeches including the one on election night means that he plans to use the bully pulpit in support of this battle. That's gotta be a good thing.

[yellerpup]

35. Congratulations on your August wedding.

I wish you and your lovely wife many years of happiness together. I hope you were able to thrill to the Perseid meteor shower on your honeymoon (that's our honeymoon time, too) and for many years into the future. I hope we can change the world so you will know how many people love you and support you for being who you are just the way you are. :hug:

[Duncan Grant]

36. Makes me realize how much I miss you!

Yours in solidarity -- :loveya:

[indigo32]

37. damn

can I just say AMEN. I am angry, just really angry that this has happened. I'm not going to try to see anyones side on this it's ridiculous.

The part about defining what a man and a woman are is definitely news to me. Just WOW! I guess I'm screwed two ways to sunday then, instead of just one. If they think they are going to strip me of my humanity they got another thing coming.

[northofdenali]

38. I've missed you, Sapphocrat. Your intellect, your bravery,

your insight and your writing have always been a joy to read and interact with.

I'll be with you in this fight, doing what I can from so many thousands of frozen miles away! :kick:

[stopwastingmymoney]

39. I voted NO in CA

and I'm so sorry

and angry and heartbroken and ashamed

remember almost half of us said no...

[lightningandsnow]

40. Wonderful post.

:applause:

[1Hippiechick]

41. You now know the rage that haunts civil rights activists - and that's what we're talking about -

civil rights. Be it racism, bigotry, homophobia...add whatever to the list...it ALL is under the umbrella of HATE. That, to me, is the irony of the so-called "Christians" who are supposed to demonstrate the love that Christ taught, and that is taught in other religions? P.H.A.R.I.S.E.E.S every one.

You can't give up hope. These fragmented United States of America just elected its first Euro-African American as President. Change WILL come - and I hope it is in your lifetime.

There are those of us who will fight alongside you. It IS about CIVIL rights, and that fight will NEVER end.

[Tektonik]

42. Thank you Sapph

rec'd

[2Design]

43. you are right they will strip rights - they took away adoption in arkansas

they are so sick - I am sorry they believe in discrimination and there are enough people who have been discriminated against that voted for this that it is ridiculous

[tbyg52]

44. >>If you think this is all just about same-sex marriage, you are dead wrong. Dead. Wrong.

Yep. And it's not just about "incrementally strip(ping) all LGBT Americans of all our rights and protections" - it's to strip everybody, eventually, of their right to do anything that doesn't suit the fundies, whether it hurts anyone or not. First they came for....

Edited because the square brackets I used in the quote didn't work the way I expected them to.

[Jamastiene]

45. I miss you and I love you and BTFS both with ALL my heart.

BOTH of you are heroes to me. :grouphug:

Thank you for being as strong and as smart and as persistent as I wish I could be. You inspire me and that is not easy to do.

Of course, I recommended your excellent post. If I could, I'd nominate both of y'all as our leaders too. :patriot:

Never give up and never stop fighting. It's the only way we'll win. We cannot let them defeat us in the larger war they have waged. On to the next battle. Let's get Proposition h8 overturned, boycott Utah, and fight them to until the bitter end.

[Nikki Stone1]

46. "it is the sheer weight of this hatred that is absolutely unbearable." Yes.

Incredible post. And we will not back down. There's too much to fight for.

[LiberalAndProud]

47. I miss you Sapph.

Thank you for this post. These laws are so wrong, and they are being passed two and three at a time all across our country. This must end. I stand with you against the injustices you decry so eloquently.

How can we help? What can we do?

[rosesaylavee]

48. Hello again!

K & R

We need your voice here. Please come back when you can.

[Dem2theMax]

49. Sapphocrat, I'm with you.

:hug:

It had to hurt like hell to write that, let alone live it. You are not alone. Please know that. Your fight is my fight.
Americans, sadly, will not be equal in this country until we are ALL equal under the eyes of the law. I will fight with you for the laws that are needed.

I wish people had hearts big enough to see that we are all equal, period. I wish that love would win out over hatred every time. Some day - maybe?
So now, we fight together, to win what should be your right without our ever even having to say it - your right to love anyone you choose, your right to marry that person, to have all the laws that protect straight couples, protect GLBT couples.

I, for one, promise that I won't stop fighting until you have the same rights I do. It's beyond my depth of understanding that I even have to type out that sentence.
You should have been born with those rights. No one should have to fight for the right to be themselves.
I will fight with you now, not only so that you can have those rights, but so that future generations will be born with every right due them as human beings.

[KoKo]

50. Sapphocrat, thanks for sharing that... I'm so sorry you have to go through this.

There have been some ugly racist posts on DU accusing groups that went OTT...but reading your post which is so personal gives a whole different dimension.

We have to hope that this election means that as we go forward much can be changed for the better. I don't know what was going on in CA that rights given could be taken away this month in one of our most liberal states. But, we have to hope it was some temporary insanity that will pass.

[kleec]

51. I am so tired of

these hypocrites....I don't care what religion anyone is, just keep it to yourself, do not push this hypocrisy onto we the people. Civil rights are just that....they belong to ALL of us, not only the sanctimonious individuals who are afraid of 'other'. I left organized religion for many reasons, but the hypocrisy I witnessed while I was attending their services were astounding! So, what they did to you in CA is above the pale, I cannot understand how it even made to the ballot. I hope that with the new administration many things will change in this deeply wounded country, it's why so many voted the way they did......change has to happen before we have a country that is unrecognizable as our country. Christ it's like the damned Dark Ages with all of this religion stuff that is raging, or whatever era that was darkening our world. We've regressed and we have lots and lots of work to do. You have many on your side, you really do and we will do what we can from our end even if we do not live in CA. Our hearts are with you.


:loveya:

[orleans]

52. wow--great fucking thread! totally recommended. (i'm exhausted

after reading it--i need a cigarette }(

congratulations, thanks for all your hard work, i'm sorry 8 passed, hope to see you back here again.

meantime--take good care.

[Hekate]

53. Oh Sapph. I didn't know. I was so obsessed with getting Obama elected that everything else...

... fell completely off my radar. Of course I voted against Prop Hate, but other than that.... :cry:

I've read your whole post, bookmarked it, recc'd, kicked. You said there's more info at your blog about this:
"I've gone head-to-head with these assholes, and I've dug deeper into the backgrounds of the individuals behind this campaign of hate than any sane ten people would ever bother. The upshot? The power-brokers behind Proposition 8 have been behind every dirty-tricks campaign in California -- and far beyond -- over the last 20, 30 years. The incestuousness of this web of connections is breathtaking (I actually put together a chart, and it looks like a web spun by a spider on crack) -- and it will not be stopped if we fail to take a stand NOW."

But I didn't see a link to your blog. Please give some guidance. I need to know. I knew the evil-doers wouldn't go away quietly, that they have lots more harm in them, and -- I need to know.

Please, don't give up hope. I feel like I just got my country back, but if you don't have your country back then I don't either.

I've missed your posts. :hug:

Hekate

[Hekate]

54. 100th rec.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

55. Hi, Sapphocrat

I am so sorry what happened to you and everyone in the LGBT community this past Tuesday. I really was hoping and praying with everything in me that Prop 8 would fail. It is so unconscionable that people in our community still are expected to sit and wait until the rest of society sees fit to vote us our rights. Screw that! Rights are not something that should be voted upon.

I've missed seeing you here and I miss the old Lavender Liberal Forums. I know it's not much consolation, but I'm thinking good thoughts for Buffy and you.:grouphug:

[enigmatic]

56. I'm with you

Until the end.

[Chulanowa]

57. Another post that I really can't say anything in response to

without sounding like a blithering idiot in comparison. So I'll just kick and reccomend this and hope lots of people better at it than me manage something passable.

[Steelworker In OH]

59. WoW

I didn't know the extent of what they were doing out there, I'm way over here in Ohio. I was very opposed to Prop 8, even though nothing like it was on my states ballot. I'm straight, my wife is openly bisexual, we have many gay and lesbian friends. We actually have a "Civil Union" because we did not get married by a clergyman in a church. We got married outdoors, which is our religion's church, by a Mayor of a town we were near, Prop 8 is just one step away from stripping my wife and I's civil rights away too.

I'm actually an ordained priest by ULC. I got ordained several years ago specifically to perform religious rights to people who do not follow mainstream religions (I'm Pagan myself). I have already promised to perform civil union/marriage for a few of my gay and lesbian friends once it is legal in this area of the country.

I think the whole disallowing of basic civil rights to any group of people is wrong, it really bothers me even though I'm not directly affected by the "law". I truly hope there is some kind of loophole or legal precedent they can go by to fight the fact that prop 8 was even on the ballot (I think that's the way they are fighting it so far). I'll be there fighting right beside the GLBT community for equal rights.

[Bluenorthwest]

65. Go do 'gay weddings' today

It is fully legal for you to do so. Freedom of religion.
When you say you have a 'civil union' do you mean to say that you and your spouse did not get the State to make a marriage contract for you? That the promise you made is the whole of your bond? Because if you got the state to legalize your 'union' you have a marriage, for it is the state and the state alone that makes marriage. The fact that you did not go to a 'mainstream' religion has zero to do with your legal status. No one is required to do a ceremony at all. The ceremony never carries any weight of law, at all. Without the state, that ceremony is devoid of legal meaning.
A marriage is made by the state. The fact that you used not clergy or church is of no import at all. If you went to City Hall and made it legal, you are in a marriage.
Amazing that even a person like you would misunderstand the whole thing.

You are right now free to legally preform any religious cermony you wish to preform, for anyone, at any time. But the state who holds legal power weill not validate that ceremony.

[Steelworker In OH]

80. It's not a misunderstanding

It's my view on it. I'm not comfortable with the term "Marriage" in a legal sense. I think it holds too many religious implications because not everyone can get one/be in one, it's too selective. Yes my wife and I have a signed state "Marriage License", we are 100% legal in the eyes of the government.

For me and a lot of my friends, performing a "marriage" without legal paperwork is near pointless. Honestly, my wife and I felt joined in our hearts before we actually went through the legal process and ceremony. The only reason we even got the license was for the civil rights purposes, taxes, insurance, ect. We didn't need a piece of paper to tell us what we already felt in our hearts. My gay and lesbian friends may wish to be bonded or hand fasted, but they want to wait until they can have the same legal stature as heterosexual couples to actually do the ceremony.

I say "civil union" because it was performed/signed by a justice of the peace, not a clergyman. Yeah, some may say its the same thing, but I don't think it is considering some of the religious organizations are fighting so hard to keep certain people out of "marriages".

Oh, and for clarification as to why we went with a Justice of the Peace, our religion has no official church, we have fellowship gatherings with houses of friends, so we had no church to go to. We both wanted to be joined outdoors in the presence of Mother Nature, as well as our families and invited friends. I could have had a friend who is ordained come in to perform a true "religious" ceremony for us (and we joked about it), but due to our families not holding the same beliefs as us, we felt it best to go a bit more traditional. We did incorporate many of our religious symbolism's into it (I crafted an Altar for our unity candle to go on, and we had several other little details important to us).

[Rowdyboy]

60. Heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking....

[OnionPatch]

61. We're with you.

I was sickened when I heard Prop 8 passed. I don't personally know any couples it will affect in California, but any human being with a heart could have figured out what Prop 8 would mean, that people like you would be hurt so badly. I was ill all the way to work that morning because there were Yes on 8 signs plastered ten feet apart lining the streets the whole way. I imagined how I would have felt driving that parade of hatred if I were gay. :( The money they spent on that campaign was stunning and sickening. It was so unfair. And they told so many lies. A significant amount of people I talked to really believed that if Prop 8 didn't pass, their children would be educated about gay lifestyle in public school and it would be against the law for the clergy to read certain chapters of the Bible during a sermon.

I'm sorry this happened in California, of all places. I think the presidential election distracted too many CA voters from the other issues, while the Prop 8 people were focused and determined and more importantly, well-funded. I have to believe that if the people of California hadn't been distracted with such an important national election, and if they had known the truth, many less would have supported Prop 8. I hope the fight isn't over and this can be turned around somehow.

And by the way, why do we have a constitution that can be changed by a simple majority, anyway? Where are protections for minorities from the "tyranny of the majority"? I'm not originally from California and did not know the details of the constitution, but what I'm learning is disappointing.

[fascisthunter]

62. Prop 8 Severely Diminished My Elation after this election...

Why, because of religious fanatics who breed hatred of people out of fear. "God" is just an excuse and a really bad one, because unlike many of their followers, I know every human has the ability to make a choice. They chose to persecute the Gay and Lesbian community. Their "God" didn't make them or even tell them to do what they did. They chose to go along with a lie taught to them by bigots with unquestioning loyalty. Well, the same "God" they supposedly believe in and follow, is the only one to judge anybody. What I am saying is all too often Churches and their leaders think they are God by doing what they claim is "God's" work, however rational humans who are not brainwashed or weak willed understand that it was a choice they had made... "God" has nothing to do with it.

My sister married her sweetheart over two years ago, and to think someone would want to harm that relationship, burns me up... I watched my sister struggle for years due to the way people perceived her sexuality, and I also watched her struggle as a strong willed woman who didn't take shit from men, but those men somehow felt it was ok to give her shit anyway because she was a woman.

I, a straight man will be by your side... you will get your rights. I am pretty confident of that. Take care.

[Toasterlad]

63. I Really Miss You and Buffy Here, Sapph. I Hope You'll Come Back Soon.

You are sorely needed around here.

[fed_up_mother]

64. Very emotional to read. Good luck!

[JDwho]

66. Prayers to you and everyone in this cause...

The law should never legislate love. As for Christians and other religions, they are called to do one thing only, spread the Word; never to force their belief on anyone and certainly not to hate those who do not accept it, in its entirety. In fact, they are to do quite the opposite. Love. "Love one another" being the greatest commandment."

"But they fought it because it was the right thing to do -- because they recognized that enshrining any religious belief into law, including their own, was wrong. That's it. That's all there was to it for them: It was wrong to force anyone else to live by their beliefs."

So sorry for your pain, I cried for you and others as I read your post. As a straight woman, I don't think I ever, ever really understood until now. Thank you for that. Keep hope.

[vanlassie]

67. Love, Honor and Respect to You.

[Bluenorthwest]

68. Sapph you are so missed, and this post is

a great example of why you are missed. So well put, so on the mark. My deepest thanks to you for the work and my shared pain with you in regard to the vile Prop 8 results. I may never return to California for more than a visit, I always thought of it as home until Tuesday. I was born there. My parents, like yours, helped to build it from the the feilds of day labor to the top of their actual fields. Started as grunts and cotton pickers. Dust bowl okies and such.

To you and Buffy I say this about the law: Heart IS the law. Love is the law we serve. Nothing can change that, nothing. They may try, they may even dream they have won, but Love will always prevail.

You are both missed here for many reasons. I'm saving this OP forever. Blessed be dear Sapph, and to your spouse as well, blessed be.

[acmavm]

69. Oh, I am so sorry.

[prairierose]

70. I have to tell you that I was beyond....

surprised that this passed at all but I guess I did not follow this closely enough. I could not believe that a state that would vote for Obama could vote for such a regressive, hateful idea.

I hope that all of the lawsuits will result in a judicial result that upholds the fact that in all the history of this country, we have never taken legal rights away from any group; we have only added different groups with different rights.

This is the despicable result of the spread of hatred. We must fight against hatred and ignorance where ever we find it. Right now in this country, both are very easy to find.

[Strathos]

71. Controversial idea-It's time for a war on religion

That was a beautiful post and thank you for it Sapphocrat. I'll be visiting your blog.

If the radical religious extreme is not stopped, they will rule America and everyone that doesn't agree with them will be jailed, killed or both.

I think it's time for a true war on religion. Let's legislate them back into their churches and force them to stay there and stop infecting the rest of us. I'm tired of my relationship with God being defined by simpleton idiots who think they have a right to tell me how to live.

I'm sick of them and like Sapphocrat, I'm gonna fuckin' fight them with everything I've got.

[GinaMaria]

72. Never say never

This Prop 8 BS in your state may be just the catalyst to get this right. By Prop 8 passing, it starts the legal process through the courts and hopefully will end up in the supreme court. When the supremes declare that Prop 8 is unconstitutional, it will stop every state in the union from legalizing this BS. It's a longer road and a bigger picture to focus on. It's not easy right now. Take the time you need and comfort in those who support and love you. This will be a long struggle, but I believe you, GBLT supporters and America will prevail.

This painful blow is a lot to deal with right now. The betrayal, anger, sadness, disappointment and heartbreak at the hands of your own neighbors is a lot to bear. Do what you need to do to heal and get back on the field when you can. We have not yet begun to fight for equal rights. Everything up to this has been a warm up. This is the big one and it will take a little longer than expected. You have many people here who will stand by you and stand up for you. Count me on your side.

:hug:

[JDPriestly]

73. Thank you for your wonderful post.

Remember. It took hundreds of years to abolish slavery, and nearly a hundred more to the election of Obama to the presidency. And all along, the haters justified their hate by quoting the Bible.

Keep fighting. Don't give up. It will take time, but hearts will turn.

Unfortunately, the popular image of gays is not the one that you and I know. The general population does not see the many gay people who live in responsible relationships that deserve and should be recognized as lawful marriages.

So, the first step to win the battle for gay rights is to focus media attention on gay couples who live as families. A couple of gay couples who have been in long relationships live on my block, but the public at large has not had a chance to see these families.

The image of gays in the media is about at the stage of Rochester. They either present themselves as comedians or never mention the fact that they are gay. The faster that prominent gays who are in good relationships "come out," the faster the public will accept the idea of gay marriage.

[annabanana]

74. KICKING, because

I was too late to "rec".. (sorry, been away from the machine) Your have my support, 100%.
This is AMERICA, damn it!

[OwnedByFerrets]

75. I rarely read LONG posts.....yours is an exception.....

I am behind you in your fight as it is a fight for all of us. We must not accept bigotry anymore than we cannot accept racism. My thoughts are with you.

[technocoloredrose]

76. Whatever you need me for

let me know. I am a pretty good writer, so I could do some writing for you. I'll work on a poem this week and see if I can't come up with something good.

Please, email me so I can send the poem directly to you.

[Two Americas]

77. very powerful

The right wing extremists have succeeded on this issue, as they have on so many, in turning logic upside down and defining and describing the issue in a deceptive way.

We are talking about, or should be, human rights, not "gay rights" and certainly not privileges for anyone. It is a fundamental human right to be free from being described and defined by others, to be persecuted and abused based on that, and to be denied equal protection under the law. Rights denied to anyone threaten the rights of everyone.

This is not about whether or not anyone approves or endorses, likes or dislikes anything or anyone. "I don't care whether or not anyone likes me, so long as they do not have the power to harm me."

The forces behind the opposition to same sex marriage are using this as a first step, a wedge, with the ultimate goal of encouraging and promoting persecution and abuse of human beings, under the pretext of "gay."




Aside - you are terribly missed here and much loved and appreciated by so many of us.

[Chorophyll]

78. Great post and I'm sorry...

I wish I could have voted in CA to help stop this thing from going through. There is never any excuse for bigotry. I know it's cold comfort to say that things will change someday, but I truly believe they will.

Best of luck to you and your wife.

:hug:

[baby_mouse]

79. Bless you, Sapph.

So lovely to see you here again, albeit briefly. I wish you'd stay on and post more often...

I hardly ever post in GD these days, though, so I think I may understand why you don't.

[foxfeet]

81. I can't add much here,

given your eloquence and that of all the others. My partner and I were married in Oregon in 2004 during a brief window of opportunity in Multnomah County. Our marriage, and those of the other LGBT couples, were invalidated not long thereafter.
We've been together 28 years this month, and that is ultimately what counts. Keep loving Buffy (and she, you) and the strength and healing will flow. We are going to win this eventually.

[RobertDevereaux]

82. With you all the way!

Thank you.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

83. I'm a straight woman appealing to other straights - please let's help gays now

Please go to this site and read, donate, get involved. I plan to.

http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/#petition

[Kajsa]

85. Done!-Petition for LDS to lose tax exempt status.

Present and accounted for! :patriot:

Thank you so much!

They deserve to lose their tax exemption.

:(

[PennyP]

84. I am straight but gay civil rights are MY civil rights, SEPERATE CHURCH AND STATE!! n/t

[bluedawg12]

86. So much good stuff here and so much sadness too.

Thanks for delurking long enough to post this and I hope you come back to the GLBT forum to help keep it going, at a time like this we need our own space and to be with our own people.

Even though, kind hearted people of any orientation are always welcome.

peace
bd12

[amborin]

87. i'm really sorry Prop 8 passed

it's horrible it passed here in California, especially

[bluedawg12]

88. I hope you come back soon.

We need smart,impassioned people. It doesn't have to always be about heart wrenching, gut churning issues, we can talk about life, pets, family, work.

We need community for our collective sanity.

peace

bd12

[Marrah_G]

89. Sapphy- I'm so sorry

It's good to see you here- even if it's just briefly.

Congratulations on your wedding if I haven't said so before.

I won't stop fighting.

What is the best organization to give to now that the election is over.

I will donate whatever I can spare.

:hug:

I am so sorry that you are in so much pain.

[yardwork]

90. kicking