A comment on a poll

[struggle4progress]

The poll is (of course!) this one: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

To meaningfully compare polled groups, one needs comparable sampling. But now there's a problem:

Under "Vote by Sex and Race" there are "white," "latino," and "other" men and women -- but only "black" women
Under "Vote by Age and Race" there are data for "white," "latino," and "other" in groups "18-29," "30-44," "45-64," and "65 and older" -- but no "black" age groupings

This means that the pollsters were generally unable to obtain responses from "black" men and were also generally unable to obtain age information from "black" women. The meaning is clear: there is a problem with the methodology. It may be a problem with the sampling or it may be a problem with the interview technique or it may be something else -- but there's a problem. In any case, the polling data are insufficiently comparable to support any meaningful comparisons of "black" to other groups.

[yardwork]

1. I had a thread in GD or someplace pointing out that the poll might not be accurate.

Other posters mentioned that other kinds of polls tend to reinforce data showing that a strong majority of African Americans disapprove of gay people. However, that doesn't mean that this particular poll is accurate.

[struggle4progress]

2. I somehow missed that. There's a good Kos post now on Greatest:

Kos: Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People for Proposition 8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7821193

[yardwork]

6. It's here. As you can see it was immediately jumped by shit stirrers.

Then the accusations of racism began. Not one of the people who started dozens of threads complaining that "the DU gays" were being racist bothered to post on my thread. I finally got so upset about being called a racist by dozens of longtime DUers while my posts advocating for calm were ignored that I fell apart yesterday. I'm taking a much-needed break from the internet now, but I'll leave this link here for what it's worth:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4404675&mesg_id=4404675

[struggle4progress]

8. Thanx!

kick'd it

[yardwork]

9. Thanks, but it sank again immediately. Nobody wants to acknowledge that "the gays" aren't racists.

It's much more fun to post sanctimonious complaints that "all the gays" hate black people. I guess it helps people feel better about what happened in California, Arkansas, Arizona, and Florida. We deserve it because we're racists.

[struggle4progress]

11. This straight guy of northern European ancestry generally avoids GD

and although I usually don't spend much time in The Lounge, I will share the following bit of DU wisdom that I learned there: "GD :scared:"

I am quite sure that, in the end, progressives will win fights like this. Of course, the idiots ... well ... the idiots may never disappear completely, though many can be won over one by one

[EFerrari]

3. And worse, the corporate media is running, skipping with the story

black people hate gay marriage.

And it's as if all of the healthy skepticism on DU evoporated.

:shrug:

I'm not black and I'm not gay but I've been around both these pollsters AND this media long enough to want to know a lot more before I go off on anyone.

[struggle4progress]

4. How seldom the media really provides news we can use:

one wants to know the geography of attitudes towards Proposition 8 and how that geography overlaps major media markets; one wants to know how people formed opinions about the proposition and what they considered as sources of information; one wants to know exactly how people reasoned about this issue, beyond silly slogans -- and whether in fact those who voted for Proposition 8 were mainly influenced by the word "marriage" but otherwise would have no problem rewriting the law to be blind to sexual orientation

Instead we get a meaningless ethnic classification. But of course there is, in the scientific sense, no such thing as black: it is a social fiction, which was developed to divide the population so a part could be exploited. Reaction to this garbage poll suggests that the major use of racial concepts is still division

[EFerrari]

5. Precisely. And the result is, when we need unity MOST

to make sure our votes get counted and that the counts are right, we've been riven. It makes me want to WEEP.

Btw, no one but Amy has reported that CA voters are trending TO gay marriage, not against it. We did better by more than ten points this time at the polls. This shouldn't be put up for a vote but, we did do BETTER this time. And that fact has been swamped and lost. :(

[bluedawg12]

7. Yeah, I just read about a DailyKos blog re: CNN poll

and why it methodology is in error.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/7/34645/1235/704/656272

So we know, crap, we don't have a final tally, we don't have accurate exit polls, be wwe are just told and sold that we lost.

Is that 2nd class or 3rd class citizenry? :argh:

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

10. There is only one culpable party in all this, only one!

The LIARS who developed, paid for, and DISTRIBUTED the LIES about what gay marriage 'would do' to a fearful populace.

Whereas it would be nice to believe that everyone who saw these, saw through them, but that is and never will be the case.
When RELIGIOUS 'leaders' resort to lies and philandering, they're no longer Christians, just lowlifes with no true moral guidance.

The idea NOW should be change the mind of most/more of those who SUPPORTED it and if there is a particular group that needs more discussion then that should be done.

Enough name calling.

So a 'friend' hurt our feelings.... let's say our apologizies and move on.