Black opposition to gay marriage remains strong (and to civil unions)

[IndianaGreen]

So far as the party of the socialist proletariat is concerned, religion is not a private affair. Our Party is an association of class-conscious, advanced fighters for the emancipation of the working class. Such an association cannot and must not be indifferent to lack of class-consciousness, ignorance or obscurantism in the shape of religious beliefs. We demand complete disestablishment of the Church so as to be able to combat the religious fog with purely ideological and solely ideological weapons, by means of our press and by word of mouth.

Socialism and Religion (1905)
V. I. Lenin

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm

God admitted that Satan was right; he recognized that the devil did not deceive Adam and Eve in promising them knowledge and liberty as a reward for the act of disobedience which he bad induced them to commit; for, immediately they had eaten of the forbidden fruit, God himself said (see Bible): "Behold, man is become as of the Gods, knowing both good and evil; prevent him, therefore, from eating of the fruit of eternal life, lest he become immortal like Ourselves.

Let us disregard now the fabulous portion of this myth and consider its true meaning, which is very clear. Man has emancipated himself; he has separated himself from animality and constituted himself a man; he has begun his distinctively human history and development by an act of disobedience and science - that is, by rebellion and by thought.

God and the State (1871)
Mikhail Bakunin

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/godstate/ch01.htm

Black opposition to gay marriage remains strong

Research shows opinions stubbornly unchanged despite growing mainstream acceptance

JOSHUA LYNSEN
Friday, July 11, 2008

Despite growing support for same-sex marriage in the United States as measured by several recent polls, black Americans remain steadfastly opposed to gay unions.

According to research conducted by the National Black Justice Coalition and several other organizations, as many as two-thirds of black Americans are against gay marriage. Although the numbers vary by poll, research shows most blacks oppose both gay marriage and civil unions.

The findings come as some surveys show a majority of whites have dropped their objections to same-sex unions. A poll by Pew Research Center in May showed that fewer than 50 percent of whites object to gay marriage.

<snip>

In 2004, 36 percent of the HRC survey’s respondents said they strongly opposed civil unions, while another 11 percent were generally opposed. The total opposed jumped this year to 53 percent, according to the Pew Center’s survey in May.

Robinson said opposition to civil unions runs high in part because the purely legal institution is seen as too close to its religious counterpart.

“Civil unions are seen as marriage light,” he said. “It’s not seen as substantially different.”

http://www.washingtonblade.com/2008/7-11/news/national/12917.cfm?page=2

[bluedawg12]

1. I found an article that did explain the history of

AA's and gays. It seems to have pissed a lot of people off yesterday, but it is from a peer reviewed jounral and cites numerous scholars inlcuding prominent AA prof's like Dyson and Cornell West.
I post it not to start another war of words but because it is a scholarly work, I suspect it holds more info. than most personal opinions I have heard and yet no one even read the thing or talked about to say they agreed or disagreed.

I believe information should not be suppressed. The article looks at the historical aspects unique to one culure.

........

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Blacks+%2B+homophobia&fr=slv8-tyc7&u=www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Homophobia%2C_Hypermasculinity_and_the_US_Black_Church.pdf&w=blacks+black+black%27s+homophobia&d=Y-If1kLURufi&icp=1&.intl=us

or, pdf at:

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Homophobia,_Hypermasculinity_and_the_US_Black_Church.pdf.

Culture, Health & Sexuality, September–October 2005; 7(5):
Taylor & Francis
DOI: 10.1080/13691050500151248

Homophobia, hypermasculinity and the US black church

[IndianaGreen]

2. So the slaves found comfort in the god of their white masters?

She explains why black people’s use of the Bible to condemn homosexuality is understandable in the context of their historical experience, as enslaved blacks sought refuge and found freedom in the literalness of Scripture.

Every black pastor that testified to our Indiana legislature this past spring on behalf of a constitutional amendment to deny gays the right to marry, always quoted the Bible as the authority to turn us all into lesser human beings.

I would never accept the god of my oppressors.

BTW, their efforts were defeated!

[madrchsod]

8. how very "christian" of them

enforcing "god`s laws" by the use of the secular laws seems to me contrary to what christ was credited with saying.

using 4000 year old semite tribal laws to influence a multi cultural and multi belief modern society is absurd. yet we are forced have to live with the idea that if we allow gays to marry our tribe will become weak.

[struggle4progress]

5. I found the article, that you link, disappointing: it makes sweeping claims

but provides very little backing up those sweeping claims

The correlation suggested by the article title -- namely, that there is some relation between US African descent churches, some alleged "hypermasculinity" of Afro-American culture, and some alleged homophobia of the "black community" -- is really never examined in any detail in the article. And in fact the suggested correlation (which may not actually exist) couldn't really be supported in detail without many long chapters: a chapter on the history and development of US African descent churches, a chapter defining and examining "hypermasculinity" in general, a chapter discussing why "hypermasculinity" might be expected to overlap homophobia, a field studies chapter discussing "hypermasculinity" in the "black community," a field studies chapter discussing homophobia in the "black community," a results chapter examining measured relations between "hypermasculinity" and homophobia in the "black community" &c&c

The article you link may be a preliminary report of a literature review for such a study -- but in its present form it really provides no significant insight

[bluedawg12]

10. The paper is a meta-analysis.

I agree there could be chapters written on the various concepts they propose.

The paper is a meta-analysis:

"Drawing on a variety of sources, this paper discusses the sources of
homophobia within black communities, and its impact upon self-esteem, social relationships
and physical health."

I agree there are some predicates to the paper at question:

1.)Does homophobia exist in the AA community?
--If it does exist - does it exist to any greater extent then the community at large?
-- Someone showed a Pew Poll result,yesterday ( no direct link) that I recall was slightly higher than for whites.


2.)Is there hypermasculinity? Machismo is how I understand that phrase.
Not enough time for this. The paper says what it says.
....

Looking at homophobia: the author cites a paper by Crawford (2002) and Douglas:

"Although many of them do not support anti-gay discrimination, evidence from media-
based and empirical surveys indicates that significant numbers of people in the USA,
including black people, see homosexual relationships as unacceptable and morally
wrong (Crawford et al. 2002:179–180)."

Douglas (1999:90) argues that Scripture is often the cornerstone of
homophobia in the black community’. She explains why black people’s use of the
Bible to condemn homosexuality is understandable in the context of their historical
experience, as enslaved blacks sought refuge and found freedom in the literalness of
Scripture.

However, going to other non- peer reviewed sources I found that there was concern about homophobia in the AA community as noted in a speech given by the then candidate Barack Obama, although the language was more politic than using the term homophobia:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/25/obama-takes-on-the-black-_n_83234.html

"If we are honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community," Obama told 2,000 worshippers Sunday at Atlanta's Ebenezer Baptist Church, where King once preached.
"We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them."

Yesterday I posted several articles about homophobia, from 2006 or 2007( if I recall) one by Al Sharpton and the other by an AA physician, both dealt with the concern about homophobia in the black community as it relates to cultural secrecy and the dissemination of HIV.

There was also a seminar on this topic within the AA community:

http://blacknews.com/pr/black_church_summit101.html

Rev. Dr. Michael Eric Dyson Headlines National Black Church Summit With a Gay Affirming Focus

Washington, DC (BlackNews.com) - Set in the city of Brotherly love and the birthplace of the Declaration of Independence where all people were declared to be created equal under the law, the National Black Justice Coalition, www.nbjc.org, continues the dialogue of equality and equal justice with a historic and nationwide forum on Black Church Homophobia.

Over three hundred people from across the nation will gather to debate the issue of homosexuality and its role within the Black Church as well as provide solutions on how to create a welcoming and gay affirming church.

Black iconic intellectuals such as the Rev. Dr. Michael Eric Dyson plus several other religious leaders both anti-gay and gay affirming will headline the event and facilitate discussion ranging from HIV and the Black Church to debating the legitimacy of scripture referring to homosexuality.

In addition to Dr. Dyson, other confirmed participants include Bishop Harry Jackson (Maryland), Bishop Yvette Flunder (San Francisco), Rev. Eugene Rivers (Boston), Dr. Kenneth Samuel (Atlanta). Rev. Deborah L. Johnson (Santa Cruz, CA), and Rev. Irene Monroe (Boston).

NBJC Black Church Summit Talking Points:

* What is NBJC?
The National Black Justice Coalition is a nationwide Black gay civil rights organization headquartered in Washington, DC. The mission of the organization is to end to racism and homophobia within the Black communities across America.

* Location/Date/Time:
The 2nd Annual Black Church Summit will be held at the historic Mother Bethel AME Church, 419 S. 6th Street, Philadelphia, PA, Saturday, March 10, 2007, 9am- 5pm.

* Media Briefings/Interviews:
9am – 11:30am, Saturday, March 10, 2007. To schedule time please and any special requests please contact Herndon Davis, at [e-mail] or at 202-349-3755.

* Why is the Black Church Summit important? Why should my media outlet cover it?
The factors of HIV, anti-gay violence and emotional depression are rampant within the Black gay community. Often the Black Church is ill equipped to adequately address these issues which are often swept under the societal rug.

This year's event will once again attract nationally prominent clergy, civil rights leaders, and many opposed to and also affirming of homosexuality. Our goal is to assist the Black Church on how to embrace their lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender friends, neighbors, family, and members of their congregations.

The continued silence of the Black gay community on issues dealing with homophobia has left the entire community vulnerable to the divisive tactics of those who do not have the community's best interest at heart.

* What does NBJC plan to accomplish through the Black Church Summit?
We plan to increase the size of our ongoing Black Church Social Justice Community Action Network which is a national coalition of gay affirming Black churches and clergy who will provide activism on ending Black Church homophobia and discrimination.

* What is NBJC's position on gay marriage?
There is no such thing as same-sex marriage, there is only marriage and we believe that all Americans regardless of race, ethnicity and sexual orientation should have the right to marry the person they love.

..........

Also, there is a web site dedicated to positive out reach specifically for AA GLBT folks, it was excellent had some great monographs such as: "Jumping the BroomStick" about marriage equality was actually used by another GLBT group, it was so seminal.

The group is: National Black Justice Coalition,
www.nbjc.org

If any AA GLBT folks stop bythis thread check out that web site, it is positive and seems inclusive.
........

So, the article cites several authors from other expert sources, I don't have access to those articles at the moment.

Empirical evidence outside of the article, as long as were are on this, does suggest that there is an awareness of this issue with in the AA community and concern.

There is also evidence of pro-activity within that community to combat this situation.

Do I think the AA community is the only one that has any homophobia at all?
No. Of course, we know that homophobia extends across many ethnic, cultural, religious and even international lines.

What is the concern then?

The AA community is traditionally Democrat, I am a Democrat, I want to see a coalition between all segments of the Democratic party base.

I don't expect to go out and dialogue with rw fundy groups in Ala. any time soon, for example, about GLBT issues.

Second, GLBT's come in all races and ethnic backgrounds, to the extent that it may be possible that any GLBT person is oppressed under institutionalized heterosexism and it can be ameliorated that is a "good" to be sought, in talking about change and supporting it. viz a viz Dyson's seminar in 2007. It will not come from outside the AA community, but Democrat GLBT activist cannot even begin to dialogue and coalition building unless we know what the situation is on the ground.

Finally, if I understand the statistics correctly, fear and secrecy have led to disportionately high HIV rates among AA gay/bi men.

So, while I was on the topic of P8 and we were discussing the CNN exit poll(now under question) I found some information.

If there is an issue worth tackling it won't come from me, it will come from within the AA community, but I will support them. If there is no problem or issue, then the peer reviewed journal article, Dyson's seminar, Obama's comment, and other AA activist speaking on this are wrong.

I will only know when I hear from black GLBT's and even then, that will be anecdotal and not a true random sample, but very worthwhile.

If you find anything of value on this topic, please post a link.

[defendandprotect]

3. Homophobia greatly harms any community in which it exists --

and I'm confident-- as the stigma attached to this myth of inferiority lessens --

that every community will awaken to the absurdity of these religious teachings --

[defendandprotect]

4. And, of course, this is based on denial by community/church of ...

legitimacy of any homosexuals among them --

In fact, I suspect they would see homosexuals among them as weakening their society --

Rather, it is this denial which weakens them psychologically, spiritually ...

and health-wise --

[IndianaGreen]

6. Bayard Rustin was a victim of homophobia in his own community

Then in 1960, as Rustin prepared to help King lead protests outside of the Democractic National Convention, Congressman Adam Clayton Powell pressured King to call off the protest, threatening to accuse Rustin and King of having a homosexual affair. King gave in to Powell, and Rustin resigned from King's staff. He was devastated by Powell's ruthlessness and by what he saw as King's betrayal, though he continued to advise the civil rights leader.

In the next few years, Rustin returned to his work in the pacifist movement and led protests against nuclear arms. But he quickly re-involved himself in civil rights activism, when he was asked to organize the highly visible 1963 Civil Rights March on Washington. It was at this venue that King gave his famous "I Have a Dream" speech.

http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/rustin_b.html

[defendandprotect]

7. Sad history ...!!

[madrchsod]

9. i read an article about aids in a gospel magazine...

the article was about the deaths of gospel singers do to aids in the church choirs. it questioned whether or not the gospel community was willing to openly discuss homosexuality within the church. i guess by the events that are taking place they are still unwilling to accept the fact that everyone is god`s children..