Dan Savage: Black Homophobia

[oberliner]

African American voters in California voted overwhelmingly for Prop 8, writing anti-gay discrimination into California’s constitution and banning same-sex marriage in that state. Seventy percent of African American voters approved Prop 8, according to exit polls, compared to 53% of Latino voters, 49% of white voters, 49% of Asian voters.

I’m not sure what to do with this. I’m thrilled that we’ve just elected our first African-American president. I wept last night. I wept reading the papers this morning. But I can’t help but feeling hurt that the love and support aren’t mutual.

I do know this, though: I’m done pretending that the handful of racist gay white men out there—and they’re out there, and I think they’re scum—are a bigger problem for African Americans, gay and straight, than the huge numbers of homophobic African Americans are for gay Americans, whatever their color.

http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/black_homophobia

[liberalmuse]

1. The irony is...

there are a lot of tough guy black rappers and entertainers who are deeply closeted. It doesn't make one less of a man to be gay, and being gay is not a sign of weakness. African American males have been dealt a shitty hand, but being homophobic is not going to make up for that. That being said, there are many black and hispanic males and females who are for civil rights for everyone, regardless of sexuality.

[ikojo]

2. Homophobia IS a big problem in the black community

It is but one reason there is a huge increase in the number of HIV cases in the black community. Because the community cannot come to terms with the presence of gays and lesbians, many, particularly gay men, are forced to live on the "down low" where they hook up with other black men. They then go on to live their double life with a woman.

NYT Magazine article about life on the down low, is here
http://tinyurl.com/572ccd

[oberliner]

3. Tried to access that article but link was not working

Can you check on that link?

[ikojo]

8. Here is a the direct link

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE0D61E3FF930A3575BC0A9659C8B63

[FrenchieCat]

4. I think that this is a divisive approach to the result of the CA proposition.

The Exit polls were based on 200 voters to begin with.....

I think that the approach of being mad at an entire group of people
is not constructive in anyway, even if it helps some vent their anger.

Just like OJ simpson is not interchangeable with Barack Obama, neither are those voters who voted yes on Proposition 8.

As a Black person who voted against Proposition 8, I can tell you know that this will not
help the cause of Gay marriage in a long run.

[Duncan Grant]

9. Everyone loses when Democratic constituencies don't support one another.

You write:

As a Black person who voted against Proposition 8, I can tell you know that this will not
help the cause of Gay marriage in a long run.

Is that a threat?

[jonnyblitz]

10. ALL homophobes need to be called out, even the african

american homophobes. BUT we don't need to blame any one group. THAT i agree with.

[GodlessBiker]

17. So, if 70% of white Dems voted against Barack, we shouldn't say we have a problem,

because that really wouldn't help the cause of electing an African-American president?

[bluedawg12]

5. The asnwer to Savag'es Question about the gay vote

The link worked but it took some time.

http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/11/black_homophobia

"Finally, I’m searching for some exit poll data from California. I’ll eat my shorts if gay and lesbian voters went for McCain at anything approaching the rate that black voters went for Prop 8."

The answer to savages question above:


http://leftinsf.com/blog/index.php/archives/2472

Gay support for Obama in the primaries

Time will tell but the Bay Area Reporter has some preliminary reports:

Elections officials did not return a reporter’s calls for data from Manhattan’s or West Hollywood’s heavily gay voting sites. Officials in San Francisco said precinct-level data – even very preliminary data – will not
be available for several days. Results from those areas could very well change the picture overall concerning LGBT voting trends.

But where details could be found, voters in Boston’s five heavily gay precincts voted for Obama by a margin of 56 percent to Clinton s 44 percent. That support was slightly stronger than found in Boston voters overall who preferred Obama by a slightly weaker percentage – 53 percent to Clinton’s 45 percent.

In Northampton, Massachusetts, which is known to have a heavily lesbian population, 60 percent of voters supported Obama, compared to 40 percent for Clinton.

The exception in Massachusetts was in the resort town of Provincetown. There, 54 percent of voters supported Clinton, compared to 46 percent for Obama.

In San Francisco, unofficial results for the city give Obama the edge – with 52 percent of the vote, compared to Clinton’s 44 percent.
.........
http://www.windycitytimes.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=19735


Data available thus far on voting in heavily gay precincts suggest the gay vote for Obama was at an unprecedented high. In the last several presidential elections, the percentage of LGB voters supporting the Democrat has hovered around 70 to 75 percent. But Election Day voting was much stronger:

—In heavily gay Provincetown, Mass., 87 percent of voters supported Obama, compared to only 11 percent for McCain, and 2 percent for others or no votes. Massachusetts overall voted 62 percent for Obama, and 36 percent for McCain.

—While 61 percent of Californians supported Obama over 37 percent for McCain, 85 percent of heavily gay San Francisco supported Obama—versus 13 percent for McCain and two percent for others.

—Fifty-five percent of voters in Pennsylvania supported Obama over 45 percent for McCain, but in Philadelphia's heavily gay 2nd and 5th wards, 83 percent of voters supported Obama.

—In heavily gay Dupont Circle ( Precinct 15 ) in Washington, D.C., Obama won 89 percent of the vote.

—In the heavily gay precinct 1233 in Dallas, 63 percent of voters supported Obama, while 57 percent of the entire city did so. Fifty-five percent of the state supported McCain.

—Chicago's heavily gay 44th Ward went 86 percent for Obama over 13 percent for McCain.

A Harris poll online survey conducted Oct. 20-27 with 231 self-identified LGBT “likely voters” predicted 81 percent of LGBT voters favored Obama while 16 percent favored McCain. A similar poll in August had shown 68 percent favored Obama, with 10 percent leaning toward McCain.

Patrick Sammon—president of Log Cabin Republicans, a national gay Republican group—said he puts more trust in data from the overall exit poll data nationally, which said once again that 4 percent of voters were GLB and that 70 percent voted for Obama and 27 percent for McCain, with 3 percent for others.

“LGBT voters don't live in just Dupont Circle and Chelsea,” said Sammon in a telephone interview Nov. 5.

But U.S. Rep. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., said both sets of data may be right. The results from precincts that are heavily gay, she said, reflect a demographic that has significant access to information about each candidate's stand on LGBT issues, while the national exit poll is capturing LGB voters in places that may not have that kind of information at the ready. And in those places, she said, LGBT people are “making their minds up on a larger array of issues.”

.........

Edited for coding error and extra article about religious right.

[EFerrari]

6. We need finer tools. There was more than one kind of black yes voter.

There were the actual homophobes. There were the people confused by the filthy Yes ads and then, there were people to whom the case just didn't get made.

Another thing: wtf happened in L.A. County? That's where most gay couples live in this state. I'm asking because I don't know. What happened there? There's no way we win on this without that county.

Alameda County has a black pop of 14%, 3% more than LA County. Alameda County did not vote for H8, 62% NO, iirc. So, :wtf:, L.A. County?

[bluedawg12]

7. Here's another good person to add to the list of GLBT supporters

Adding to our list of pro GLBT people.
Colin Robinson is executive director of the New York State Black Gay Network


http://www.blackaids.org/ShowArticle.aspx?pagename=ShowArticle&articletype=NEWS&articleid=168&pagenumber=1

Psst. Homophobia Causes AIDS. Pass it On.

First Published: 12/19/2005

When we talk about the complexities of African American homophobia, we’ve grown used to commenting about how Gay men’s participation in key roles in the Black church is such a public secret, notwithstanding the Bible-thumping sermon about sex and Sodom that remains a Sunday morning staple. But those of us who work in the AIDS industrial complex have got another public secret, something we all know is true, but that our programs and organizations and policy work don’t really address – that homophobia causes AIDS. I’ll say it again: Homophobia causes AIDS.

I’m tired of having to always qualify this statement when I make it, of having to respond to blinkered arguments that: It’s unsafe sexual behavior regardless of sexual orientation, that’s responsible for HIV infection. That it's not who you are but what you do. I'm tired of sticking to our one-size-fits-all-across-the-board-public-health messages about unprotected sex.

What’s even more tiring are the "Says who?" and "Prove it" schools -- those who seem to require a randomized, double-blind, peer-reviewed study as evidence. Yeah, I know there are better research methods, but go Google “HIV,” “homophobia,” and “Black.” No, seriously: stop reading now and go do it.

If you do it, you’ll find USA Today quoting Coretta Scott King saying homophobia’s one of the most formidable obstacles to AIDS education; former Surgeon General David Satcher apologizing for the inexcusable ways in which homophobia has marginalized gay men and lesbians within the US healthcare system; folks founding a New York City organization to deal with heterosexual Black and Latino folks attributing the rise of HIV among straight folks to homophobia... read more

Colin Robinson is executive director of the New York State Black Gay Network

[Captain Hilts]

11. Wasn't Coretta SKing/MLK's daughter campaigning AGAINST gay marriage????

I think she was in Georgia.

[bluedawg12]

12. Yes, I heard that too. n/t

[Sirveri]

13. The AA vote didn't cause 8 to pass.

AA accounts for less than 10% of CA population. It helped yes, and it's an issue that the AA community needs to address, but it wasn't the sole reason. The sole reason 8 passed was hatred and fear.

My mother is married to a repuke moron (not my biological father). He has voted republican in every election since he could vote and he HATES gay people. He is NOT religious. He voted yes on 8 out of hatred and fear, as did most of the WHITE people living around them. We did not see a single no on 8 sign in their neighborhood in the suburbs of Redding. We did see more than a few yes on 8 signs.

Race is an excuse.
Religion is an excuse.

If the GLBT community was more prevelant in the communities where the majority of these people live, then perhaps it would have failed. But these people hate and kill members of the GLBT community on a regular basis, so they do the intelligent thing and flee the persecution. These are the people who would disown their children for daring to love who they desire.

I don't know how to fix them. But getting rid of the hate preachers on the radio, the pulpit, and the TV would probably be a great start. Calling the advertisers of the right wing radio/tv hosts will demolish them. Revoking tax exempt status from the hate churches will badly burn them. Ultimately what needs to be learned is respect and tolerance for everyone, and that is a much more difficult problem to address.

[tribeofdot]

14. Don't take the eye off the ball.

The surge in church voter support among the Catholic and Mormon for prop 8 is what did this, That’s what put them over the top. and got this cursed prop 8 passed. Me thinks the focus on the African American vote is just attempts by certain conservatives to divide the states liberal coalition against each other.

And a poorly run campaign on our part.

[struggle4progress]

15. Another idiot quotes the bullshit CNN poll. Look at the poll. Its problems are obvious

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

16. And it hurts black LGBT folks the most

Hit by institutionalized racism, and shunned in many of their ethnic communities, these people are really in a tough situation.

And it's bad for me because - gasp! - I find myself especially attracted to black men, and if too many of them are consumed with either homophobia and/or self-loathing and closetedness, it's awfully hard to find an opportunity to date them.

(psst...anybody have any suggestions for LGBTers who are interested in dating interracially?)

[bluedawg12]

18. Where we share an orientation

we may be different in our entire out look and talking a completely different language of priorities.

I am trying to understand. This may be helpful for white people, like me, to understand the experience of GLBTQ people of color.

http://www.ifbprides.org/ifbp_news_june_08_irene.php

Black Pride plays an important role in the larger gay rights movement

The growing gulf between whites and blacks, rich and poor can be seen in the HIV/AIDS epidemic that was once an entire LGBTQ community problem and is now predominately a black one.

Another example of our division can be seen in the white gay ghettos that have developed and thrived safely in neighborhoods throughout the country. However, with homophobia in black communities, where most of us reside, we cannot carve out a black queer ghetto within our existing neighborhoods and expect to realistically be safe.

OUR THEMES FOR Black Pride events are different from the larger Pride events. Black Pride focuses on issues not solely pertaining to gays, but rather on social, economic and health issues impacting the entire black community. For example, where the primary focus and themes in white Prides have been on marriage equality, gay people of African descent have used Pride events to focus on HIV/AIDS, other health issues, gang violence and youth homelessness, to name only a few.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

19. It's a shame that many affluent gays have lost that consciousness.

Those GLBTQ folk who have: have a nice income and a nice partner. They are what marriage rights seem to be mostly about. What about young folks harassed at school? People who can't find dating opportunities? Those of us who can't afford the living expenses of the more gay-inclusive neighborhoods? And what about the homophobia that poorer and/or rural GLBT people have to face?

There seems to be an attitude of "I've got my deal made, except for marriage rights. I don't care about those lowlifes without money and a monogamous relationship." I know of several gay guys who are kind of like that - good career, lots of friends (albeit cliquish ones), and a love of AYN RAND.

[bluedawg12]

20. OK that was uncalled for Ayn Rand! LOL.

Just kidding.

You make excellent points.

I am starting to see it as a product of the two completely different cultural experiences that we emerge from. Or a variety of cultural differences.

Then add the socio-economic differences you mentioned. It's enlightening. I thought everyone was under the same big umbrella, but we are who we are when first born and to whom we are born and where we grow up.

There are many different worlds out there.

So, that plays a role.

I guess if you don't ask, you won't know. I'm trying to learn.

I am more familiar with rural homophobia and it is pretty damned hostile in red Amerika.

[Jamastiene]

22. I have a similar experience too.

"I'm trying to learn. I am more familiar with rural homophobia and it is pretty damned hostile in red Amerika."

Even though my state went blue this time around, it has been a red stronghold forever and a day now. Our small crowd always tries to do our best to support whatever we can, in whatever way we can, for gay marriage, because until those states, who stand a chance at getting some gay rights on the law books, get those rights going, we can hang it up altogether in our area.

We have a very small tight knit bunch here in my hometown that at very mixed in lots of ways. Lucky for me, they are the punk crowd. That's my favorite bunch anyhow. Before I found them, I couldn't find friends I could truly feel at home with and I was always just trying my damnedest to self destruct.

[bluedawg12]

23. Jamastiene - Having supportive friends

and this forum add a lot of good things to life and that's why less young gays are self destructing because things are changing even in red neck rural USA, which I am somewhat familiar with. Isolation and being judged is really bad for us, we can't except their version of us, but, we need to be positive in fighting it. They can't win and we are not alone.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

25. Gay punk crowd? That's interesting.

I don't see a strong gay punk identity in our area, though they are around.

I'm still waiting on the gay hip-hop crowd.

[Jamastiene]

26. GLBT and our allies

It's a small crowd in a small town. It's small, but I'll take it. Better than nothing.

[Jamastiene]

21. Same here.

I like black women a lot of times. I used to have the problem of meeting enough people to get anywhere. You just have to meet A LOT of people of all races to finally meet Mr. Right or Mr. Right Now.

Meet as many people as you can. Find a crowd that is mixed and see who the center of focus is. There is always a certain crowd that is mixed even in crappy little towns like where I live. There always seems to be a "leader" of sorts too. They usually are just the person who is the life of the party. That's usually the person who throws the best parties where you can meet their wide circle of friends.

You have to start in public wherever you can find them first. I despise bars because you can hardly hear anything there, but unfortunately, that's the best place to start looking. When you hear them say something you agree with, smile and let them know you are of like mind. It can be any topic to get your foot in the door. The point is to work your way into that crowd that is mixed and make friends with them.

Usually, those crowds are the best ones anyway. They are the crowds that always seem to have the most positive vibe also. That's your best bet.

Yes, I think a lot of people in the black GLBT community is hurting doubly bad right now. It's more than doubly bad for them from what I hear some of my friends tell me. It's more of a compounded level of hurt, because they see everyone talking in gay/straight black/white only and here they are stuck on the outskirts trying to find a foothold. At least that's what I'm hearing.

I'm mixed with three different races involved, so I'm trying to find a footing somewhere too. I'm not (insert race here) enough to claim any race. I DO wish we could move past the race issue and come together as just GLBT people and our allies regardless of race.

[bluedawg12]

24. Jamastiene - wise words!

About race, just so you know, if it means anything, there is no such biological thing as race, We are all from Africca, according to scientific research, and then people migrated North and all over the world, but we are all the same race, literally. I maybe a different shade than someone, but race does not exist genetically.

Politics and ethnicity and culture exist and creates these divisions.

[Jamastiene]

27. I wish more people knew that.

People are people. Why we have societal "norms" that most people feel the need to stick to so closely, I'll never understand. People are people. Imagine how much better this world would be if the true "melting pot" were allowed to do its thing. The diversity is there. We are just not able to break through and say, "Hey, we are here too and not so different than you!"

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

28. Well I'll do my part to extend a hand

Anybody who is black-GLBT has my wholehearted support in coming out or living or making friends or whatever. Same for all other races and mixes.

[Jamastiene]

29. Thank you

If we stand together, united, we can make MUCH more of a difference. :hug:

[bluedawg12]

30. Well said! n/t