Epiphany! The Cult From Salt + Prop8 = Mittens 2012!

[bluedawg12]

I just had a Eureka moment. It came from QC in another thread.

It goes like this. Why would the Cult From Salt spend millions flogging cultural wars?

Because it unites them with more mainstream religions and that base.

Why?

Because they want Mittens to have no more suspicion in 2012 about his magic undies and such--they propagated- hate-8 (prop8) for Mittens 2012. Wanna bet?

Say, could they be behind the Moose killer- Sasquatch- Barbie leaks and attacks - ya' know, get rid of the current populist?

It makes sense. If I recall from readings - they wanted one of their first leaders to be President and have always had political aspirations from the earliest days and took over a town politically and got run out.

Good grief. But it makes sense.

[az chela]

1. it will never happen

[bluedawg12]

3. Not if we

have a say.

[NMMNG]

2. That's somewhat in line with one of my theories

It had nothing to do with Mittens (at least as far as my theory went). Rather it had to do with their desire to no longer be the bastard stepchild of the Christian family. They consider themselves Christians but most Christian denominations don't, many going as far as to consider them a cult.

So perhaps the Mormons thought that if they spearheaded the Yes on 8 effort and mashed the nasty homos into the ground the RRRW would finally embrace them and give them a ticker tape parade. Of course what they apparently didn't expect is the gay backlash, and how they'd be taking the heat for being on the frontline of the attack against us.

Poor persecuted Mormons. :nopity:


But you may be on the right track...

[bluedawg12]

4. We shall see

they might going for a two 'fer.

They're pretty insular, might wonder why they even care about being embraced by other denominations, while it could be only that ...the repigs have no one, zero, in the forefront and Mittens is young, wealthy and probably thinks he should have been in Sarah's Blahniks???

[Maat]

17. You may be on to something.

The reason I say so is because, prior to the 8 thing, no one would participate in our local Interfaith Council as long as the Mormons were there. Oh, Religious Science, United Church of Christ, the United Methodist Church, and the Unitarians would come, as well as Unity; but, these are the very liberal churches in our area. None of the conservative Christian churches would participate. I declined to participate, despite being a UU, because I didn't want to work with them - because the reps tended to be quite bossy.

In any case, as soon as 8 came on the stage, suddenly, the local Southern Baptist and Lutheran bigots were all pals with our local Mormons, getting together 'to protect marriage.

:puke:

So, in my little Temecula-Murrieta Valley area (1-1/2 hours north of San Diego - inland), it made our local Mormons part of the 'in' crowd in this Southern California Bible Belt.

Hmmm ...

[QC]

5. This is what the Osmonds and Steve Young and others have been used for:

to make Mormons seem like decent, respectable mainstream Christians, not members of a bizarre science fiction and free love cult.

The $cientologists use their own celebrities in exactly the same way.

[bluedawg12]

8. So all of the people who voted for P8

and then voted for Dems were maybe really supporting their own future opposition?

How smart is that? :nuke:

[QC]

9. Bigots aren't known for their smarts. n/t

[bluedawg12]

20. QC- Dont you feel better now? They don't HATE us

They just want to USE us. :rofl:

:evilgrin:

[QC]

26. Hmmm. I have seen a few of those missionaries I would allow to use me. LOL!

[Duncan Grant]

6. You're right.

The first person I saw say it was nichomachus - great minds think alike! According to nichomachus, this has all been an effort to gain credibility with the hardest of hard right Republicans and their ignorant Bible thumping drones. Presto! Change-o! The Mormons are good Christian people just like us.

Spread the word... :hi:

[bluedawg12]

10. Won't this come back to haunt

Yes 8 Dems? :banghead:

I agree we need to get this around.

[Duncan Grant]

12. "Yes on 8" voters have every right to create a context in which they get a "pass" on bigotry.

Thought you heard. :D

[bluedawg12]

16. It's been mentioned

several times.

Oh, this is just too funny...ironic... I'd say schadenfreud but I'd have to spell check...

:evilgrin:

[NMMNG]

21. Well duh

They were just standing up for what they believe in, and defending morality/traditional values. How can anybody disagree with that? :puke:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. You're right that they're trying to befriend right wing Christians....

... however, these very same Christians Mormons helped out by paying the $28,000,000 bill in gay-hating ads, consider Mormons to be non-Christian since Mormons don't believe Jesus is God. Mormons consider Jesus to be a human, plus they believe when a Mormon guy dies he becomes God in his own planet and has multiple wives to have sex with. All of that is HIGHLY objectionable to American Christians.

As long as Republicans need the vote of anti-gay religious whackos to get elected (and how else would they ever be elected if not cheating, lying and getting religious whackos to vote for them), there will never be a Mormon president or Mormon VP.

[bluedawg12]

11. Say! Didn't Mittens flip-flip on gay rights for the Pres bid?

that Mittens is pretty appealing and come to think of it I heard him flip flop on gay rights!!!!

Didn't he you guys?

Now that makes sense, when he was running for the top spot he went all homophobic on us?? :argh:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. Why I think he just might have! Polygamists everywhere are still objecting nt

[bluedawg12]

14. I think we are right on the nose he did flip flop on gays!

This is hilarious--of course the douche was going for Governator of Liberal Mass! So he toned down his anti gay rhetoric and then as candidate two face he revved it up!

From comedian Mittens R*omney the *Worst Person in the Wooooorld!* :rofl:


............

http://myclob.pbwiki.com/gays
Mitt Romney's Gay Policy


Need for Tollerance


“This is a subject about which people have tender emotions in part because it touches individual lives. It also has been misused by some as a means to promote intolerance and prejudice. This is a time when we must fight hate and bigotry, when we must root out prejudice, when we must learn to accept people who are different from one another. Like me, the great majority of Americans wish both to preserve the traditional definition of marriage and to oppose bias and intolerance directed towards gays and lesbians.”
Governor Mitt Romney, 06-22-2004 Press Release
“Preserving the definition of marriage should not infringe on the right of individuals to live in the manner of their choosing. One person may choose to live as a single, even to have and raise her own child. Others may choose to live in same sex partnerships or civil arrangements. There is an unshakeable majority of opinion in this country that we should cherish and protect individual rights with tolerance and understanding. “
Governor Mitt Romney, 06-22-2004 Press Release

read more at this link and watch his sorry @ss get busted...

Added on edit: Because the fawning apologigst writer then has to explain the flip flop and we get to the real truth and how they are spinning his change for the rw:
......
"Romney and Gay Rights, 1994 - 2006; Posted by Dean Barnett 5:36 PM

It’s a long-forgotten moment, but it was a poignant and revealing one. In the wake of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court’s discovery of a right to gay marriage that had been long–hidden in the Commonwealth’s John Adams penned constitution, Governor Mitt Romney had vigorously protested both the substantive result and the judicial arrogance that led to the result.

On the day the decision went into effect, dozens of gay couples descended on Massachusetts’ city and town halls to get married. The TV cameras sought out Governor Romney for his response to the day’s events. The media no doubt expected him to toss some red meat to the knuckle-dragging conservatives that Romney was courting in anticipation of a presidential bid. Instead, Romney pleaded that the public and gay marriage critics in particular bear in mind that this was a happy and joyous day for many individuals, and act respectfully and accordingly.

If you saw him deliver that sentiment on the news, you could see it was heartfelt. You could also see that Mitt Romney would not square with the stereotypical (and of course mistaken) view of a gay marriage opponent. He was not a hater and not a homophobe. Rather, he was a decent man who thought the policy of gay marriage was an unwise one and, regardless of the policy’s wisdom, was disappointed in the judicial overreach that brought it into being.

blah blah blah.... Busted! :evilgrin:







...........

[Jamastiene]

15. Or worse yet, a Mittens/Palin 2012 ticket.

OMFG :puke: I hope we are wrong, but it does make sense as a possibility.

[bluedawg12]

18. Ha, ha, ha-- I was about to say that-LMAO!

Here's some more Mitten's sorry tales of quadruple talk :evilgrin:

http://glassbooth.org/explore/index/mitt-romney/14/gay-rights/15/

As Governor of Massachusetts, Romney actively opposed the Mass. Supreme Judical Court's ruling to allow same-sex marriage. The New York Times reported on Romney's actions: " With only a month before same-sex marriages are to become legal in Massachusetts, Gov. Mitt Romney made a last-ditch effort on Thursday to keep them from taking place for at least two and a half years. Mr. Romney said he would ask state lawmakers to pass emergency legislation allowing him to petition the state's Supreme Judicial Court to stay its ruling making gay marriage legal as of May 17. The governor wants the court to postpone same-sex marriages until a constitutional amendment banning them has a chance to be approved by voters. That would not be until November 2006, because the amendment must be passed again in the 2005-6 legislative session."


"In Massachusetts, Romney has been one of the most aggressive backers of a proposed gay-marriage ban aimed for the 2008 ballot. He filed a suit with the SJC to force it onto the ballot."


"Romney, during a 1994 run for the Senate against Kennedy, expressed support for gay rights. But the candidate said he opposes same-sex marriage and civil unions: 'I supported the federal effort for traditional marriage, defining marriage as a relationship between a man and woman one of the major purposes of marriage is the nurturing and development of children. And society has, from the beginning of recorded time, established marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman because access to both genders is helpful in the development of a child."


Mitt Romney opposes civil unions
"I'd rather have neither , to tell you the truth. I'd rather have domestic partnership benefits such as visitation rights for same-sex couples. I don't want civil unions or gay marriage."



"As a candidate for governor in Massachusetts, Romney called on the Republican Party to provide 'more support' for the gay and lesbian community. Since beginning his White House bid, Romney has toughened his rhetoric on civil unions and same-sex marriage, both of which he now opposes."



Mitt Romney supports extending federal rights and benefits to same-sex couples
In 1994, Romney said: "I think when people have a commitment to one another, either a heterosexual or homosexuals relationship, that they should have the benefit of visitation rights and leave privileges and things of that nature. The question for me in regards to the health care benefits would be to determine what the cost is, what the implications are, where one would draw the boundaries , how one would define commitment. And those are areas I haven't studied so I won't take a position on that. I do support generally the proposition that people in homosexual relationships should not be discriminated against in terms of employment benefits."


"All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual orientation. While he does not support gay marriage, Mitt Romney believes domestic partnership status should be recognized in a way that includes the potential for health benefits

[NMMNG]

23. I think I just felt my hair turn white

:yoiks:

I would move to Canada (or maybe even farther away) if that happened.

[Jamastiene]

27. Hell, I'd probably hitchike my way there myself.

Something. I'd simple NEED to get the hell outta dodge if that happened.

[bluedawg12]

29. Don't think he would win - but imagine another 2 years

of listening to the gay bashing, family values rhetoric, of a Mittens/Barbie campaign.

While Mclame down played the cultural wars, Barbie fanned the flames of that war as does Mittens.

[tribeofdot]

19. I suspect there is more an effort...

To upset the balance in the state of California then some nefarious Mormon takeover.

Think about how much play the African American vote for prop 8 is getting and see the effect it is having, it's definitely strings being pulled to divide the states liberal coalition. Either by chipping off the African Americans or trying to coax the GLBT to go rogue for a bit. Either way I suspect something is afoot to create division.

55 electoral votes and a lot of political hey for the conservatives is being made of this.

[bluedawg12]

22. tribeofdot - There are many advantages

for them.

Yes, they can split the progressive coalition AA vs. GLBT. That's an old strategy the rw has been working on for sure.

But, and of course I don't have my magic undies to see into the mysterious pathway of fate, but if you look at the strong involvement of the cult from Salt the millions they spent and the number of people the sent out to canvass and then recall Mittens flip-flops on gays and consider there is no strong GOP on the back bench waiting in line-- Mittens may see this as his moment -- up next!

[tribeofdot]

25. I worry more about the split.

Who ever worked the evil magic in the media has many up in arms and feeling as if they have been betrayed. I managed to not get upset and just chalk it up to a poor campaign and getting bested by some dirty tricks but others are getting angry and it's horrible what it's doing to some of us.

But as for the rise of Mittens I doubt it, even if he did see a rise he still has the Palintologists to contend with. And While this situation in my state has left me a bit heart broken I have faith in Obama. By 2012 I am hopeful the Democrats will be so popular and successful in policy that the GOP might as well not even run a presidential candidate. :) (Sure it's farfetched but I am hopeful)

[bluedawg12]

28. Well, there are two parts to the future

The first is the scenario where pro-gay judges, SCOTUS, DOMA, DADT laws will all create a favorable climate and make incremental changes to further the cause of civil rights for GLBTs.

The second is what concerns me. I will say this again, the dirty tricks fell on fertile soil. If latent feelings against gays were not there the same dirty tricks that were identified and failed against Obama, should have been identified and failed against gays.

Why didn't people believe the crap spewed by the ton against Obama? Because people had an underlying faith in him and understood from the start that they were false.

Why did the so called dirty tricks against gays work? Because once the veneer of tolerance, "live and let live," as opposed to acceptance of gays as human beings deserving of human rights, was scratched, and the really nasty smears about gays were trotted out, the facade cracked and people were all too ready to believe the sh*t that was being spouted.

Now, we need to start in our own ranks as Dems and figure out who these people were and why they feel that way- why they feel that it's so easy to allow dirty tricks to gain credibility, and then we can go to work to change it.

It reminds me a little of the argument in the pre-election season, when certain people ( in general, not DU)started to say things like: well Obama is a (fill in the blank), or mentioned is middle name over and over again, we all called it for what it was, we all knew that some people just needed any excuse not to vote for him and we knew what that was all about.

As far as the Calif campaign:

"...just chalk it up to a poor campaign and getting bested by some dirty tricks..."

Don't forget, many gays were actively also working for and donating to Obama during the same time.

As far as the c'est la vie attitude, unless we understand where the crack in the progressive coalition came from, we can't fight it in the future.

Put another way, if say for example a hypothetical : if 45% of Dems voted against Obama, there would be great interest in understanding what happened.

[tribeofdot]

30. Well I can say this....

Whatever voodoo spell the right has cast is pretty effective as I had had a great friend who has basically said "stop menstruating over this it's not a real issue" and other things to basically belittle gays as just bad people. Which he being black and probably the only person as liberal as me left me pretty shell shocked. Now he basically avoids me. And looking at how quickly everyone in the state is turning on each other has me concerned.

And the only thing more horrifying to me then that loss of a friend is how quickly some have turned to other forms of prejudice over this split towards my former friend and others.

Maybe I'm naive but I didn't think there was such hatred and prejudice in the hearts of so many Californians.

[bluedawg12]

31. It's not a real issue

kind of says it all.

I have walked away from many people I thought were friends, when around Tues. before and after the Prop8 vote I saw their mask of so called "tolerance" fall away and they revealed the extent of their internalization of homophoibc hate speech.

I really don't know how to "beg" people to see me/us GLBT's as human, how to defend my life and whom I love and not quite sure why I even have to, in the name of fighting on.

"Maybe I'm naive but I didn't think there was such hatred and prejudice in the hearts of so many Californians."
I was naive too, and maybe living in denial. But that is another piece of the puzzle, all of that homophobic propaganda sinks in and people start to believe it on some level.

I found this interesting, the NY Times called the outcome before the election.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21gay.html?_r=2&scp=10&sq=gay%20marriage%20ban&st=cse&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[bluedawg12]

24. The dream of cult Presidency started in 1844

the first guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Jr.

>>(Smith) ran for President of the United States in 1844, and during the campaign, his part in the Nauvoo City Council's decision to suppress a newspaper that had published accusations against Smith led to his assassination by a mob of non-M’s.<<

[bluedawg12]

32. Burying Mittens

Remember this man and his cynical flip flop in gays.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/108793?tid=relatedcl

Burying Mittens
Romney failed because he ran as something he's not.
Feb 7, 2008
Howard Fineman

Here lieth the campaign of Mitt Romney, victim of the mistaken belief that the only way to succeed in national Republican politics was to turn yourself into something you are not. Or maybe the campaign revealed what his closest friends never imaged him to be. They thought he was a decent classy guy. But maybe he really is a soulless throat-cutter who would do and say anything to win.

I have covered a lot of presidential campaigns, and I can't think of one that so lost its way-so expensively-as that of the former governor of Massachusetts. A board room and business favorite, a man with a Midas managerial touch, he was widely admired and even beloved. But he was a Republican of an old moderate school-that of his own father-and, like George W. Bush, Romney the Younger decided that he had to jettison all that he was to become something that he was not.

All of that was Romney's own doing. But he also was damaged by a factor over which he had no control and, to his credit, he didn't seek to mute--his Mormonism. In the Bible Belt, his faith is anathema...


.........
http://www.newsweek.com/id/109478?tid=relatedcl

How M*rm*ns Saw Mittens
In wooing evangelicals, he made some fellow LDS members uneasy.

Early in his presidential bid, Romney was asked what he thought of polygamy. Prompted by what they considered a divine revelation, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued the practice more than a century ago, and the church distances itself from polygamist "fundamentalists." But Romney went one step further, saying he couldn't "imagine anything more awful than polygamy." Many Mormons were privately taken aback. Mormons believe that, in its time, "plural marriage" was a commandment from God, and they are, as a group, fiercely proud of their ancestors, hundreds of whom practiced polygamy. (Romney's own great-grandfather had five wives.) LDS church members loathe the polygamy stereotypes and jokes bandied by outsiders. But hearing Romney—the most recognizable face of their faith these days—disavow it in those terms was mildly unsettling to LDS insiders.

Others were puzzled to hear Romney say he reads the Gideon Bible—a version popular with evangelicals: Mormons uniformly study the King James version, in a Salt Lake edition that is cross-referenced to all other Mormon scripture. "Seems like he just figured he had to say the safest, most Protestant thing he could think of—that was kind of annoying," says Russell Arben Fox, a Mormon professor of political science at Friends University in Wichita, Kans.

In his December speech on religion and politics, Romney said that when taking the oath of office, it would become his "highest promise to God." Some Mormons noted that church members are supposed to regard their temple covenants as their highest promises to God—which in Romney's case would include the temple ceremony where he was "sealed" to his wife, Ann. Still, Mormons overwhelmingly said they saw no conflict between fulfilling the duties of the presidency and honoring temple covenants.

..............