This is a constitutional crisis, nothing less.

[Maat]

That's how I feel about the passage of Prop. 8. California's constitution was used to eliminate a fundamental right (the right to marry) of a protected class (the GLBT community), instead to establish or guarantee or protect a right.

Because of this, I will dedicate a large chunk of my free time to eliminating this horror, one way or another (Prop. 8).

That is all.

In Solidarity,

[AndyA]

1. Keith Olbermann's Special Comment last night regarding this was very moving.

He almost seemed like he was going to cry a couple of times.

People don't seem to understand that crap like this just opens the door to more discrimination in the future. Are we going to continue taking steps backwards?

[Maat]

2. No, I say!

Keith was very moved; my respect for him grew.

[bluedawg12]

4. K kicked

some @ss yesterday, but the rest of the meally mouthed so called liberal media has been strangely silent other than some news stories about protests.

I am not a second rate human being, nor a second rate citizen. None of us in the GLBTQ community are.

It is one week today--never forget H8!

[Maat]

6. Never.

Thanks for the kick, Bluedawg12!

[bluedawg12]

3. In solidarity!

I am with you 100%.

This issue, the health and well being of our community, cohesiveness is my single minded priority after last weeks dehumanizing outcome.

It has been one week today! Never forget.

Not only was there a vote taking away human rights by our fellow gleeful human beings but it was preceded by months of hate being spewed. The type of thing they do to try to demoralize us.

They were wrong. The inter net gives us power and we are no longer isolated and we do not cower in fear.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

5. I'm WIth You, bludawg12

I'm with you 100%. This crap has got to stop. I am tired of hearing the politically correct on this board screaming "racism" when we pointed out the badly-skewed AA vote. These people and everyone else who voted "yes" on the piece of filth known as Prop H8 voted to take away a fundamental civil right from fellow human beings. Don't like it? We don't like having our civil rights voted on!!! We have every right to point out those who are against us.
Not for vengeance but so we know who we have to do outreach to in the future.

[Maat]

8. If someone voted for it, and particularly if they donated to the Hate Campaign,

then we will hold them accountable!

http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/?Search+Again=

[bluedawg12]

9. You betcha!

Accountability will determine my future activism, volunteerism and donation efforts.

You f*cking betcha ya!

[Maat]

7. Exactly (n/t)!

[jonnyblitz]

10. thank you , Maat!

I do appreciate our straight allies and I am so glad to see you and others posting and participating in this forum. :hug:

[Maat]

13. Thanks, Jonny!

This is a really good place to keep up with all of the No-H8 activities, as well as a good place to chat and show support for my GLBTQ friends. We can make sure we have the latest legal news on the battle to get 8 struck from the California Constitution, and the best sites on which to support that legal fight.

A hug to all those who have great suffered from this 8-related horror (and all other crap):
:hug: :grouphug:

[RedLetterRev]

11. K/R

I'm tired of being used as a scapegoat and political football just so some freaks can get their jollies and the über-rich can get richer. My partner and I will have been together for 13 years this coming February, which is more than I can say for any other marriage in my family. Our home is a quiet place of love, peace, mutual respect, happiness, joy, and friendship. WTF is so threatening about that? I can only guess that it must come down to this: that which the wackgelicals aren't willing to work for in their own lives, they must destroy in the lives of others.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[foxfeet]

14. As if no heterosexuals ever

engage in "poopy sex."

[Jamastiene]

23. Isn't that the most juvenile thing you have ever heard?

I cannot believe that post is still up. What are we dealing with here? Junior high school bullies? That's just preposterous. That post should be taken down.

[petgoat]

49. It's not preposterous. It's a clear-eyed assessment of the socio-political landscape.

You guys need some fresh air in here.

[Maat]

15. Stop hijacking my thread!

Go away!

This is about constitutional rights, not about what you like or dislike!

[petgoat]

16. As the OP made clear, it's about your feelings about Constitutional Rights.

I'm just talking politics here. Some folks feel differently than you do.
If you want to influence them, you have to get out of your comfort zone and
talk to people who don't live in the Castro.

But if you expect to change them, you're going to have to be open to them
changing you too.

[Maat]

18. You are not talking politics.

You're just trying to provoke. There is nothing positive that has come from your posts. I should have alerted on them.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kenny blankenship]

21. So when gay people insist on their rights as full and equal human beings

and place their stable relationships first as what defines them (as in getting legally married), instead of placing it on their "sexual behavior", they are in your view doing the intolerable, the un-condonable, and merit the disrespect homophobes dish out to them. Nice. I guess there's nothing we can do to make bigots stop being bigots.

BTW: insisting on LEGAL RECOGNITION of your human rights isn't "suing for respect" or demanding that other people like you. You are still free to hate us. You just can't use the laws to demonstrate that hate, and make us feel hated with the strong arm of the state. Got it?

[Duncan Grant]

22. I don't suppose the way my community responded to AIDS earned your respect?

We did that without any help from "you".

I don't give a god damn about your respect, we'll do this without you. Go fuck yourself.

[Maat]

24. You are kidding, right?

Equal protection of the law is guaranteed to all - in the states' constitutions and in the U.S. Constitution.

[QC]

25. No, there are some real knuckledraggers around here. n/t

[Maat]

27. No kidding, QC!

If you don't believe in equality and equal protection of the law, you're not really a progressive; and, you don't belong on this Board.

[petgoat]

34. Equal protection of the law means everyone is equally free to marry the opposite sex. nt

[uppityperson]

36. Yeah! And whites are free to marry other whites! Blacks too!

Equal rights to marry people of the same color! Woohoo!

[Maat]

38. My guess is that you haven't read the caselaw that closely ...

either the Federal or the State (I suggest reading In Re Marriage). Equal protection of the law refers to an adult's right to marry the competent adult of one's choice. It's a fundamental right that is weighed against a compelling interest. I'd like to see a government demonstrate a compelling interest against same-sex marriage. They can't - and what you think is icky isn't a compelling interest. That tired old saw, 'what's best for children,' has been disproven by science. I certainly wouldn't want to be the idiot lawyer trying to argue that.

I think that you might be better off on another board, certain non-progressive talking points being what you're comfortable with - and all.

[petgoat]

40. I didn't say I think it's icky. I said THEY think it's icky,

The reason I am putting forth non-progressive views is because I
think it's important, when analyzing an election defeat, to
understand the reasons why.

[uppityperson]

42. Oh, of course, you are talking about "them".

How ever could any of us thought differently, what with your putting forth non-progressive views simply to make sure we all understood why you stated gay sex is icky.

[petgoat]

43. I said most people think it's icky. I didn't express a personal opinion.

Why should anybody care what I think?

I'm at DU to talk about politics, not to socialize.

[uppityperson]

45. "most people think it's icky" isn't a personal opinion?

After all "Equal protection of the law means everyone is equally free to marry the opposite sex".

[petgoat]

47. If you're disputing the axiom, please provide evidence that it's wrong. nt

[uppityperson]

50. No, calling you on your non-"personal opinion".

[petgoat]

51. So you can't dispute its truth, you just don't like it. nt

[uppityperson]

52. If you truly believe "most people think it's (gay sex) icky" isn't a personal opinion, prove it.

edited to include what you wrote about "it" being poopy sex, which was deleted.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnykmarshall]

64. So glad this mother fucker got T/S'd.

[AntiFascist]

66. It's more than just "icky" to them...

it often goes against their church's teachings. That's why the Yes on 8 ads were so effective because, one of them in particular, focused on the young daughter of a Catholic family asking 'what about her?' If she learns that gay marriage is ok in her school then could this turn her against her church?

I certainly don't support this viewpoint, but I'm trying to point out one reason why Catholics and Mormons may feel that they are under attack. As far as I know, churches never took a strong position on miscegenation laws, except maybe in Georgia:

http://www.oah.org/pubs/magazine/family/cruz-berson.html

I think a distinction needs to be made between teaching tolerance and teaching that something is necessarilly 'good' or 'bad'. If churches could be convinced that tolerance is what should be taught in schools (both religious tolerance AND sexual orientation) then maybe the Yes on 8 ads would be less effective.

[uppityperson]

26. "building an identity around behavior that most people are only barely willing to tolerate" WTF?

"building an identity around behavior that most people are only barely willing to tolerate, let alone
condone "

What. The. Fuck?

Earning respect by being a committed couple, involved with the community, with friends and family, this is something "most people are only barely willing to tolerate, let alone condone"?

You seem to be of the mindset that anyone who is gay is spending most of their time having anal sex, and this is what their identity is. Good lord. Where the hell did you get that attitude from? Shame on you.

[Zuiderelle]

28. Where do you people COME from? And why are you allowed to stay here?

You are "barely willing to tolerate, let alone condone" our lives????

Fuck you.

[petgoat]

30. No not me. I said "most people". Red America. Black voters. nt

[Zuiderelle]

31. Where do you get the idea that most people think such things?

And what on earth do you think it contributes to this conversation to pass on the nasty shit you THINK others think?

[petgoat]

33. Umm, maybe the vote on prop 8? nt

[Zuiderelle]

37. Fuck you.

And please get out of our forum.

[petgoat]

41. Just curious. How can anyone be a Pelosi fan?

I mean, what's to admire?


Is it her gutlessness? Her vapidity? Her spinelessness?
Her complicity with neofascism? Her de facto endorsement
of torture and illegal wiretapping?

[Zuiderelle]

61. Good riddance, asshole.

:hi:

[Zuiderelle]

29. You win. This is THE most repulsive post I've read on DU.

Why are you so filled with hate, and what are you doing posting on a democratic message board?

[petgoat]

I'm not filled with hate. I've lived in red states a lot of years, and I'm just trying to tell

you how it is in real life outside of Mark Leno's Assembly district
so you understand some of the political realities so that maybe you
can find an effective way to deal with it.

[Zuiderelle]

35. I'm glad your hateful, repulsive, disgusting, insulting post was deleted.

Now if they can just delete you.

Many people were disgusted by blacks intermingling with whites once too, do you think they should have found a way to reach those assholes? There is NO reaching stupid bigoted assholes. And you repeating what you THINK they think here is just as bad.

It is NOT that way in "Real life" my friend. I've been gay for 27 years, and I've experienced acceptance and bigotry, but never all of one or the other. I've lived in Red states and Blue states, in the south, the east, the west and the north. Where I live now, in a relatively small town, my partner and I are accepted fully as parents and neighbors and PTA members. Maybe YOU need to educate yourself on "real life." The reality is that we are discriminated against in the most fundamental way, and we need to FIGHT for our rights. We're done bending over backward asking for favors from people who "tolerate" us. I'm no less an American citizen than any one of the other parents at my son's school. I deserve the same rights, and I WILL FIGHT FOR THEM.

[TechBear_Seattle]

65. You want political reality? Ok: You ARE filled with hate

You hate the fact that the Constitution guarantees rights that you find icky.

You hate the fact that people get agitated and become prone to action when those rights are affirmed by the court and then stripped away by people like you who feel they know better than the courts.

You hate the fact that there are an awful lot of Americans who directly oppose your hate and are all too willing to call your bullshit for what it is.

[greeneyedboy]

17. K&R--and donating to NCLR and Lambda Legal NOW for the legal battle.

The California Supreme Court must overturn this.

[yardwork]

20. I agree.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[madmadmad]

39. absolutely right!

this is indeed one of those things i thought could never happen in america today- the majority taking away rights form the minority. god only knows, i hate the way many of the people who voted against us practice their religion, but i would never, ever, dream of taking away any of their constitutional rights to do so.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

46. Karl Rove lost the election for Kerry.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cboy4]

54. Are you the DU ambassador to Free Republic?

Throwing teh gays under the bus for costing the 2004 election.

Yea, it had nothing to do with the swiftboating and kerry not fighting back.

It was all teh gays fault. :puke:

[petgoat]

55. Gay Marriage was Karl Rove's wet dream. Nothing bigoted about saying that. nt

[cboy4]

56. So you repeat some of the tired old anti-gay talking points that

the moderators deleted?

You're a genius.

Not.

[petgoat]

57. I'll suppose that the mods are initially sensitive to public opinion, and upon reflection

become sensitive to reason.

It's been known to happen. :hi:

[cboy4]

58. What they are sensitive to is homophobes spewing

the same type of filth we can read at Free Republic.

And persistent violators are in danger of being banned.

It's been known to happen. :hi:

[petgoat]

59. I'm not spewing hate. I'm urging gays to get off their rectal dime and consider the movement

I don't care what you do. I care what voters think about it.

[Zuiderelle]

62. goodbye

:hi:

[uppityperson]

63. Thank you MODS for tsing this poster.

[cboy4]

60. Thank you for this Maat....the cancer has been striken

from your thread. :)