Conspiracy theory...... or something there.....

[ellius101]

Just read on another blog that BILLIONAIRE Howard Ahmanson, major financier of Yes on Prop 8 (he donated a fortune) is also the main financier of the election machine company ES&S.
Upon further investigation it appears that ES&S machines were used in California to the tune of over 6 million votes.

In other words, and I quote: "Six million voters on the rolls (potentially) in 14 California jurisdictions voting for or against this unlawful proposition on a voting system financed by a Neo-Christian-Fundamentalist-Billionaire-Wacko-Extremist"
The blog is also stating that "This should be posted as priority across the blogosphere--in big, bold, red-letter font. An action alert should be issued"

[madmadmad]

1. that shit is DISTURBING!

what if prop 8 *didn't* actually pass?

[Jamastiene]

2. I would say that is definitely suspicious.

:kick:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

3. No link, no profile, no star... no credibility.

[ellius101]

4. Excuse me???

Want to put your money where your mouth is?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

5. Want to provide a link?

[ellius101]

8. okay, I'll put my money where my mouth is..

Look at the comments #'s 28 all the way to #38. Open the links that are provided and read ALL the articles.. You'll get an eyeful.
When you're done, you can come back and apologize.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6657#comments

READER COMMENTS ON
"On Prop 8 on Veterans Day..."

[FreeState]

9. Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Ahmanson,_Jr.

Howard Fieldstead Ahmanson, Jr (born 1950) is an heir of the Home Savings bank fortune built by his father, Howard Fieldstead Ahmanson, Sr. Ahmanson Jr. is a multi-millionaire philanthropist and financier of the causes of many conservative Christian cultural, religious and political organizations.

He lives in Orange County, California. He has been married to journalist Roberta Green Ahmanson since 1986. He is somewhat reclusive and has Tourette syndrome;<1> his wife usually communicates with the media and others on his behalf.....

In 2008 Ahmanson's company Fieldstead and Co. contributed $995,000 to the YES on 8 campaign according to the Los Angeles Times "Follow the donors" page. Prop 8 which was on the November 2008 ballot for California voters eliminated the rights of homosexual couples to marry. <10>
....


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/21/141451/96/135/609050

American Information Systems (AIS) was primarily funded with money from Ahmanson brothers, William and Robert, of the Howard F. Ahmanson Co. The majority stake in ES&S is still owned by Howard F. Ahmanson and the Ahmanson Foundation


------

http://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/searched.php?ec=allall&state=CA&equipment_type%5B%5D=All+Types&vendor%5B%5D=Election+Systems+%26+Software&model%5B%5D=All+Models&vvpat=all&submit=Search&rowspp=50&topicText=&stateText=

Searched the Verifier

Search results for:
Equipment Used For: All Equipment
In Selected State: California
Type of Voting Equipment: All Types
Equipment Vendor: Election Systems & Software
Model: All Models
Paper Type: All Equipment
Jurisdictions: 14 | Total registered voters in search results: 6,232,659


-----

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0811/S00061.htm

ES&S Opti-Scan Machines Found Miscounting By 4%

[ellius101]

11. Thanks Freestate

You said it a lot better than I could :)

[TheWraith]

6. Everything else aside, I'm getting tired of this "magic election stealing machine" nonsense.

The electronic voting machines are bad because they're unreliable, insecure, and unaccountable. Not because they swing every election that's held on them a certain way.

Now if you could prove that those 14 jurisdictions voted substantially different than ones of similar makeup and demographics that didn't have electronic voting, that would be a different matter.

[yardwork]

15. It's true that Ahmanson is a dominionist. So is Templeton, another big supporter of Prop 8.

They want to "reform" the U.S. Constitution along biblical lines - their interpretation of biblical lines. The result would look a lot like the Taliban.

[Psyop Samurai]

7. Oh, there's something there alright...

And as Gore Vidal points out, "conspiracy theory" is the new term for "unspeakable truth".

There is nothing new about Ahmanson, his anti-gay agenda, or ES&S. All of this is known. If Peace Patriot sees this thread, he'll tell you all about it.

I do not personally know how many ES&S machines were in use in California. I hope that some of our election integrity specialists will comment.

[KitchenWitch]

10. He donated 1.3 million to Yes on 8 according to my calculations

from http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/ under the name Fieldstead and Co.

[autorank]

12. Good for you. Been there

and many have pointed this out. He's no longer involved but it's relevant.

Guess who ran it back then? http://www.guvwurld.org/cgi-bin/live.cgi?d=%2FVoting%2FWhose%20Florida%20-%20Sen%20Hagel%20Admits%20Election%20Systems%20and%20Software%20Ownership%20-%201-31-03.txt

[starroute]

13. I don't think he's involved with ES&S any more

I may be getting my election machine history confused, but I believe Ahmanson was funding ES&S when it started in the 90's but has had no connection with the business recently. At any rate, please double check this before you take it any further.

[ellius101]

14. From Daily Kos

"American Information Systems (AIS) was primarily funded with money from Ahmanson brothers, William and Robert, of the Howard F. Ahmanson Co. The majority stake in ES&S is still owned by Howard F. Ahmanson and the Ahmanson Foundation

Howard Ahmanson belongs to Council for National Policy, a hard right wing organization and also helps finance The Chalcedon Institute. As the institute's own site reports, Chalcedon is a "Christian educational organization devoted to research, publishing, and promoting Christian reconstruction in all areas of life... Our emphasis on the Cultural or Dominion Mandate (Genesis 1:28) and the necessity of a return to Biblical Law has been a crucial factor in the challenge to Humanism by Christians in this country and elsewhere..." Chalcedon promotes Christian Reconstructionism, which mandates Christ's dominion over the entire world. The organization's purpose is to establish Old Testament Biblical law as the standard for society"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/21/141451/96/135/609050

[bluedawg12]

16. Here's some more info about him and other big donors

Also from here and mentions Blackwater mercenary co., who made a fortune in the Iraq war, the Eric Prince family and then Ahamanson and John Templeton of the Templeton Mutual Fund, Co.

Ironic, from Forbes magazine, the old man himself was bi.

Looks like the rw big money power structure came out to slap down the gays in force.


.......
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/10/27/ap5608493.html

>>The money pouring into the 13 committees promoting or challenging the measure has come from prominent religious conservatives and gay rights activists, Hollywood actors and moguls, teachers and CEOs.

Individuals who identified themselves as retirees and homemakers accounted for the most donations, giving more than $11 million. Self-identified lawyers gave $2.3 million.

On the yes side, the Knights of Columbus, based in New Haven, Conn., is the measure's largest single contributor so far, having given $1.4 million. Other top contributors to the Yes on 8 campaign were

Irvine banking heir Howard Ahmanson Jr.'s Fieldstead and Co. foundation ($1.1 million);

John Templeton Jr., son of the late Bryn Mawr, Pa., investor John Templeton ($900,000); the Tupelo, Miss.-based American Family Association ($500,000), and

Elsa Prince, ($450,000), mother of Blackwater founder Erik Prince.

Knights of Columbus spokesman Patrick Korten said the Catholic fraternal organization has backed amendments limiting marriage to a man and a woman in every state where they have appeared. But none of the group's other contributions has come close to what the Knights are putting into the Proposition 8 race.<<

[AntiFascist]

17. I'm curious about Orange County, CA....

According to an LA Times webpage I was linking to a lot previously, Orange County was the biggest contributing county for Prop 8. I wonder who else were the largest contributors in Orange County besides Ahmanson or others in his companies?

From an article by Bob Fritakis:

http://www.markswatson.com/votefraud04.pdf

In the early 1980s, brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich founded ES&S’s originator, Data
Mark. The brothers Urosevich obtained financing from the far-Right Ahmanson family in
1984, which purchased a 68% ownership stake, according to the Omaha World Herald.
After brothers William and Robert Ahmanson infused Data Mark with new capital, the
name was changed to American Information Systems (AIS). California newspapers have
long documented the Ahmanson family’s ties to right-wing evangelical Christian and
Republican circles.

In 2001, the Los Angeles Times reported, “. . . primarily funded by evangelical Christians
– particularly the wealthy Ahmanson family of Irvine – the institute’s $1-
million annual program has produced 25 books, a stream of conferences and more than
100 fellowships for doctoral and postdoctoral research.” The chief philanthropists of the
Discovery Institute, that pushes creationist science and education in California, are
Howard and Roberta Ahmanson.

According to Group Watch, in the 1980s Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr. was a member of the highly secretive far-Right Council for National Policy, an organization that included
Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, Major General John K. Singlaub and other Iran-Contra
scandal notables, as well as former Klan members like Richard Shoff. Ahmanson, heir to
a savings and loan fortune, is little reported on in the mainstream U.S. press. But, English
papers like The Independent are a bit more forthcoming on Ahmanson’s politics.


...

The Ahmanson family sold their shares in American Information Systems to the
McCarthy Group and the World Herald Company, Inc. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel
disclosed in public documents that he was the Chairman of American Information
Systems and claimed between a $1 to 5 million investment in the McCarthy Group. In
1997, American Information Systems purchased Business Records Corp. (BRC), formerly
Texas-based election company Cronus Industries, to become ES&S. One of the BRC
owners was Carolyn Hunt of the right-wing Hunt oil family, which supplied much of the
original money for the Council on National Policy.

[ellius101]

18. Just read he also funded a nutball who advocated death by stoning

for gays and lesbians.

http://www.buzzflash.net/story.php?id=78817

[Psyop Samurai]

19. Nah..., you're just paranoid...

:sarcasm:

Howard Ahmanson, the wealthy, rabidly anti-gay heir to a Los Angeles banking fortune, craves obscurity because it allows him to do his dirty deeds in the dark. Now it has been brought to light that he was the third largest private donor to Prop 8, the ballot initiative that revoked the right of gays to marry in California. Ahmanson was an acolyte and major funder of the late R.J. Rushdoony, a theocrat who advocated death by stoning for gays. Ahmanson also gave $1 million to launch a smear campaign against openly gay Episcopal bishop Eugene Robinson. At the very least, lets hope the glare of publicity tracks Ahmanson's every action from now on.

[ellius101]

20. Wow.....look at what's breaking news

From Demdog in GD

Election Irregularities Surfacing Re: California's Proposition 8!

Volunteers Needed NOW to Monitor Post-Election Procedures

Link Below to Flyer: Please Print and Circulate at Tomorrow's Protests!

The Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgender (GLBT) Community and its supporters nationwide are mourning and organizing in the wake of last week's announced 52-48% passage of Proposition 8, which eliminates the rights of same-sex couples to marry in the state of California. But an accurate count of the votes may not yet have occurred, according to early indications.

The integrity of an election takes time to investigate, and it's far too early to draw conclusions. However, consider the following:

Around the world, exit polls are used to determine the need for investigation of elections. In the U.S., the National Exit Poll (NEP, also known as Edison/Mitofsky) now adjusts results to match vote counts before issuing its final polling numbers. Election Defense Alliance downloaded NEP numbers from the internet on election night, however, before poll results were changed to match the official vote count.


Link To Site: http://www.velvetrevolution.us/electionstrikeforce /
Link To Flyer: http://www.velvetrevolution.us/electionstrikeforce/Prop...

[ellius101]

21. I'm thinking this is so important, started another thread

I wonder if this is all related?

Election Irregularities Surfacing Re: California's Proposition 8

"This discrepancy should be ringing alarm bells. Something doesn't add up".

http://www.velvetrevolution.us/electionstrikeforce /

[ellius101]

22. Cool....I see Mark Crispin Miller has picked up on this

compliments of Kpete in General discussion


WAS PROP 8 ACTUALLY DEFEATED??-by Mark Crispin Miller

by Mark Crispin Miller Page 1 of 1 page(s)

www.opednews.com

Well, well, well. First we find out, happily, that We the People may not be incorrigible racists after all, as Election '08 has debunked the (feeble) theory of "the Bradley effect."

And now it turns out that Americans--at least those in gay-friendly California--may not really be as hostile to gay marriage as the outcome of that state's election has apparently suggested.

As we think about the possibility that Prop 8 was not really passed by California's voters, let's note something that the press, and others, won't discuss: i.e., that the entire apparatus of computerized voting in this country--the e-voting machines and op-scans and central tabulators, etc.--is largely owned by members of the Christianist far right.

Diebold and ES&S were both begun by Bob and Todd Urosevich, two ardent
Oklahoma theocrats, while Triad, which makes the central vote tabulators used in Ohio in 2004, is owned by the Rapp family. SmartTech, the company that helped Bush/Cheney steal that state, is owned by evangelical Jeff Averbeck; and his associate Mike Connell, owner of GovTech Solutions, which also helped to steal Ohio, among other races, was motivated to such work by his desire "to save the babies," according to Stephen Spoonamore

[bluedawg12]

23. Say anything, do anything, lie and cheat because that's what "good values" are?

LMAO! :sarcasm:

Also from that OP Ed:

>>Why are there so many Christianists among the owners of those companies?
Because the rigging of elections is the only way that that fringe movement ever could impose its theocratic program on the rest of us. As Paul Weyrich used to say out loud, the Christianists despise democracy. After all, that system, if allowed to stand, would put the sinful secular majority in charge--and that can't be allowed.<<

Back to my ruling class/elite idea and also their only viable conservapig ideology, in their fevered little brains is: cultural wars. Everything else has been largely either proven wrong, or out right rejected.

Just about the very worst thing the rw can do to freedom is to take away the voice of the people by stealing, rigging, dismissing, gerrymandering the vote.