The accusations of racism have to stop.

[yardwork]

This has gone on long enough. Ever since gay rights were rolled back in four more states on election day, white gays have been subjected to a relentless campaign accusing us of racism.

I'm fed up with it. If you are one of the offenders, don't tell me that you've seen racist posts on DU. That's what the alert button is for. If you see a racist post, alert on it. Stop calling out other DUers and making blanket accusations against an entire group of people. That, too, is against DU rules.

[Warpy]

1. Thank you for this

Color isn't the problem. Even culture isn't the problem.

The problem was a poisonous ad campaign by some churches who should have to face the tax man because of it.

[yardwork]

2. I agree, but the point of my OP is to stop the broad-brush accusations here of racism.

If we see a racist post on DU, we should alert on it and let the mods take care of it.

Instead, a handful of DUers have decided to become vigilantes accusing all white gay people here on DU of racism, and making constant personal attacks against anyone who asks them to stop. That behavior is also against DU rules and we need to start alerting on it and put a stop to it.

[Warpy]

9. You're right

I backed off for the few days after H8 passed because I knew people were hurting and needed to let it all out.

I'll start alerting more on bigotry when I see it. I'm glad to say I've seen a lot less of it over the past week.

[yardwork]

12. It started up again a couple of days ago. I don't know why.

[QC]

31. I know why it started up again, but I better not say it. n/t

[yardwork]

40. PM me. I'd like to know who dragged it back here. It's extremely divisive.

[LostinVA]

42. PM me, please

[T Wolf]

3. And the closed-mindedness of those churchgoers who obeyed their spiritual leaders. nt

[davidinalameda]

25. not in all cases

it's was pure homophobia in some

[GodlessBiker]

4. Can you cut and paste one of these attacks?

[yardwork]

5. No, because it's against DU rules.

[GodlessBiker]

7. Well, that's silly. You can complain about attacks but not show evidence of attacks?

[QC]

8. Yes, it's silly, but them's the rules.

We are not allowed to call bigots bigots if those bigots happen to be members of this board.

[yardwork]

11. We're not allowed to call out individual posters. If this thread isn't about you, it isn't about you

I haven't called you out.

[GodlessBiker]

13. No. I just haven't seen it. (I know, I have to get out more.)

[QC]

6. Are you trying to suggest that not all "gay white folks" think and act alike in all ways?

What a radical idea!

[Lerkfish]

10. while I agree with you, I myself was a bit appalled

when prop 8 happened, and the first target was the african american community, here on DU.

I think that was wrong, too. so maybe the pendulum has swung back and everyone can go on about their business.

[yardwork]

14. Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. You just made a broad-brush accusation.

"The first target was the African American community, here on DU."

If you see a post blaming the African American community, alert on it. But stop making these broad generalizations. The target of Proposition 8 and the other three anti-gay measures passed on election day were GAY PEOPLE OF ALL COLORS.

[Lerkfish]

15. I know what I saw

and I saw a very concerted attack against african americans and blaming them for prop 8.

[yardwork]

16. Wake up tomorrow without a right you had today and see how you react.

As a lesbian, I'm sick and tired of living my life without the same rights as everybody else, and I'm really sick and tired of being told that I'm overreacting to the situation. Now, on top of everything else, I'm told that I unfairly blamed some other group of people and now that I'm being called a racist it has somehow evened everything out, the pendulum has swung back, and everyone can go about their business.

Except that I still have many fewer rights than everyone else except other gay people.

[Lerkfish]

23. I edited my post before I saw this reply, and you have some valid points

my metaphor of a pendulum is probably not the best one, but what I meant was that it appeared to me that blacks were disproportionately targeted by gays after prop 8, and now that has died down somewhat, and according to you, people are pushing back against that overzealously too far in the other direction by accusing gays of being racist.
Both accusations are wrong and over the top, and I meant that like pendulum, it can swing wildly for a while before it finally calms down.

The overreaction I'm referring to is not the abridgement of your rights, which is wrong, and I agree its wrong. The overreaction was to target the AA community out of anger, when they weren't the largest direct cause of prop 8.

I'm afraid you're liable to view anything I post here as incendiary, but that really isn't my intent.
prop 8 is bullshit. Gays should be allowed every right as any other citizen. But I really, really, did see a lot of the GLBT community come out swinging against the AA community, and in my view, it was a mistargeting out of frustration.

I think the frustration is justified, but like many people who are frustrated, they swing at the first available target, even if its not the best target.

Hopefully, now that one the larger and better targets (the Mormon Church) have been identified, maybe the effort will gain more headway to undo prop 8.

I completely support gay rights and always have. But being gay, or black, also means being human, and humans will often swing at the wrong target. That's what I'm trying to say, but apparently not very well.

[yardwork]

34. I did not "come out swinging at the AA community," Yet I am constantly accused of racism.

I'm tired of the baseless accusation.

If you see a racist post, alert on it. I alert on them when I see them. But stop saying that "the gay community" attacked "the African American community." It is simply untrue, and it's very hurtful to those of us who spend a lot of time fighting for human rights for all people.

Personally, I contributed money and effort to getting Obama elected. I smacked down racism everywhere I saw it and heard it, as I have all my life. I persuaded some people to vote for Obama. It's extraordinarily hurtful to be called a racist all over DU, for weeks and weeks. Please stop.

[LostinVA]

45. I kinda got used to it during the Primaries, but it still pisses me off and offends me

It's an easy way to shut down people -- or try to, anyway.

[Lerkfish]

59. point out anywhere where I called you a racist

oh that's right, you can't.

look, you're taking everything I'm saying as a personal attack. Stop it.

try to understand what I'm saying, or don't, whatever.

[yardwork]

66. Stating that "the gay community" conducted a "concerted" attack on black people is calling me racist

I am gay.

[yardwork]

18. You just edited your post and completely changed what you wrote, after I responded.

There was no concerted attack against African Americans - that is not true, and your repeating it here does not make it true.

[Lerkfish]

20. I didn't edit it to trick you or anything, just

rethought what I wanted to say.

but what I said was true, in my estimation, of what I saw here at DU immediately after Prop 8.

certianly not everyone was involved, but there were people involved, and I witnessed it. Should I lie about what I witnessed to keep from being called a liar? I dont' think so.

[LostinVA]

28. Saty it a million times, but it's still not true: there wasNO concerted attacks against AAs

[QC]

30. That has reached urban legend status at DU now, like the story

about the guy who meets up with a beautiful girl and awakens the next morning with a kidney missing.

Everyone knows someone who knows someone that happened to, but nobody has any direct proof.

[LostinVA]

32. ONE THREAD -- and it was rightly quickly locked

[Lerkfish]

62. um actually, this is the first time I've spoken about it, that I know of

right here in this thread.

look, some people really want to have an argument.

I am just stating my opinion and my observations.

I see no reason to say anymore.

[kwassa]

88. It depends on you point of view.

[yardwork]

35. Just alert on the individual posts and stop making broad-brush statements about "the gay community."

There is no single "gay community." There was certainly no "concerted" effort to blame African Americans.

[amdezurik]

19. completely untrue

if you "saw" that it was because you wanted to see that so you could attack people and claim you were "attacked" first by the poll numbers that were released.

[Lerkfish]

21. I don't have a dog in this fight, actually

I'm neither gay nor black. So I saw it happening from the sidelines, as it were.
In my mind that makes me somewhat more impartial without having excess baggage for either side.

what it appeared to me was that there was justified anger about prop 8, and the poll provided an immediate target for that anger. Now that anger is probably(?) more accurately targeted at the Mormon church.

[LostinVA]

27. There was ONE thread attacking /"attacking" the AA community,and it was locked very quickly

I alerted on it myself.

You did NOT see a "concerted attack agianst African Americans."

[GodlessBiker]

17. You don't see your original post here as doing exactly what you complain Lerkfish of?

"Ever since gay rights were rolled back in four more states on election day, white gays have been subjected to a relentless campaign accusing us of racism."

That's not a "blanket accusation"?

Doesn't your original post "call out other DUers and make blanket accusations against an entire group of people"?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

29. "homohating posts" -- WTF is wrong with you???

[noiretextatique]

33. i call it homohatred

i don't like the term homophobia. i think it's hatred, not fear. :wtf: is your problem? do you ever post anything other than titles? it might help to explain :wtf: you mean.

[LostinVA]

36. "Homo" is a slur,as you well know, and you apparently have a huge reading comprehension problem

It's apparent that:

1. You DON'T read my posts, but just want to personally attack me by making things up, and

2. Are in here to cause trouble.

[noiretextatique]

38. are you insane?

is homophobia a slur?
1) i didn't read your post because you only posted a title.
2) i am here because i am a lesbian

[yardwork]

37. I find the term "homohating" to be deeply offensive. Please don't use it.

The term "homo" has always been used in a derogatory way. Even the term "homosexual" is offensive to many gay people.

The term "homohating" makes me feel like I've been slapped in the face. Unless that is your intention, please don't use it.

[LostinVA]

39. Oh, I'm betting that was their intention -- check their posting history

[noiretextatique]

43. what history? i disagreed with you and others

about why prop 8 passed, while some here feasted on an orgy of blaming black people that's the extent of my "posting history."

[yardwork]

48. Please provide proof for your accusation that DUers "feasted on an orgy of blaming black people."

Put up or shut up.

[LostinVA]

55. As I said, check their posting history

They were one of the worst in the "white gays are racist" threads.

[noiretextatique]

58. some white gay people are racists

just as some black people are bigots. if you find anything in my posting history that claims all white gay people are racist, please put up or shut up.

[dsc]

51. I have had my problems with her but homohatred and homophobia

are pretty much the same thing. I think you are reading into this posts legitimate problems with past ones.

[yardwork]

53. How do you feel about "feasted on an orgy of blaming blacks?"

Am I overreacting to that one?

[noiretextatique]

61. yes...there was thread after thread

doing that very thing. i don't know that any of them were started by gay people, and i suspect a good number of them were started by trolls. how is that so hard to believe when this thread is essentially about the same thing? why are YOU taking this personally?

[yardwork]

65. Show me one that wasn't locked.

Why am I taking this personally? Because I got called a racist again today and I'm sick of it.

[noiretextatique]

68. i am sorry that happened

and i don't believe you are a racist. of course they got locked. i haven't seen all the action here, but my friends here alerted me to some of the worst threads. if i see someone unfairly accused of racism, i certainly would not support that. i've seen some of the posts in the glbt best of du, and they were horrible and offensive...especially the one about not burdening obama.
and i have seen some racist posts at DU over the 8 years i've been here...stuff that free republic would probably delete...that never got locked or deleted.

[yardwork]

71. I just read this in the thread you sent me to. How do you think I feel?

Most of DU's white GLBT people have "outed" themselves as stone cold, dead eyed racists.

Nobody disagreed with it. Nobody deleted it. It was posted on November 8. It's still there, in the thread you just send me to read.

[noiretextatique]

74. i think it must hurt your feelings

there have been a lot of accusations back and forth and it is time for it to end. i am willing to make an effort by addressing the comment in that thread.

[yardwork]

76. Why didn't you address it when it was posted on November 8? You've posted in that thread since then

There was a similar comment - very similar, I think it was something like "White LGBTers will always blame black people..." - in a thread in which you actively posted, dozens of posts, but you didn't say a word about that.

That comment was finally deleted today after numerous alerts.

[noiretextatique]

80. yardwork, i am sorry

i didn't respond to that sooner. but i can admit when i am wrong, and i was wrong about that. i should have responded sooner.

[yardwork]

82. Thank you. That's why I started this thread - because this all has to stop.

[noiretextatique]

83. agreed

it has to stop.

[yardwork]

86. The post is still there. It was alerted on six hours ago, but it's still there.

It was posted on November 8 and it is still there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=258&topic_id=4822&mesg_id=4849

[QC]

89. It's a nasty post, but typical of that poster.

I don't expect it to go anywhere.

[yardwork]

94. It has been deleted, and all references to it deleted on this thread.

I appreciate that the mods did that, but on the other hand, there's at least one other poster agreeing with it here.

[QC]

95. Yes, but consider who that poster is and look at his other posts here

and all will be made clear.

And good work to the mods!

[noiretextatique]

60. thanks, dsc

i apologized to you in the other thread...sorry about that. i let my anger get the better of me.

[dsc]

69. no problem it is easy for anger to overtake us now days

it happens to us all. I have gone overboard too lately and am sorry.

[noiretextatique]

72. cool...

i've always appreciated your analytical nature. thanks for backing me up.

[jonnyblitz]

63. I don't find homohatred to be offensive at all ESPECIALLY when

coming from a fellow gay or lesbian. I was rather stunned to see people freaking out over that word. I use the word "queer" to describe myself and the gay community and that offends some. I mean,hell, the name of a tv show is "Queer as Folk". just my opinion.

[mitchtv]

87. doesn't bother me none

homophobis is an ungainly word

[QC]

84. Yes, noiretblu is good folks. One of my favorite old time DUers

and definitely no hater.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

46. You are clearly here just to cause trouble.

[LostinVA]

47. Quit posting only titles

:eyes:

[yardwork]

52. I must have missed that new DU rule - "No posting of only titles or you will be cursed at."

[LostinVA]

56. YOU DID IT AGAIN

hehehehehhe

[noiretextatique]

57. first of all, that poster cursed at me first

second, i had no idea what s/he meant by the title, hence my suggestion that s/he say what s/he meant.

[noiretextatique]

49. and you are clearly angry about other threads eom

[yardwork]

50. That is the topic of my OP.

[noiretextatique]

54. please post them here

wait...that's against the rules, isn't it? you can find some of the racist threads in the afam group best of du thread.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

75. enough...i will address that comment now

my effort to end all of this.

[yardwork]

77. That is just one example. The entire thread is filled with similar posts.

You and many other DUers were agreeing with them.

[noiretextatique]

79. not about you

and i'm sorry i didn't make that clear. there are a group of DUers some were talking about.

anyway...here's my post.

it's wrong to call all white GLBT DUers racists

and it's offensive and hurtful to our GLBT friends and allies. i have no problem with calling out individuals, but it's INSANE to cast all white GLBT Duers as racists.

i've had the feeling i'm a character in "to sleep with anger" since the election. danny glover's character created misery and destruction in the lives of every person he touched.

i have let my anger get the better of me a few times since the election and the awful results from california, florida, and arizona. i think a lot of us have. it's time to stop these kind of indictments of entire communities NOW. this is exactly the type of scapegoating that we've been complaining about.

it's time we stop allowing ourselves to be played by those who want to divide us.

i sincerely apologize to all my white GLBT brothers and sisters who were righteously offended by this thread. i might add: i am embarrassed that it took me so long to recognize and respond.

[yardwork]

81. I appreciate that. Thank you. I have been called a racist by some other DUers.

Ironically, they are both straight and white (if we believe what they say about themselves).

[noiretextatique]

85. those are the threads i missed

but i know the types. anyway...sorry it took me so long to understand what you were talking about.
have a great holiday!

[Name removed]

78. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

44. Alert on my thread if you think it violates a rule.

I'm not calling out "all straight DUers" or "all black DUers" or any other specific individual or group. This thread is about relentless posting - some of it right here in this thread - accusing "gay DUers" of being racist.

There are numerous posts up on DU right now stating matter-of-factly that white gay people are racist. I've been accused personally of being racist more times than I can count. When these posters are asked to document their accusation with some kind of proof, they scamper away and start up the same accusations in another thread.

It's gone on for weeks. It's bad enough that anti-gay bigotry is now codified all over the country through constitutional amendments and federal acts. Now I'm accused of racism too!

Shit.

[mitchtv]

24. there go those damned victims again

It's their fault H8 won. not enough outreach,communication,etc,etc. How dare they blame anyone else.I am sympathetic , but "their " behavior is losing me.

[LostinVA]

26. Kick --= I'm sick of it, too, and it does NOTHING but stop a very important dialog on this subject

[Lerkfish]

64. hey, guess what? I've learned my lesson.

I"m hiding this thread.

too much venom for me.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lightningandsnow]

90. Yardwork, I like your posts and agree with you most of the time,

and I agree that the vast majority of white GLBTQQ people have been respectful and not racist, you cannot deny that there were incidences of racism in connection with Prop 8.

Unless this was a false report, I don't think you can say that there's no racism here:

"Three older men accosted my friend and shouted, "Black people did this, I hope you people are happy!" A young lesbian couple with mohawks and Obama buttons joined the shouting and said there were "very disappointed with black people" and "how could we" after the Obama victory. This was stupid for them to single us out because we were carrying those blue NO ON PROP 8 signs! I pointed that out and the one of the older men said it didn't matter because "most black people hated gays" and he was "wrong" to think we had compassion. That was the most insulting thing I had ever heard. I guess he never thought we were gay."

And really, you don't think the "Black people stole our rights" meme is just a little racist? I haven't seen much of it on here, but have you looked around the blogosphere lately? Racial scapegoating is racism, I'm sorry. There's a world of difference between saying that homophobia is a problem in the black community, and blaming black people for passing Proposition 8. (You haven't been doing the latter, but I've seen it elsewhere.)

Furthermore, being a member of one opressed group does not exclude one from having other kinds of privilege. White GLBTQQ people have white privilege, straight Black people have straight privilege, able-bodied people in any group have able-bodied privilege, and so forth. This doesn't mean a group doesn't experience oppression, however, it means many people have other privileges they really should acknowledge. This also extends to the fact that being a member of one oppressed group certainly does not mean one does not posess other prejudices (and, yes, this applies for both straight black people with homophobic prejudices and GLBTQQ white people with racist prejudices.)

By the way, I'm not saying you're racist, not at all - in fact, you've been one of the most consistently anti-racist folks on here. :hi:

[yardwork]

91. AspieGirl, I like your posts too. I don't think you've seen the posts that have upset me.

There were a couple of personal accusations of racism against me again yesterday. There were several broadbrush attacks against "gay white people." I started this thread to bring attention to the ongoing problem here on DU and ask people to stop with the broadbrush attacks on gay whites.

Then, in the body of this thread, I was asked to go to the African American issues forum and read the racist comments. In the first thread I read there I saw a horrific post that had been made on November 8. It's been deleted now and all references to it have been deleted from this thread, but at least one poster is here defending it. Another poster has stood up against it, which I really appreciate.

I want the broadbrush accusations to stop. I alert on racist posts all the time. I'm asking folks to alert on homophobic posts instead of agreeing with them and going along with a very hurtful lie which is now accepted as truth here on DU.

[lightningandsnow]

92. Yeah, you're right.

I did kinda skip over some of the trainwreck-esque looking posts out of wanting to preserve my sanity. :-)

I think you've got it right. Broad-brush accusations get us nowhere.

[yardwork]

93. That's my only point.