I asked my doctor if Zetia is right for me........

[HysteryDiagnosis]

then I read this....

1: Endocr J. 2006 Aug 11; Click here to read Links
Association between Serum Ferritin and Circulating Oxidized Low-density Lipoprotein Levels in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes.

* Ikeda Y,
* Suehiro T,
* Yamanaka S,
* Kumon Y,
* Takata H,
* Inada S,
* Ogami N,
* Osaki F,
* Inoue M,
* Arii K,
* Hashimoto K.

Department of Endocrinology, Metabolism and Nephrology, Kochi Medical School, Kochi University.

The oxidative modification of low-density lipoproteins (LDL) plays a central role in the initiation and acceleration of atherosclerosis. Iron plays a part in the formation of highly toxic free radicals such as hydroxide and superoxide anions, which can induce lipid peroxidation. We investigated whether serum iron status was associated with circulating oxidized LDL (oxLDL) levels in type 2 diabetic patients, in whom oxidative stress and susceptibility to lipid oxidation were supposedly increased. Serum ferritin levels were significantly correlated with plasma oxLDL concentrations in both male and female patients (p<0.02 and p<0.05, respectively). No correlation was detected between ferritin and LDL-cholesterol (LDL-C) concentrations despite the close correlation between LDL-C and oxLDL concentrations (p<0.0001). Stepwise regression analysis showed that ferritin concentration was an independent positive determinant of oxLDL level, in addition to triglyceride concentration, body mass index and sex. This is the first report to show that serum ferritin is associated with circulating oxLDL levels in patients with type 2 diabetes. Further work is required to establish a causative link between iron excess and the development of diabetic vascular complications.

PMID: 16902260

and this:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/sat-fat_and_women.html
Conclusions: In postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat intake, a greater saturated fat intake is associated with less progression of coronary atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake is associated with a greater progression.

Am J Clin Nutr 2004;80: 1175–84.


and this:
http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm
Here are the facts! Click on the blue arrows if you want the scientific evidence!

1 Cholesterol is not a deadly poison, but a substance vital to the cells of all mammals. There are no such things as good or bad cholesterol, but mental stress, physical activity and change of body weight may influence the level of blood cholesterol. A high cholesterol is not dangerous by itself, but may reflect an unhealthy condition, or it may be totally innocent.

2 A high blood cholesterol is said to promote atherosclerosis and thus also coronary heart disease. But many studies have shown that people whose blood cholesterol is low become just as atherosclerotic as people whose cholesterol is high.

3 Your body produces three to four times more cholesterol than you eat. The production of cholesterol increases when you eat little cholesterol and decreases when you eat much. This explains why the ”prudent” diet cannot lower cholesterol more than on average a few per cent.

4 There is no evidence that too much animal fat and cholesterol in the diet promotes atherosclerosis or heart attacks. For instance, more than twenty studies have shown that people who have had a heart attack haven't eaten more fat of any kind than other people, and degree of atherosclerosis at autopsy is unrelated with the diet.

And decided that it wasn't for me no matter what he might say. I'll stick to my antioxidants, stanols, sterols and other things that are proven to maintain and protect the human frame.

[Buck Laser]

1. Statin drugs can be nasty stuff.

With a history of heart trouble in my family (father died of a heart attack at 63), and my own heart surgeries (angioplasty and quad bypass), doctors are constantly trying to put me on this or that statin drug, and I have tried at least four, all with such unpleasant side effects that I have not continued any. My cholesterol over the past 25 years or so has been low to borderline high. Last year, during the course of diagnosing leukemia, my cardiologist came to the conclusion that I am severely allergic to statin drugs in general. All statins give the liver and kidneys a beating, and the chemotherapy for leukemia also beats on those organs. I have been in complete remission from leukemia for nearly 18 months now, and hope to continue dealing with high cholesterol by other means than statin drugs.
By the way, the discernible side effects of the anti-cholesterol drugs included extreme fatigue, muscular pain, weakness and general distress. Nasty stuff.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Most People Are Helped By STatins, Without Nasty Side Effects

Studies show that people who take statins, particularly Lipitor, reduce their risk of dying by roughly 30% per year. Interestingly, people with low cholesterol see the same benefit as people with high cholesterol - so something interesting (but good) is going on beyond simply the drop in blood cholesterol. Evidence also seems to indicate that people who take statins have a lower incidence of Alzheimer's disease.

Side effects are unusual, although they definitely can happen - but are always or almost always reversed by stopping the drug. All in all, I think that statins are worth trying.

Note that fish oil is actually even better at dropping the death rate, even though it does not lower cholesterol very much - probably because if cuts the incidence of sudden cardiac arrest, the largest cause of death in the US.

[Radio_Lady]

7. Appreciate this discussion. I did go to the THINCS web site, and

there appears to be a fair amount of disagreement regarding cholesterol therapy and the effect of the statins. I have regularly emailed my doctor but he and others in traditional medicine are not on the cutting edge of research and, of course, you have to consider the monetary impact of several million people getting off a drug because of "bad publicity." That could certainly hurt the pharmaceutical companies balance sheet, right? :sarcasm:

[Ice4Clark]

2. Pantethine has been shown to reduce cholesterol

I put my husband on this. We'll have his blood checked in a couple months and see what results he has. Here is the link to the product he is using. I chose it because it is what was used in the University of MN's clinical trial. It's pharmaceutical grade. No known side effects.

Endurance Products


Here are some snips of articles I had bookmarked about Pantethine:


Pantethine

Pantethine is a form of pantothenic acid (vitamin B5) that has been shown to lower cholesterol. Specifically, it reduces levels of LDL and total cholesterol, raises HDL, and is the most effective supplement for lowering triglyceride levels. Pantethine works by improving fat metabolism and by slowing down production of cholesterol in the liver.

Pantethine is often recommended for diabetics.

************************************

Pantethine and pantothenic acid, 400 to 900 mg each per day. The use of pantethine to reduce total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglyceride level, while raising the good HDL cholesterol at the same time, is well documented. Bertolini et al treated a series of 65 adults suffering from hypercholesterolemia alone or associated with hypertriglyceridemia (types IIa and IIb of Fredrickson's classification). Pantethine 1200 mg daily for adults was used for 3 years. In adult population with type IIa hyperlipoproteinemia, the study showed a 25% decrease in total cholesterol, a 39% decrease in LDL-cholesterol, a 34% decrease in Apo-B, and a modest increase in HDL-cholesterol were observed. In adult patients with type IIb hyperlipoproteinemia, total cholesterol was reduced by 19.8%, LDL-cholesterol by 37%, triglycerides by 31%, and Apo-B by 6%. In this subgroup, a 23% increase of HDL-cholesterol and a 15% increase in apolipoprotein A-I were also observed. In another double-blind placebo-controlled study, 29 people with high cholesterol and triglycerides were followed for 8 weeks. The dosage used was 300 mg 3 times daily, for a total daily dose of 900 mg. In this study, subjects taking pantethine experienced a 30% reduction in blood triglycerides, a 13.5% reduction in LDL ("bad") cholesterol, and a 10% rise in HDL ("good") cholesterol. Typically, a daily dose of 900 mg pantethine has been shown to reduce triglyceride by 20-30%, total cholesterol by 10-20%, LDL cholesterol by 10-20%, and a rise in HDL cholesterol by 10-20% in many studies.

********************************************

Pantothenic acid supplementation has been proven effective in addressing hyperlipidemia, as its derivatives— including pantethine—lowered total cholesterol and triglycerides in obese mice, 141 and 600 mg/d of pantethine severely reduced fatty liver in 16 hypertriglyceridemic patients.142 A University of Minnesota trial further showed 600 mg/d to 900 mg/d of pantethine (as Pantesin®, from Daiichi Pharmaceutical) improved levels of LDL, VLDL and triglycerides and increased HDL.143

[Radio_Lady]

4. Statins are doing their job, but at what a physical price?

I just went to the website www.askapatient.com which
allows users to rate their drugs. I typed in Lipitor and
got hundreds of responses from "excellent and useful
drug" to "I wouldn't take that stuff in a million
years," as well as everything in between.

I was diagnosed with high cholesterol in my 50s. Zocor
was the drug of choice originally in the 1990s, but I
had to stop that due to odd liver levels and unexplained
muscle pain. (I am overweight and perpetually trying to
lose stubborn pounds -- and also have a hypothyroid
situation. Add to that the antidepressant drug Pamelor,
as I was diagnosed with clinical depression in my late
teens. Oh, I also seem to have high blood pressure just
occasionally thrown in for good measure.)

After Zocor, my doctor suggested Baycol, but of course,
it got recalled. The threat of sudden death will make
you sit up and take notice, so I stopped everything and
started on RED YEAST RICE. That lasted for a couple of
months, and the blood work numbers were NOT GOOD.
Mevacor was the next suggested stop on this daisy-chain
of drugs. However, I was told I had to take MORE of it
because it is weaker -- approximately 80 mg. a day of
Mevacor (lovastatin) to do the job of 20 mg. a day of
Lipitor (atorvastatin).

So, I went with the "designer" statin at a higher price
because it is still under its patent, by the way. The
drug lowered my total cholesterol levels from the 300s
(high risk of heart attack) to the low 200s (low risk)
and I think I reached the magic number of 198 once upon
a time. However, every muscle and joint in my body hurt
and I hated it. The drug also didn't improve my LDL
levels to any extent and those stubborn triglycerides
remain high.

I stopped the Lipitor for six weeks this summer to see
if walking, swimming, eating as healthy as I could and
stress free on vacation in England and Scotland, but
regrettably, encountered a back injury in August and
have not been able to evaluate it as I have been
prescribed muscle relaxants and Percocet for back pain.

Predictably, my levels went way up when I got the
results of my latest blood work, and I started back with
the Lipotor 20 mg. a day again. I am supposed to see my
doctor this week and have no idea how to proceed.

I am so confused and conflicted by this drug category.
Obviously, the more I read on the Internet, the more I
wish there was some clearer remedy. By the way,
somewhere along the line, I did try policosanol, which
didn't do a thing. Now my best friend from high school
is trying to get me to use something called
Kal's "Beyond Red Yeast Rice" (isn't that a swell name?)
and Co-Q10, because she swears by it. But, of course,
her husband has advanced Alzheimer's Disease which he
has had for more than seven years, and he's only in his
late 60s. What's more he's getting worse every time I
see him! I haven't a clue whether this stuff will work
for me, and I feel I'm walking on eggshells as my doctor
checks off the boxes on my report indicating HIGH RISK
of heart disease.

Clearly, like any other drug, the statins are a poison
for some and a life-saver for others -- but what group
do I fit in? What a f***ing mess!

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[sandnsea]

5. I just went on synthroid

I went in 6 weeks ago because of a cuticle infection of all things. The doctor highly recommended a thyroid test, totally out of the blue; and we threw in cholesterol and blood sugar for good measure. (Haven't been to a doctor in ten years) Well bless her heart she knew what she was doing, my tsh was 92! I can now see that I was swollen up like a blimp, tired easily, etc. I had thought much of what I was going through was menopause, but I think most of it was my thyroid. My check last week has me at 20, so I've still got a ways to go. Anyway, I'm curious. What are you on and do they do the T3 and T4 tests for you? I've read that the T3 replacement does more for mental fog and depression, and that's what I need most. (Besides not being sick that is)

But she also put me on 10 mg of Lipitor. My cholesterol is 210 and I just think that's not high enough to put that crap in my body. I've told the doctor I want to wait my thyroid completely balanced first because if I have Lipitor side affects I won't know whether it's the Lipitor or the Synthroid or some other change going on. That is part of it, but I just mostly think I should try to reduce my cholesterol naturally first.

So anyway, I know sort of what you mean. It's all very confusing.

[Radio_Lady]

6. Hi Sandnsea, I take 100 mcg. of Levothyroid (generic) from Forest.

A few years ago, my HMO doctor's assistant made an error in my thyroid replacement dosage. She wrote down 175 mcg. instead of 75 mcg, which basically more than doubled my dosing. All my tests went haywire and test after test came back as HYPERTHYROID. The doctor was non-plussed and put me on smaller strengths -- I have whole bottles of 150, 135, and 125 mcg, which I hardly used.

That error was not discovered ALMOST A WHOLE YEAR after switching to that coverage. Finally, I demanded that I be examined by the Chief of Endocrinology, who caught the error. The doctor and his assistant apologized, but the person who actually wrote down the numbers "just didn't remember the whole thing after a year."

Subsequently, I made a financial settlement with that HMO, because I could have been in grave danger if I had had, for example, a heart condition. The background was that I had been taking 75 mcg. when I went this senior plan, which changed my coverage completely, added a new doctor, and used different manufacturers of the medicine. At the same time, companies manufacturing the drug were ordered by the FDA to reformulate, so when the new pills came from the new mail order pharmacy, there were notices that a **NEW** formula might make the product look different. I didn't notice the added "1" and trusted my doctor completely. Later, records at the Walgreen Drug Store confirmed that I had indeed been prescribed 75 mcg.

Basically, this HMO does the TSH test, and the rest of it is decided on an "as needed" basis -- read hardly ever or never. Obviously, the "as needed" did not include other tests when the numbers went "kerflooy" -- just the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH).

I just got a recent TSH test and the number is 4.55, not too bad -- certainly nothing like you had at 92!!! Good luck with your numbers!

I've read the books by Mary Shomon "Living with Hypothyroid Disease" and "The Thyroid Diet." She is one of the leading experts on thyroid problems, and I interviewed her on my radio show. She says that TSH should be between 1 and 2 -- and the new range should be (not sure I am typing this right) more narrow than .05 to 5.00.

Thanks for your comments.

In peace,

Radio_Lady