Suicides "Linked to Phone Masts"

[Celebration]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/49330/Suicides-linked-to-phone-masts-

THE spate of deaths among young people in Britain’s suicide capital could be linked to radio waves from dozens of mobile phone transmitter masts near the victims’ homes.

Dr Roger Coghill, who sits on a Government advisory committee on mobile radiation, has discovered that all 22 youngsters who have killed themselves in Bridgend, South Wales, over the past 18 months lived far closer than average to a mast.

He has examined worldwide studies linking proximity of masts to depression. Dr Coghill’s work is likely to trigger alarm and lead to closer scrutiny of the safety of masts, which are frequently sited on public buildings such as schools and hospitals.

Dr Coghill said: “There is a body of research that has over the years pointed to the fact that exposure to mobile radiation can lead to depression. There is evidence of higher suicide rates where people live near any electrical equipment that gives off radio or electrical waves.”

..................................


The national average for proximity to a mobile phone transmitter varies depending on the type of mast. The latest masts are far more powerful so they can transmit more sophisticated data, such as photos and videos for people to download on internet phones.

[trotsky]

1. Of course there is a simpler, more logical explanation...

Those transmitters are generally placed in poorer areas, so the rich and well-to-do don't have to look at them. Go figure that there would be higher rates of suicide in economically difficult neighborhoods.

But that's boring, so let's pound that drum of fear! Cell phones = EVUL!

[Celebration]

9. what makes you think they are in poorer areas?

I live in a rather upscale area, and there is one disguised (haha) as a pine tree, and another in a church tower, all in walking distance.

Cell phone towers are put everywhere, and topography such as it being a hill is more likely to determine the location of cell phone towers than income levels.

Certainly correlation is not the same as causation, but if there is a correlation between cell phone tower radiation and depression, I would not automatically blame it on low incomes without futher evidence. And it certainly should be investigated.

[trotsky]

10. ...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405E1D71531F936A3575AC0A9629C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Deep pockets may be why some of the neighboring towns have avoided towers.

''I think influential resistance has thwarted the cell tower incursion,'' Mr. Coston said.

Mike Kulak, a contractor engineer who asked that the wireless companies he works for not be named because he wants to continue getting jobs from them, cited economics as the main reason cellphone reception may be weak in certain areas. ''It's simple: the richer your neighborhood, the poorer your reception is going to be,'' he said. ''The poorer your neighborhood -- look at Queens. Great reception. The politics of cell towers has nothing to do with technology or the laws of physics.''

[Celebration]

13. huh, not true here for sure

We get great reception. Maybe it is hard to disguise cell phone towers in NYC.

[trotsky]

16. Well then, got a cluster of suicides in your neighborhood?

Seems that you're in a perfect position to help confirm or disprove the theory, hmm?

[Celebration]

18. no, not that either

But then they aren't around the corner--maybe a half mile away is the closest. Another one that I know of is close to a mile away.

I might need to ask those within a couple of hundred yards.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

22. I'm being stalked by a cell tower, Mmmmm cell tower,

and if that tower chases me, I'll run for cover near a tree, and if that tower catches me, Mmmmm Mmmmm I won't have to call no more.... heh.

To the tune of Moonshadow by that ME looking dude.

[jbonkowski]

2. Correlation does not equal causation

I'm always surprised at how few people understand this concept, especially medical doctors. Engineers and scientists seem to have less trouble getting it.

What this guy is saying is no different than saying "Water must be labeled a toxic substance because so many people drown each year."

jim

[SlicerDicer-]

38. Tell that to Al Gore please.

[TheWraith]

3. This is just so stupid it sickens me.

Do people think that cell phone towers are powered by magic? They're radio transmissions like anything else. They just pump out a few hundred watts, rather than the thousands or tens of thousands of watts of a radio station, or the hundreds of thousands of watts of a TV channel. All this paranoia is really scientifically unjustifiable.

[salvorhardin]

6. Let's not forget the largest producer of electromagnetic waves...

The sun. From the sun alone the earth catches an estimated 175 quadrillion (175 followed by 15 zeroes) watts every single moment of every day. Of course, that works out to only about 1400 watts per square meter. Still, cell phone towers and every other human source of electromagnetic radiation added together are nothing but a tiny fraction of the radiation we get from the sun all the time.
Obligatory wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_radiation

[anarch]

41. my god, you're right...and 100% of suicides are exposed to sunlight!

I blame the sun.

[Truth4Justice]

43. Yes but you cant sue the Sun.

[Blaze Diem]

4. Live within a block of one of those. Thoughts of suicide have not entered my

mind in the four years I have lived here.
Only time I was EVER haunted by the desire to end my life was during a yearlong span of Zoloft Therapy for depression. That was 8 years ago and lived 1200 miles from where I am now. Didn't own a cell phone then and not a mast in sight.
hmmmm...

[cosmik debris]

5. I forget what that fallacy is called.

But the example is shooting 10 shots at the side of the barn and then drawing the target around the tightest cluster.

It is always a lot of fun, and some people fall for it.

[salvorhardin]

7. Texas sharp-shooter fallacy or clustering illusion

The Texas-sharpshooter fallacy is the name epidemiologists give to the clustering illusion. Politicians, lawyers and some scientists tend to isolate clusters of diseases from their context, thereby giving the illusion of a causal connection between some environmental factor and the disease. What appears to be statistically significant (i.e., not due to chance) is actually expected by the laws of chance.

Of the thousands of studies of cancer-clusters investigated by scientists in the United States, "not one has convincingly identified an underlying environmental cause" (Gawande).

The term refers to the story of the Texas sharpshooter who shoots holes in the side of a barn and then draws a bull's-eye around the bullet holes. Individual cases of disease are noted and then the boundaries are drawn (Gawande).
http://skepdic.com/texas.html

[cosmik debris]

8. Thanks n/t

[dropkickpa]

11. suicide cluster and contagion

happen in the affected age group, yet the article makes no mention of it at all. Google "suicide Plano", you'll pull up ALL kinds of stuff on suicide clusters, and they don't just happen in poor areas.

[varkam]

12. After I applied Occam's Razor to the situation, here's what I came up with:

I think the cell phone towers are a red herring. Going on the assumption that all of these individuals lived in the same area, a "suicide epidemic" is a simpler explanation, and one that has been seen many times before. Basically, when one person in a community kills themselves, the probability that you're going to get several suicides following that increases exponentially. In a sense, it "legitimizes" suicide for people who have already been thinking about it, it makes suicide a viable option. The same is also seen after any widely publicized suicide.

[Celebration]

14. maybe they are texting their intentions to the neighborhood

Seriously I doubt that some epidemic of suicides in neighborhoods in Britain has much to do with cell phone towers. However, more is coming out about the various biological effects (long term) of cell phone usage. I think we need to know more. There are a lot of smart scientists worried about the long term effects............of both cell phone usage and cell phone towers.

[varkam]

15. If you ask me...

this is the latest in a long line of luddite-esque, fear-mongering, made-for-media science. I doubt that cell phones, given their rather limited output and the fact that we encounter such radiation on a daily basis and in much larger doses from other sources (i.e. that thing that burns in the sky), pose much of a significant health risk. I could be mistaken, but I don't think that there is evidence out there to prove me wrong. That might change, but until it does, I'm not buying.

[Liberal Veteran]

19. Ack! There's a giant suicide machine burning in the sky! Run away!

:rofl:

[salvorhardin]

20. It's a fact

100% of people who have committed suicide have been exposed to the far ultraviolet rays. Coincindence? I don't think so.

[Orrex]

17. Maybe they were all so depressed about how cellphones killed all the honeybees?

That's the buzz I'm hearing, anyhow...

:tinfoilhat:

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. Heh - "Bad Science" in today's Guardian is required reading on this

I contacted Dr Coghill, since his work is now a matter of great public concern, and it is vital his evidence can be properly assessed. He was unable to give me the data. No paper has been published. He himself would not describe the work as a “study”. There are no statistics presented on it, and I cannot see the raw figures. In fact Dr Coghill tells me he has lost the figures. Despite its potentially massive public health importance, Dr Coghill is sadly unable to make his material assessable.
...
Who is Dr Coghill? He says he doesn’t have a doctorate and that the Express made a mistake. Does he “sit on a government advisory committee on mobile radiation”? Sort of. Mr Coghill participates in something called Sage, a “stakeholder” group which discusses power cables (not mobile phones) and is run at the request of the Department of Health by RK Partnerships Ltd, who specialise in mediation, facilitation, and conflict resolution. People who campaign on stuff are rightly invited on to consultation panels run by the government, so that their concerns can be heard. Sadly, such participants seem to be misrepresented as government advisers with remarkable frequency.

As an example of the kind of discussion you might find at SAGE, here is Mr Coghill’s contribution to their last document , in the section where people who disagree with the group can state their own views. “Whilst this first interim assessment is a welcome step, it contains three important omissions… the powerfully electro-protective effect of exogenous melatonin supplementation, particularly among the UK’s 20 million elderly population, and the adverse effects of EMFs on melatonin synthesis within the body have not been addressed.” Mr Coghill recently received £125,000 of angel investment for his business selling Asphalia melatonin pills.

Readers worried by the front page story on Mr Coghill’s inaccessible research may have visited his website for more information. There they could buy his electromagnetic field protection equipment at competitive prices, and a £149 device called the Acousticom for “finding out if your home is being exposed to microwaves from e.g. cellphone masts”, as well as several other interesting products, including a magnet that makes wine taste nicer, and the “Mood Maker” treatment for impotence at just £22.32 including VAT (”the small unit discreetly attaches to your underwear… the Mood Maker will gently and gradually increase circulation in the pelvic area”). You might also enjoy his books, including Electrohealing, “using electric and magnetic fields for alleviative and curative ends”, and of course Atlantis: “a new look at the Plato legend with a grim conclusion re global warming and ozone depletion”.

http://www.badscience.net/2008/06/roger-coghill-fails-the-aids-test/

There's a lesson here: never, ever trust the Express.

[cosmik debris]

23. That's funny! The dog ate his homework!

His web site is a hoot too.

Here is another example of his bad science.

Given the choice your pet will always choose to drink magnetic water, they can tell the difference. Magnetic water is more natural. Using a pet coaster ensures that your pet receives maximum benefit from their drinking water. They will love the taste.
Helps with- Painful and stiff joints, muscular complaints, skin problems etc.

http://www.galonja.co.uk/galonja_shop/product.asp?g_s_n=crlshop&g_u_no=0&g_u_nam=&g_tim=&pid=92&v_det=1&full=1&c_id=0

[varkam]

25. Ohhh...magnetic water?

That's woo. Magnetic water that helps with health problems? That's super-woo.

:thumbsdown:

[WildClarySage]

29. Given the choice, *my* dog chooses to drink from the toliet.

No way I'm encouraging that, or gonna try it myself. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[varkam]

24. So, in other words, he's a lunatic.

Aids is caused by EMF radiation? Good grief.

Thanks muriel for tracking that down :hi:

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. More importantly, a lunatic trying to sell things

as 'cures' for (or charms against) EMF radiation. And the Express invented 'Dr.' to make him sound more credible.

[varkam]

27. Why would they do that? Aren't there journalistic laws against making shit up in the UK? eom

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Difficult to think of a law they could be convicted under

It's not libellous; there is an industry-run Press Complaints Commission, which has a 'Code of Practice' saying they mustn't publish inaccurate information, and should correct it if they are told it was inaccurate; if they delt like it, they might publish a correction on an obscure inside page, but more likely they'd laugh in your face if you complained to them. To be honest, they publish 10 lies worse than this each day, I'd expect - ones more likely to damage an individual in some way (though misleading people about a possible cause of suicide might be damaging to someone in the long run). The ethics of the Express can be summed up as 'hypocrisy' - they'll pretend they're moral, and ignore the fact that their publisher Richard Desmond makes most of his money from pornography. He actually makes Rupert Murdoch look principled.

Think of the Express as a cross between Fox News and Weekly World News published by Larry Flint, and you won't go far wrong. Only as the last possible resort should they be used as a 'source' on DU.

Bonus video: the BBC asks Tony Blair if he's proud the Labour Party accepted donations from the publisher of "Horny Housewives" and "Skinny and Wriggly" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5L4JaRIVUU (that clip starts at 2:45)

[varkam]

30. Ah, I see. Much thanks for the explanation.

It all makes sense, now. :D

[AntiVax]

34. Never trust Goldacre, more like

http://whale.to/b/goldacre_h.html

[cosmik debris]

36. "impeccable academic credentials"

Here is an excerpt from the web site you keep spamming:

Ben Goldacre is a junior doctor in London and a shameless geek. He
writes the Bad Science column in the Guardian, debunking
pseudoscientific nonsense in cosmetics adverts, alternative therapies,
and flaky media science stories, and paid his way through medical
school repairing vintage 1970s analogue modular music synthesisers.

Aged 30, he has impeccable academic credentials, with a First in
Medicine from Oxford, a British Academy funded Masters in Philosophy
from KCL, has published academic papers in neuroscience and won prizes
in medicine and writing, including Best Science Feature from the ABSW,
netting £2,000 which he instantly spent on retro 1960s white space age
furniture for his squalid central London bachelor pad. He appears
regularly at obscure geek science and arts events, and on television
and radio (including ITV, Radio 4, and Resonance FM) ranting about the
public misunderstanding of science. He cycles everywhere and eats his
greens.

http://whale.to/vaccine/asbw1.html

Yep, never trust ANYONE with "impeccable academic credentials"!

[AntiVax]

35. Goldacre conflict of interest

In the name of transparency BMJ readers may like to know that Ben Goldacre is a research fellow at the Maudsley Hospital <1>. In this regard his prominent intervention in the WiFi dispute with the BBC Panorama programme earlier this year may be relevant <2>, noting that the Mobile Phones Research Unit which researches this issue <3> is for some reason part of the Institute of Psychiatry at the Maudsley Hospital

[AntiVax]

31. Most likely explanation

http://whale.to/a/electrical_h.html

[cosmik debris]

32. Death Towers? That's hilarious!

And the pictures! That just makes it more hilarious.

Thanks for sharing.

:)

Edit: By the way, are the Freemasons involved in this conspiracy, or is it just the Illuminati?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[varkam]

37. Lol! I think you misunderstand the meaning of "most likely explanation".

:rofl:

[Evoman]

39. That's because reception is better in those areas. It is easier for ex-girlfriends to call you and

get a hold of you.

Better reception = less dropped calls from ex girlfriends, in-laws, and lame friends = higher chance of suicide.

Bam. Evoman-solved, science approved, bitches.

[trotsky]

40. You, sir, are a freaking genius.

Case closed.

[Evoman]

42. And the solution is pretty fucking simple.

We need to bring back street break dance battles. You used to have a problem, you would just round up your b-boys and kick it crazy with your enemies on the dance floor. You'd not only take out your aggression in a productive way, but you'd school your problems with your mad skills. It's about hanging with homies, it's about showing the shorties how it works. It's about the music and the moves.

And if any person disagrees with me, then I only have one thing to say to you:

One thing I know is that life is short
So listen up homeboy, give this a thought
The next time someones teaching why don't you get taught?
It's like that, and that's the way it is.
HUH.