Use of Antipsychotics in Children Is Criticized

[groovedaddy]

WASHINGTON — Powerful antipsychotic medicines are being used far too cavalierly in children, and federal drug regulators must do more to warn doctors of their substantial risks, a panel of federal drug experts said Tuesday.

More than 389,000 children and teenagers were treated last year with Risperdal, one of five popular medicines known as atypical antipsychotics. Of those patients, 240,000 were 12 or younger, according to data presented to the committee. In many cases, the drug was prescribed to treat attention deficit disorders.

But Risperdal is not approved for attention deficit problems, and its risks — which include substantial weight gain, metabolic disorders and muscular tics that can be permanent — are too profound to justify its use in treating such disorders, panel members said.

“This committee is frustrated,” said Dr. Leon Dure, a pediatric neurologist from the University of Alabama School of Medicine who was on the panel. “And we need to find a way to accommodate this concern of ours.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/health/policy/19fda.html?th&emc=th

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. This is the most over-medicated generation of young people I've ever seen

I'm not exaggerating when I say that 2 out of 3 people I know under the age of 25 has some kind of "disorder" and is on meds for it, permanently.

[CoffeeCat]

2. It's disgusting...

Many children are unhappy. They're neglected, their stressed because their parents are stressed--and
many are abused.

When they begin to exhibit symptoms of PAIN--those symptoms are defined as a "disease." So, instead
of treating the child, we treat coping mechanisms.

Just what do we expect out of today's children...perfection? All of them to behave the SAME way? No
personality differences?

I think ADHD is a load of malarkey, to begin with--for most children. To further abuse these children
by giving them these powerful drugs, is despicable.

Now, they're is an onslaught of bipolar diagnoses in children. There's a rush to label, so the child
can be drugged. Many children who do not have these illnesses--are being abused by the system.

Sad.

[Sinti]

4. Spot on - our society is sick, the children show the symptoms

and we seem to punish them for it, or at least try to put them in some kind of chemical straight jacket. If they have a lot of energy, and act like children rather than small adults, we give them Ritalin. If they are calm, quiet children and lack energy (especially if they realize how imperfect their world really is) we give them anti-depressants. I'm pretty sure 90 percent of teenagers could be diagnosed with "bipolar" - we used to call it angst, rebellion, and growing pains.

[trotsky]

5. May I ask what professional qualifications allow you to declare...

that "ADHD is a load of malarkey"?

[CoffeeCat]

6. I said that it's a load of malarkey...

..."for most children."

ADHD is over diagnosed. It's a national epidemic that kids are being
labeled, drugged and their true pain ignored.

I've met hundreds of adult survivors of child abuse. A common theme
with many of them--is that their parents (many times the perpetrators
or the enablers who wanted to deny the abuse) treated the child as if
they were the problem. A problem to be labeled and treated with drugs.

Over and over, through the years, I hear this--and it damages children
and stunts healing.

The symptoms of ADHD are identical to the symptoms that a child in
distress experiences.

Abused children aren't the only victims of labeling that leads to over
medication. Many creative and spirited children, who pound to the beat
of a different drummer are often treated as abnormal, like there is something
wrong with them and they are often labeled and drugged.

Are there authentic cases of ADHD where children are helped by these
drugs? Sure. That's not the problem. The problem is that there
are some parents who are either too lazy, damaged or busy to deal
with pain that their children are facing---and the doctors and pharmaceutical
companies are all-too-ready to offer an easy solution with drugs.

[trotsky]

7. May I ask what surveys or research you've conducted...

(or can cite) that defines "most"?

[CoffeeCat]

8. You don't have to be armed with...

...a degree in pharmacy and a PhD in psychology to understand
that the NEW explosion in these diagnoses is an outrage
and a crime to these children.

Many Freepers asked for hard data when I asserted that Bush
was lying us into the Iraq war.

I wasn't armed with empirical data, pie charts, graphs, "surveys"
or "research" then, either.

I see this on a daily basis.

[trotsky]

12. So the answer to my question is "none."

You have no hard data, only your opinion.

Thanks for clarifying! :hi:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. An opinion is usually all it takes for a kid to be diagnosed and medicated

As for "hard data" the article in the OP has plenty of it. Hundreds of thousands of children are being given psychotropic medication with serious side effects for ADHD. Something is wrong with that picture and if you don't see it, I don't know what to tell you.

[trotsky]

22. Thanks for your uninformed speculation!

It is appreciated!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

24. My "uninformed speculation" comes straight out of the NY Times article in the OP

But thanks for playing! :hi:

[trotsky]

28. Oh, really?

Perhaps you could point out exactly where in the article it supports your statement that:

An opinion is usually all it takes for a kid to be diagnosed and medicated

I'll just wait right here.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

30. Um, because that's how kids usually get diagnosed and medicated?

By their doctor. Who forms an opinion and acts on it. Except when it's their school principal, as described by someone downthread.

Seriously though, how do you usually get diagnosed and medicated?

[trotsky]

33. You said you based that statement on the article.

Please point out where in the article it says that.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

36. Dude, the article is ABOUT 389,000 children being treated with Risperdal

How do children typically get treated with a drug? The Prescription Drug Fairy? :eyes:

Really, must everything be spelled out for you?

[trotsky]

40. So you admit the article doesn't say what you claim it does.

Thanks, that's all I wanted.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

48. Sigh. Once again, it says that 389,000 children were treated with a drug.

By doctors. Based on the opinion of those doctors.

[trotsky]

57. Nope, you're wrong.

Doesn't say ANYTHING about those kids being diagnosed based merely on the "opinion" of a doctor.

I am very sorry you refuse to see the facts.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

61. Well do tell me what they are being diagnosed on.

Because I'm seriously not aware of another way that people are diagnosed and medicated.

Is there a Prescription Fairy after all?

[varkam]

38. I guess that you've never undertaken any sort of advanced training...

in the fields of clinical psychology or psychiatry as, if you had, I wouldn't think you would relegate the act of giving a diagnosis to something of the level of merely giving one's opinion.

[trotsky]

41. C'mon, varkam, you know all too well..

that these people hold advanced training and education in CONTEMPT. All these threads end up stinking of anti-intellectualism - it's like right-wing talk radio bashing climate scientists. Certain people have strong emotional investment in a belief, so strong that any facts to the contrary must be dismissed with malice, and those bringing them forth judged with arrogant disdain.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

50. Well obviously there are people who do have an issue with those diagnoses

As the article in the OP indicates. They too are experts, possibly more so than a lot of the doctors (who may be GPs or in other non-psychiatric specialties, and they are apparently alarmed enough about these prescriptions of psychotropic drugs with often serious side effects to children with ADHD.

[trotsky]

58. Yep, there sure are.

However that still doesn't make your statement correct. For your information, since you seem to strongly believe otherwise, NO ONE here is arguing that there are zero kids who are medicated unnecessarily. What many of us object to is this high-and-mighty judgment of basically anyone in a professional position in a very knee-jerk and anti-intellectual manner. I.e., making statements - heck, PRONOUNCEMENTS - that are not supported by any facts or evidence. When you understand that and post accordingly, you'll find a lot fewer reactions and disagreements.

Just a tip.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

62. You and your buddy Fire Medic Dave seem to be the only ones getting offended.

You might want to listen to people with real life experience, in addition to the "experts" bought and paid for by Big Pharma. Just a tip.

[trotsky]

71. Let me know if you want to address what I said.

Otherwise I guess this discussion is done.

[cosmik debris]

80. Not true

There are others here who are offended by scientific illiteracy. And others who know that anecdotal evidence reported by biased observers is not reliable. And many others who don't believe that disagreeing with you means that we are bought and paid for--when you run out of made up anecdotes, you always resort to insults.

So yes, we are offended.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

82. Like the one who's "principal" prescribed a schedule 2 drug.

Those sound like really good people to listen to.

David

[Why Syzygy]

67. It's not opinion?

Are you telling me the DSM-IV is a scientifically proved manual? It is a compilation of OPINIONS.
Furthermore:
The initial impetus for developing a classification of mental disorders in the United States was the need to collect statistical information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders

You are willing to allow a statistical tool to evaluate the mental health of yourself and every other citizen?

You know very well that not all studies agree in outcome? A prescriber is going to have an OPINION on which studies he weights in his decisions. It will be influenced by a statistical tool. Just so you know how you measure up. Very brainiac.

[trotsky]

73. You are misinformed on this subject.

A doctor's diagnosis, yes, is *partially* based on opinion. But you and the other establishment-haters are blinded by your agenda and either refuse, or choose not to see that the process of diagnosis includes MANY other factors. No, you'd much rather (for some strange reason) sit in arrogant judgment of any medical professional because you've got TEH GOOGLE and know so much more than they learned in their 10+ years of school and research.

And you talk about brain explosions.

[Why Syzygy]

75. wow.. your other comment just instructed me to go on a search

for information to validate YOUR OPINION!
Yet, here you are trying to discredit me because of research I have done!

You have a miserable little life, don't you.

I don't even need to guess if you plan on saying what else diagnoses are based upon. Oh no.
Save us.

[trotsky]

76. Uh, what?

You and others on this thread appear to think that a doctor's diagnosis is nothing but an "opinion". That is blatantly false, and has been pointed out several times, but you can only respond by insulting me and claiming further things that aren't true.

Oh well. Peace to you.

[Why Syzygy]

78. It's true.

trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-21-08 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. LOL
You're new here, aren't you?
Tell you what - you have a star. You can do searches. Search this forum for RFK, "deadly immunity", etc. and find a past thread on it. It's been hashed and rehashed and now recycled once again because the anti-vaxers really have nothing else in the last 4 years they can cling to. This is it. So much like creationists, they simply bring out the same old demolished arguments acting like no one ever disproved them.


You tell me in one place to go look it up, and then turn around and criticize me for basing my point of view on independent research. Double bind. You've tied yourself into a knot.

I really can't imagine what you think you might be adding to the conversation here.
You appear very needy. You should ask your doctor to look that up in his book of indisputable scientific fact. more :sarcasm:

[trotsky]

79. I'm really trying to understand your attempt at logic here.

A DU search to look for an existing thread is supposed to be the same as medical research on a topic?

Do you truly believe that?

[CoffeeCat]

18. And your point is moot....

According to your logic--no one should be concerned about any societal problem
or ill--unless there is hard data and research to support the existence of
these failures.

I don't buy into that. Especially when the power brokers--and the ones who cause the
damage--control the flow of information and the research.

Often, change comes when brave people see a problem, make a lot of noise and enact change.

Then, when it becomes "acceptable" to acknowledge the uncomfortable facts--the research
pours in.

Not all of us need to wait for the guys in the lab coats to formally announce a problem--that
is clearly happening to millions of children--in front of all of us.

[trotsky]

21. My, what a lovely red herring!

Of course it's possible to be concerned about societal problems - BUT when you make universal proclamations like you have in this thread, you can expect to be called on it. The rest of your post is a fishmarket of more red herrings, so better luck next time! :hi:

[CoffeeCat]

23. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

Your "where are your studies and research?" line is the big red herring.

Your asserting that discussing this obvious epidemic is only legitimate
when someone does research in this area.

You're the one throwing up red herrings, in an attempt to squelch dialog
about this horrendous problem.

Sorry, it's not working.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

25. I'm wondering if this is personal for trotsky.

Hmm...

[trotsky]

27. I'm wondering if that's just a totally inappropriate ad hom...

since you have nothing else but personal attacks, apparently.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

31. Oh dear, I've really struck a nerve, haven't I?

[trotsky]

32. Typical response when confronted on a personal attack. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. Stupid people have that affect on him.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

51. Thanks for sharing.

You must be taking this personally too.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

54. Anything I can do to help.

[Why Syzygy]

68. lol ..

I don't know about you, but from here the brain explosions are palpable. :evilgrin:

[Hannah Bell]

66. He & his buddies role is to punish heretics that dare to question the medical party line.

One is not allowed to discuss those things here without experiencing their cutting rebuttal, laced with heavy doses of sarcasm & personal disparagement.

Their credentials are things like lab tech, nuclear medic, emt.

You know, heavy academics.

[trotsky]

72. Hey, ad hom buddy!

Nice to see your tactics still haven't changed.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

83. Thanks for showing us a glowing example of personal disparagement

I guess instead people should listen to posters who say their childs principal prescribed a schedule 2 drug. Sorry if you'll can't handle the heat.

David

[trotsky]

26. I'm sorry you are unfamiliar with how this works.

You made a claim, you're supposed to back it up. I know this probably makes you terribly uncomfortable, so you're trying to throw it back on me - but I have made no claims. I've merely asked you to document yours... and you can't.

[Hannah Bell]

65. you know what? i can give you reams of information about medical

practices supported by "hard data" from "experts", all of which turned out to be bullshit.

Knowing you're a silly little bully, I won't bother.

Oh, & spare me your "cutting" rejoinder.

It's pretty obvious what your function is.

[trotsky]

74. More name-calling?

Obviously you have nothing to contribute, when that's all you can bring to a thread.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

84. How about your credentials again?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. Guess who conducts many of the surveys and research now?

Big Pharma.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

9. Exactly.

It's simply absurd to believe that all of a sudden a substantially high percentage of kids has a disorder that pretty much no one heard of before they started selling drugs for it.

My bf's 19 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD years ago. Every day he wakes up and takes an Adderol. At night he takes Clonodine to "bring him down" so he can sleep. He takes a few classes at community college, has no job, and little in the way of a social life. He has no responsibilities around the house and can barely do anything for himself. While I mostly blame his mother for this (she dragged him to every doctor she could until she found one who would diagnose him with something) I'm irritated with bf as well. I honestly believe that this is a young man who is intelligent and perfectly capable of functioning in the world but doctors and his parents have pathologized what sounds like it was just some eccentric behavior. It is disgusting to gaslight and experiment with children like this and we are going to reap its effects in the coming years.

[Evoman]

64. I'm still mad at the mother-fuckers who invented antibiotics.

It is truly amazing how all of a sudden so many people had "bacteria" that no one had heard of, and all of a sudden bam....big pharma comes out with penicillin, and EVERYBODIES got infections.

Don't even get me started on anti-virals. GRRRRRRR.

[Why Syzygy]

69. Risperdol is a truly terrible drug.

Responsible doctors wont' even prescribe it for adults any longer.

When they say "metabolic" disturbances, that includes men and women lactating, extended bleeding, interrupted menses, shrunken testicles to name a few.

I would want to ask of the studies, what are you trying to do to my kid?

[imnothere]

59. I used to work in a school....these kids don't get enough exercise

Some are diagnosed as ADHD because they fidget or cannot concentrate. It's been shown that oxygen through exercise helps students to concentrate. We had gym every day. I remember getting a good workout at gym and recess and then being able to do my work. There wasn't all this talk about ADD or ADHD. I am with you. It's disgusting.

[groovedaddy]

3. 7 Years ago, I worked as an emergency certified special ed teacher in a middle school

On day, around lunch time, I happened to be in the counselors' office. While there, children were lining up for their "meds." I mentioned to one of the Counselors that there were alot of kids in line for meds. She responded: "About 1/3 of the students (600+) there received some sort of meds every day." I asked if most were getting stuff like tylenol or anti-biotics. "Some are, but the majority of them are taking meds for things like A.D.D. or other psychological or emotional problems."
It blew me away that this many children are on meds for stuff like this. Somethings wrong.

[Why Syzygy]

70. GERALD CELENTE:

http://www.trendsresearch.com/

GERALD CELENTE:
The World's #1
Trends Forecaster

Indicates that our financial meltdown is going to be exacerbated by the number of citizens on these kinds of drugs. If the supply suddenly dries up, millions of people will go into horrific withdrawals. The pharmcos are already making noises about need money. From the government. Of course. I hope to goddess the American citizen has had enough corporate fascism.

[groovedaddy]

77. My hope too. Man, that would be one hell of mess - millions going through withdrawal!!! n.t

[kurt_cagle]

11. Home schooling because of meds

A couple of years ago my wife was having some serious medical problems that often left her physically exhausted and depressed. My youngest daughter, starting out at school, picked up on a lot of this and started having problems at school, but these were exacerbated by a teacher who was almost criminally inept. As my daughter fell further and further behind, she started having behavioral problems, including times when she ran away from her teachers. We finally started working with the special needs teacher (who was basically paid on a very provisional basis) who helped my daughter get back on her feet, but then the principal decided that my daughter was a "problem child" who should be medicated with Risperdal. When we refused to medicate her, the same principal refused to take her in the school (significantly, she had also been trying to get the special needs teacher fired because she was critical of other decisions the principal had made).

We've finally had enough. We're doing a combination of home schooling and a distance learning program with occasional outside events to keep my daughter from being isolated. She's improved dramatically in terms of where she is academically and has had far fewer emotional problems. It's a challenge for us financially, since it keeps my wife from working, but at least we know that our daughter is actually being taught - and isn't being bullied into taking a fairly nasty antipsychotic simply because it's convenient for a school administrator.

I used to be fairly supportive of the the school system, but it is increasingly failing more and more of the students under its charge. Some of this I attribute to Bush's disastrous school policies, but I also think that he only aggravated an already serious situation.

[mzmolly]

14. Bravo to you and your wife!

I have a similar story, though we left the public school system before medications were suggested, thankfully.

[CoffeeCat]

15. I applaud you for being...

proactive parents who went out of your way to help your daughter.

Many parents succumb to the pressure, and fill their kids with unneeded drugs.

Your daughter's improvement demonstrates that she was not the problem. Many
times it's the teachers, the principal or both.

Where in the world does a principal get off dispensing medical advice, and kicking
a child out of school if based on your failure to follow his medical advice? That's outrageous.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

17. Thank you.

Meanwhile, you're getting shit on this thread by someone demanding "hard data". The people who raise the alarm about all these diagnoses and the ensuing medication are greeted with skepticism and derision and asked what their credentials are, but some elementary school principal gets away with prescribing specific meds to a parent. Unreal.

[trotsky]

29. You're so confused on this issue you can't even see straight.

some elementary school principal gets away with prescribing specific meds to a parent

1. You are taking the word of a poster on an anonymous Internet board to even assume this event happened exactly as related.

2. Principals, no matter how long they've been on the job, cannot prescribe medication. Good grief.

Sorry I'm such a stickler for facts instead of rumors and unconfirmed suspicions.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. So you're saying the person I responded to is lying?

Why don't you type it to their face?

[trotsky]

35. Nope, didn't say that at all. Leave your strawmen out of this.

I'm saying that we have NO WAY of knowing if the story as told really happened. Which any intellectually honest person must admit is the case. Unless you personally witnessed it all?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

37. Well the person who did witness it all is right here on this thread.

And I notice you're still babbling to me instead of going directly to the source of the story.

Whatsa matter? Are you scared? :shrug:

[trotsky]

39. Are you choosing to miss the point?

I said the only report we have to go on, is from an anonymous poster on an Internet message board. Are you saying we should believe EVERYTHING on the Internet? Honestly, you must really be upset that you've lost every argument on this thread to resort to such ridiculous tactics.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

49. Are you choosing to not ask the person making the report on the Internet?

Why yes, it appears you are!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. You are the first person who mentioned the principal prescribing medication.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

63. Ah, you're getting specific about the wording.

Okay, I'd suggest you ask the parent personally instead of debating with me about it. He's right here on this thread. Respond to him or PM him. Like your buddy trotsky, you are blabbing to me about it instead of going straight to the source.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

85. You are the first one to say it, the parent didn't say that, you did.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

55. I'm saying they are mistaken.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. The principal wrote a prescription for a schedule 2 drug?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

44. The principal wrote a prescription for a schedule 2 drug?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

16. That is unbelievable.

A principal recommending a specific medication? Sick. :puke:

[CoffeeCat]

19. We didn't use to treat children this way...

Children were allowed to be children.

We didn't require that ALL children act THE SAME--like dumbed-down clones.

When they misbehaved in school, they were disciplined and there were consequences for behavior.

Now, we treat personality differences as some kind of outrage, and then these kids are whisked off
to the doctor with a final stop at the pharmacy.

Can you imagine how many drugs Jim Carrey would have been forced down his gullet before the fifth grade, had
he been raised today?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

20. It's horrible.

It's pathologizing childhood and gaslighting children.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

Yeah we used to drill holes in their skulls.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

52. Really?

If so, then you should be in prison.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. Yes as long ago as 7000 b.c.

Sometimes it even worked. No sense in letting the facts ruin your preconceived ideas though.

David

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. No sense letting common sense get in the way of your worship of Big Pharma.

BTW, what meds are your kids on?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

81. I don't know my wife takes care of it.

Of course they are of the four legged variety. I'm supposed to support the people who are paying me to be here to sweep these ugly things from DU, I believe that's how the accusation goes. Just in case you wanted to switch it from Big Pharma Worship.

David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. Yeah we used to drill holes in their skulls.

[moc]

47. A school teacher tried to bully my boss into medicating his daughter. Problem is, he's a

psychiatrist, so it didn't go too far. However, it's easy to see how difficult it would be for parents without the training my boss had to effectively push back on this.

I think the experience with your daughter illustrates how most (if not all) behavioral health issues have to be viewed within the broader context in which they occur. As I mentioned downthread, my husband is a clinical social worker in private practice, so by virtue of his training, he views these issues through a ecosystems lens - the child embedded in the family embedded in society. Only by considering how all of these contexts interact can we effectively treat the identified "patient".

The problem is that our society doesn't support behavioral health care. Insurance companies don't reimburse for behavioral health, and if patients don't have coverage they don't seek care. Cutting behavioral health coverage has been a favorite way to try and contain health care costs. Reimbursement rates are low, and there are not enough providers. Most schools don't have qualified counselors. Children with identified needs have few resources to be referred to. So, they figure a "pill" will "fix" it.

[moc]

46. My husband sees this all the time.

He's a clinical social worker/therapist in private practice specializing in child/adolescent. It is very common for him to see patients misdiagnosed or on the wrong meds. One of the problems seems to be unqualified professionals prescribing psychotropic medication, specifically primary care providers such as pediatricians who don't have the requisite training in behavioral health to appropriately evaluate, prescribe and monitor psychotropic medications.

However, sometimes it is those professionals who should know better doing the misprescribing. A case in point - my sister's sister-in-law is a seriously dysfunctional mother. (Example, her routine way of disciplining her 6yo son was to lock him in the closet for extended periods of time.) She was under supervision by child protective services. This mother was taking the 6yo to psychiatrists because he was "out of control". She was obviously "doctor-shopping" but finally found one who diagnosed the 6yo as psychotic and put him on seroquel. A 6yo. On seroquel. :-O Oh, and he prescribed seroquel for the 4yo younger brother too.

At this point, my sister was very concerned about her husband's nephews. She called my husband for advice. Now, granted, my husband had never officially evaluated these kids, but he'd interacted with the two boys at a number of joint family events to be familiar with their behavior. My husband treats some pretty serious cases; he has young patients diagnosed as psychotic so he knows what it "looks" like. He had never observed anything in these two boys that would suggest they were psychotic, never mind needed to be on something as powerful as seroquel. So, do I think these boys were mismanaged medication-wise? You bet.

Call me cynical, but I think this is a serious problem. Yes, there are kids who very much need these medications. My husband sees these patients every single day. When it comes to ADHD, *true* ADHD, dh is an advocate of Russell Barkley (I think that's his name) who is a strong supporter of the role for medication in treating ADHD. Dh likens it to having diabetes - if you were dx'd with diabetes and told you needed insulin, you'd never question it. ADHD is the same. It's a biological issue that can benefit from a pharmacological solution.

However, medication is only part of the treatment. Effective behavioral health treatment that requires medication also requires "talk therapy", specifically cognitive behavior therapy. There's no "magic pill". Unfortunately, many parents demand, and many providers are more willing to play along, that there be a "magic pill" to "fix" their kid, no other effort required. Once, dh had a patient recently discharged from the hospital in his office for evaluation with his parents for outpatient therapy. The child was 12yo and had been in and out of hospitals for 6 years. As dh observed and evaluated, he informed the parents that if he was going to work with them, then they (the parents) were going to have to learn how to tell their son "no". (Apparently, the kid had been bouncing off the walls without the parents making any effort to discipline him.) The parents flat out told dh that's not what they wanted. They just wanted a pill. Dh told them that wasn't how he worked. He never saw them again.

[BridgeTheGap]

86. Where are the studies on the effects of these drugs on the DEVELOPING brain?

I haven't seen them. Are there any?
These drugs severly jack around with brain chemistry. Admittedly, they are called for in some instances - i.e. schizophrenia, but use on children is essentially using these kids as lab rats.

[conscious evolution]

89. Thats what I wonder.

[Morpheal]

87. Antipsychotics and Children

Improve the education system substantially and you won't need to medicate children
into various forms of oblivion in order to have them functional within its confines.

Education is so sick that there is no currently known treatment or cure for it.
You cannot medicate a system, so you medicate the victims of it.

The best measure of whether an education system is sick or healthy is the growth
or decline in the prison population in a nation. The more prisons and the more
crowded they are the more need to fire all the educators.

Cheers.

Robert Morpheal

[salvorhardin]

88. I don't think that's true

The best measure of whether an education system is sick or healthy is the growth or decline in the prison population in a nation. The more prisons and the more crowded they are the more need to fire all the educators.

I thought the real reason for the growth of the prison population in recent years was due to the "War on Drugs" and stricter sentencing (especially mandatory minimum sentencing). Overall, crime (as measured by numbers of arrests) is down 3.3% from 1998, yet arrests for drug abuse violations are up 17.6% from 1998.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_32.html

There's no question that it's shameful that one out of every hundred people in this country is in prison. I don't think you can blame the educational system for this though. While it might seem reasonable to assume if we were able to better teach critical thinking skills that people wouldn't be so quick to failed programs like the "War on Drugs" or pass harsh sentencing laws. I'm not sure that's the case though. People tend to approve of the "War on Drugs" and harsh sentencing for moral reasons and safety concerns. Morality in this very religious country is primarily driven by religion, and humans are just bad at judging risk. I don't see either of those going away. Sadly, I don't know what to do about it either.