Dentist spushing procedures on Us?

[annofark]

I am getting really sick of trying to find a dentist that isn't always trying to push certain procedures on me. A friend of mine told me that since American's teeth are so healthy these days (b/c of education and better products) dentists are trying harder and harder to make money.

My issue is how do I know when I really do need to get a procedure done and when is it a load of crap?

[sui generis]

1. I broke a crown skiing like a maniac two weeks ago

probably not a load of crap for me, gawd I'd rather have three root canals than one crown replacement though.

BTW what procedure are they recommending?

[annofark]

9. THEY ARE PUSHING

GUM GRAFTS...whitening...among other things

[Angry Girl]

14. Did you know there is a vaccine for tooth decay?

It appears to have been out for some years too (see below).
I wonder why they haven't it available this public yet.... Any thoughts?
Also, there is a cheap, reliable way of avoiding cavities: Don't eat sugar and don't eat high-carb, processed foods (i.e., don't eat the typical Western diet)!
But as for broken teeth and the like, well, good luck with that....

April 29, 1998
Scientists develop vaccine against tooth decay

Researchers say they have developed a safe, effective and painless vaccine that could prevent tooth decay by eliminating bacteria from the mouth.

Continued....
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9804/29/tooth.decay/

Fall 1999
A Nasal Spray for Tooth Decay? New Vaccine Could Curb Cavities
http://main.uab.edu/show.asp?durki=25357

January-February 2002
Vaccine for Tooth Decay
http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/01026.html

February 2002
GM bacteria may banish tooth decay
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1941

November 2005
Tooth Decay Vaccine Shows Promising Results
http://www.fluoridealert.org/news/2460.html

[ret5hd]

2. they always try that crap on me too.

and i don't know why.

[Orrex]

3. Happens to me, too

Every dentist I've visited during my adult life, after addressing my immediate and pressing problems (cavities, etc.), almost immediately began outlining a lengthy plan for my mouth, beginning with at least 6 crowns.

I'm not a wealthy guy, and I marvel constantly at how many basic dental procedures aren't covered, or are covered only fractionally, by my dental insurance. Each crown, for example, would set me back about five to eight hundred bucks, depending on what other maintenance might be needed.

I would love to live a life in which I can say "sure, put that $5000 procedure on my bill, and let's get started." But I live in the real world, where I have to weigh the inconvenience of a cavity against the inconvenience of the $60 - $100 it would cost to take care of it. A $5000 undertaking might as well cost a billion dollars; it would be no less accessible to me.

But to determine what procedures are really necessary for you, well, you need a qualified second opinion from a dentist or oral surgeon or whatever who's not affiliated with your primary dentist.

[NeoGreen]

4. I recently had this discussion at the office water cooler...

and it was suggested that I find an older dentist/office verses a new/young one.
Presumably one who has all his student loans paid off and kids out of college.

I was told that there is a inverse correlation between age of dentist and number of procedures recommended.

[trotsky]

12. That could be very true.

My current dentist is actually an office of several dentists, most of them fairly old. Just had a checkup yesterday, as a matter of fact, and was told again no cavities, and everything looks good.

[PetraPooh]

5. When you find an honest one travel high and long to see him.

I have had only one honest dentist. He is far from me now so I haven't seen a dentist in over 10 years and have learned to actually clean and polish my own teeth. . .so barring something big I should be able to hold tight. BUT here is what happened and how he told me to tell honest dentists from dishonest ones EVEN about cavities.

Initial visit he is looking at my fillings, I have six. He is very confused and asked why I have these fillings. Well I was told I had cavities. No, he says, if you had cavities you fillings wouldn't be so shallow. (Now a brief step back, I am more afraid of the needle than the drill so I have always had full feeling in my mouth/teeth and though drilling dead tooth doesn't hurt, once they hit live healthy tooth it is really bad, so no one had been able to drill deeper than was truly needed) Anyway this honest dentist was livid about the unnecessary fillings in my mouth and told me the following If the dentist doesn't show you an xray with a visible cavity in your tooth, you don't have one! The idea that a dental instrument "sticks" a little or even a lot when stabbing at the tooth means NOTHING except that the tooth has contours that can be used to cheat you, OR that you may have a minor soft spot that will come and go sometimes forever; never requiring a filling.

Anyway, I left the city he is in back in 1991 and the new dentists tried but never succeeded in yanking my chain. Since my teeth are like rocks, I finally just quit going because everytime they tried to tell me, "now we've got to get that one filled soon." I would ask how long till it really became a problem, tongue in cheek of course because he never showed me an xray. "oh, by the years end you will really be suffering." Well it has been twelve years and nothing is suffering nor decaying.

Especially beware dentists who have just gotten married, or just had a baby, or has kids of any age. Dentists are soooooooo dishonest. I have yet to find an honest one here and I did look sincerely for three to four years, covering about 5 dentists (paying for the visit each time) and then gave up.

[Warpy]

8. I've been lucky enough to find quite a few honest dentists

and if anybody in central NM is looking for one, PM me and I'll tell you the names of the ones (a general dentist and a surgeon) that I've found here.

No, neither guy is cheap, but neither has ever hurt me, has never pushed procedures, or has never done anything but excellent work.

[annofark]

10. Thanks PetraPooh

"If the dentist doesn't show you an xray with a visible cavity in your tooth, you don't have one! The idea that a dental instrument "sticks" a little or even a lot when stabbing at the tooth means NOTHING except that the tooth has contours that can be used to cheat you, OR that you may have a minor soft spot that will come and go sometimes forever; never requiring a filling."

It is sort of obvious...but I never even thought of that. Next time I want them to show me the X-Rays. Also, I think the reason this has become so annoying is because in my hunt for a good dentist in all first time visits of a new dentist they make me pay for X-Rays..even if another dentist sends them over.

Also, it is hard to get time off to see a dentist.

[Arger68]

6. Too funny!!

I just left a new dentist's office a couple hours ago. They said I had 7 cavities and it would cost about $2500.00 to get everything fixed. My old dentist is going to get another visit from me, since he doesn't do any extra unnecessary things. One thing I don't like about him though, he doesn't clean my teeth as well as I would like. I wish I could just find a dentist that does a good job cleaning teeth and anything else that I actually NEED. Funny, while I was typing this the dentist I saw this morning just called me all pissed off that I had requested my $122.00 in x-rays that they took this morning!!

[madmom]

7. I actually had a good experience with one a year or so ago...

broke a tooth when I bit down on a piece of unpopped popcorn,went in to have it taken care of. He told me that he could cap it or but a crown on. He suggested a crown because if he capped it and I would have ANY any more trouble (with the same tooth) before a year was up my insurance would not cover it. This way it's done and over with all problems taken care of from the outset. Got the crown, have had no problems at all.

another problem we have had tho is my daughter's orthodontist said she needed to have xrays to see if there was room for her wisdom teeth before he took off retainer,the dentist (same as above) says plenty of room, otho. says no there isn't, we'll wait. So who do you believe?

[trotsky]

11. Yes, and one of the ways the less scrupulous dentists do it

is by telling you amalgam is dangerous and the source of all your health problems, and they'll remove it and put different material in your mouth for a price.

[Orrex]

13. My dentist offered that treatment...

but only if I agreed to guzzle an aspartame cocktail while subjecting myself to Dr. Clark's Wacko-Quacko-Zappo Machine.

I haven't taken him up on it, yet...

[Ciggies and coffee]

15. Consider Mexico

Depending on your situation, a hop over the border can be worthwhile.
Quality work on your teeth for a fraction of the price, with a short vacation thrown in the bargain. google mexico dental, ignore the chicken littles.

[Quakerfriend]

16. Totally agree. They are some of the best.

It's funny how we are programmed to believe that we, in the US, have the 'best' health care. That of course, is utter, nonsense.

I went to a hospital in Tijuana to get well from advanced cancer. It took less than 5 weeks- And, today (almost 8 years later) I am completely well. But, many of the patients at the hospital went to have dental work while in town. They said these dentists were incredible!

Many in my family have had surgeries overseas. Eye surgery in Tijuana. Plastic surgery in Colombia. All excellent and all 1/2 the price!

[philb]

17. They have good prices but not all are equally competant

there are some good dentists there, but there are also some that there has been bad experience with.
DAMS is a dental support organization that keeps track of reports on effectiveness of treatment by dentists and
has a list of dentists that have had mostly good reports: 800-311-6265 for info on someone in your area, or Mexico

[philb]

18. The biggest problem is many still use mercury fillings, even though

its been documented by millions of medical tests that people get high mercury exposures from dental amalgams.

Studies and medical labs have documented that dental amalgam is the largest source of both inorganic and methyl mercury in
most people who have "silver fillings" http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr1.html

which are actually mostly mercury from which the mercury continuously vaporizes and galvanic electric currents between the mixed metals pumps mercury into the gums, jaw bone, oral mucosa, etc. and on to the rest of the body.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/galv.html

Those who have several amalgam fillings have mercury levels 10 times those without(on average), but those with 1 standard deviation more than average amalgam surfaces have 100 times more mercury exposure than those without amalgam. And levels of exposure hugely more than Gov't health standards, http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr1.html

and so high you can test them yourself by going to the dept of health and using their air mercury probe to measure the level of mercury in your oral air(put probe in the mouth) or go to Radio Shack and get an amp meter and measure the electric currents in the teeth pumping mercury into the body- which you can see at the base of teeth with big amalgam fillings or metal crowns over amalgam- called amalgam tattoos. If you have them look in the mirrow. (one probe on filling or metal crown and other to top of palate)

People with amalgams get so much mercury exposure that on average they excrete more than 30 micrograms per day into the home and business sewers(as documented by Municipal Sewer Agencies) so that dental amalgam is the largest source of mercury in sewers
(which all have high/dangerous amounts) and thus also the mercury goes into water bodies and is a major source of mercury in fish;
(the EPA health standard for mercury in water is 2 parts per billion because its so toxic, and its being recommended that this level isn't low enough to prevent harm) (amalgam exposure is hugely more than health standards)
http://www.flcv.com/damspr2f.html

and amalgam also major source of atmospheric emissions- since the high levels of mercury in sewer sludge at all plants is mostly outgased at the plants or is methylated by soil bacteria when land spread or landfilled and outgased;
plus crematoriums are documented to be a major source of mercury emissions due to those cremated who have amalgam fillings-
Europe is placing increasing controls on crematoriums- which are becoming one of the largest source of mercury emissions in countries like UK,etc.
http://www.flcv.com/damspr2f.html

[philb]

20. 3 states now have passed bills requiring dentists to warn patients

that amalgam fillings contain mercury which is highly toxic and can cause harm.
California, Maine, Connecticut.

The Connecticut Dept. of Environmental Protection now requires dentists to display, “prominently,” the fact sheet adopted by the state of Maine about mercury amalgam. The requirement is part of the state’s Best Management Practices for dentists: http://dep.state.ct.us/wst/mercury/dental_bmp.htm
The word mercury is displayed right in the title, telling patients their choices between “Mercury Amalgam and other fillings materials.” It provides plenty of useful information: Amalgam fillings are 40 to 50 percent mercury; they give off mercury vapor – how much depends on your number of fillings, your chewing and grinding of teeth, and quantity of hot liquids you drink; and mercury from the fillings enters the bloodstream.
And get this: They can be the body’s largest source of mercury: “For people with a number of fillings, this can be the major way mercury gets into their body.”
The fact sheet is agnostic about its dangers, saying it can’t confirm it either way. But with the risk stated, the rule of precaution would lead to but one conclusion – unless the patient is taken in by the rhetoric of the ADA or a pro-mercury dentist.
But here’s the key: “The brains of babies and infants that are starting to form and grow are most at risk.” With that, I believe the dentist has no choice but to recommend an alternative for a child or a pregnant woman! Indeed, the fact sheet says that Canada does just that – no mercury fillings for children, pregnant women, or people with kidney problems or braces. Also, such warnings exist for nursing mothers.
Finally, the fact sheet warns that the mercury from fillings gets into the water, methylates, and gets into fish and other wildlife – then suggests that factor alone could be a reason to choose an alternative.
The Connecticut fact sheet is at http://dep.state.ct.us/wst/mercury/fillings_brochure.pdf The other two working fact sheets, California’s and Maine’s, can be found, respectfully, at http://mainegov-images.informe.org/dhhs/boh/files/odh/25-108-02%20PTMIental%20brochur.pdf and www.dbc.ca.gov/pdf/dmfs2004.pdf; the California Proposition 65 warning, advising that amalgam has mercury, which is a reproductive toxin that can cause birth defects, is attached.

this is a someone's post on another forum.
But I'm familiar with these states statements, and my documentation helped in getting them passed.
Note that lots of peer review occurs on information before a Legislature passes a bill on health issues.
Lots more states will pass such next year.

[FM Arouet666]

19. I have to agree, a doctor who hates dentists..

My current dentist is a decent guy, offered me additional work If I wanted it, but no hard sell. Probably because he refers out to another dentist which specializes in cosmetics.

The dentist I saw before this chap did do cosmetic dentistry. He missed two cavities, had me come back three times for x-rays, reconstructions, showed me a video model of my mouth etc. Finally, he recommended, hell he insisted, that I need veneers. Bright white caps for all my teeth, sure to give me that Hollywood smile. Great! Oh, wait, 15,000$. You have got to be kidding me!

15 grand for my mouth? I can't think of one part on my body that I would spend that amount of money on for no other reason than cosmetics. Well, I take that back, ok, maybe one. But it ain't my mouth. :evilgrin:

My advice, if your dentist specializes in cosmetic dentistry be wary of his advice. Or, as I offer patients all the time, get a second opinion.

[philb]

21. I became disabled and was diagnosed with mercury posioning by my

GP using a blood test- which I later found out isn't a reliable way to test or diagnose mercury body burden or toxicity.

I had chronic fatigue, peripheral neuropathy, paresthesis(numbness in extremities), muscle weakness and muscle wasting, balance problems, mental confusion, arthritis, and Fuch's Disease(two opthamologists told me I was going blind).

But after some research I found all of these are commonly caused by mercury, so I got my many amalgam fillings and metal crowns over amalgam replaced, plus also had a few root-canaled teeth extracted and had to have bridges instead-
so I ended up going in debt and spending over $40,000 getting my mercury gone and other problems taken care of.
But its been well worth it, as I've recovered from all of this and can even play sports again and am healthier than I've been for a long time. And rather than going blind, I don't need to wear glasses now for the first time since I was 13 years old, except to
drive at night.

Thousands of others are documented to have recovered from disability like me,
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/hgremove.html

There are thousands of medical studies that document the mechanisms by which mercury causes over 30 chronic health conditions,
and that people commonly recover when replacing their amalgams properly.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/indexa.html