Deadly Immunity from Rolling Stone

[Why Syzygy]

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. investigates the government cover-up of a mercury/autism scandal

Even many conservatives are shocked by the government's effort to cover up the dangers of thimerosal. Rep. Dan Burton, a Republican from Indiana, oversaw a three-year investigation of thimerosal after his grandson was diagnosed with autism. "Thimerosal used as a preservative in vaccines is directly related to the autism epidemic," his House Government Reform Committee concluded in its final report. "This epidemic in all probability may have been prevented or curtailed had the FDA not been asleep at the switch regarding a lack of safety data regarding injected thimerosal, a known neurotoxin." The FDA and other public-health agencies failed to act, the committee added, out of "institutional malfeasance for self protection" and "misplaced protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry."
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

Related video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKjCpkyAbSY

[LibinMo]

1. I was hoping to see RFK Jr up for an Obama cabinet position

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. "institutional malfeasance for self protection"

Yeah. That's reached epidemic proportions,

[Warpy]

3. It's too bad such an intelligent man allies himself with a lost cause

because no investigation has found any link at all between the minute and non bioavailable mercury based preservatives in vaccines and autism.

Research is showing, however, that autism is a congenital condition that presents itself during later infancy.

To all the mercury conspiricists I'd like to ask one question:

Since mercury preservatives have been removed from childhood vaccines for the past few years, why haven't the rates of autism gone down?

Kennedy needs to find a new windmill to tilt at.

[mzmolly]

4. Mercury is in the flu vaccine and others in trace amounts.

Kennedy and others will be vindicated in the future.

[Warpy]

6. Only in the flu vaccine for children and it's not mandatory

and can be avoided by giving the nasal vaccine.

Pick another windmill. This one's fallen down.

[mzmolly]

8. It's not mandatory, yet. You said mercury was removed from vaccines which is incorrect.

You also appear to assume that mercury in vaccines is the only vaccine avenue to autism?

However, before recommending the alternative to the mercury laden shot, note that Flumist is not recommended for children under two and/or those with various medical conditions:

Do not administer FluMist to children <24 months of age because of increased risk of hospitalization
and wheezing observed in clinical trials. (5.1)
• FluMist should not be administered to any individuals with asthma or children < 5 years of age with
recurrent wheezing because of the potential for increased risk of wheezing post vaccination. (5.2)
• If Guillain-Barré syndrome has occurred with any prior influenza vaccination, the decision to give
FluMist should be based on careful consideration of the potential benefits and risks. (5.3)
• Administration of FluMist, a live virus vaccine, to immunocompromised persons should be based
on careful consideration of potential benefits and risks. (5.4)
• Safety has not been established in individuals with underlying medical conditions predisposing
them to wild-type influenza infection complications. (5.5)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. Actually he said mercury had been removed from all childhood vaccines.

[mzmolly]

26. Regardless, it's false. Parents are being encouraged to vaccinate children for influenza.

http://www.cispimmunize.org/ill/Flu/Influenza%20Recommendations.pdf

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. It's not a mandatory childhood vaccine.

[mzmolly]

32. Who said

it was? It's being promoted, not mandated. There isn't generally enough to go around, let alone mandate.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. You falsely stated that Warpy said that thimerosal had been removed from all vaccines.

I simply corrected you.

David

[mzmolly]

38. No I didn't

I corrected the notion that mercury had been removed from "childhood" vaccines.

Here is the statement I responded to.

"Since mercury preservatives have been removed from childhood vaccines for the past few years, why haven't the rates of autism gone down?"

This statement is false. The Flu vaccine is recommended for children as young as six months, and it's now being recommended for pregnant women.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Post #8 "You said mercury was removed from vaccines which is incorrect."

[mzmolly]

40. Note the word "all" is missing, which is why context and comprehension

is important.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. Note he never said that, which makes your statement false.

[mzmolly]

47. Again I defer to the

context and contradictions in posts 3 and 6.

We were discussing mercury in the context of CHILDHOOD vaccines.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

50. Thimerosal has been removed from all mandatory childhood vaccines, not hard to understand.

[mzmolly]

52. The word mandatory was not used, and the case was made that autism

rates should be greatly declining given "mercury has been removed from childhood vaccines."

However, it's also false to say that all mandatory childhood vaccines are mercury free. Some still contain trace amounts.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. So if the "high" levels of "mercury" were reduced to trace amounts, wouldn't the cases decline?

[mzmolly]

56. Not if we're mass vaccinating pregnant women and small children with the flu vaccine. However,

trace amounts may be enough of a catalyst in a vulnerable individual. We also have the potential issue with the MMR vaccine.

I find it curious that the CDC would promote the "mercury has been removed from vaccines" b.s. while at the same time encouraging a vaccine that contains mercury for pregnant women and small children. So if autism does not decline (and mercury remains in vaccines) we'll know why there is little confidence in that talking point eh?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

58. So even though children are exposed to far less "mercury" than were previously..

we should expect to see a continuing rise in rates of autism?

[mzmolly]

59. Ridiculous response once again.

I never suggested we'd see a "rise" in autism I said we may or may not see a decline as we don't know the threshold in vulnerable individuals. The talking point about mercury removal is moot given it's false.

However speaking of rising rates of autism, the Minnesota born Somali population is experiencing an autism epidemic ...

http://wcco.com/specialreports/somali.community.autism.2.780309.html

Perhaps if we take an honest look, we'll find the answers?

Good night, I'm done.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

60. Not as ridiculous as your willingness to overlook the obvious.

[mzmolly]

61. I've had more intelligent conversations

with my friends toddler.

Cheers.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. The toddler didn't think so.

[mzmolly]

63. Assuming you speak for

those who share your mentality, I'll take your word for it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

64. It's ok we know you can't help it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

55. No answer?

[mzmolly]

57. Sorry I was late in my response.

Life calls from time to time. ;)

[Why Syzygy]

66. When the video was recorded .

there were still stores of tainted drugs on the shelves of doctors and pharmacies.

[Liberal Veteran]

90. So it's like homeopathic mercury?

:rofl:

[Why Syzygy]

65. The supplies may be dwindling ..

there was never an actual RECALL, so some doses were used up from supplies on hand.

What's worse, these unsafe injections are being exported to third world countries. China has seen a sharp increase in autism.

See the youtube link for more info on America exporting autism and how far that will go with our worldly influence.

[LeftishBrit]

87. China has seen a sharp DECREASE in children dying before the age of 5

In the early 1950s before all those evil vaccinations, about 20 percent of Chinese children died in infancy or early childhood. Now it's about a tenth of that (still too high). There are of course other factors besides vaccines involved in the change - but vaccines are generally regarded as one of the more significant ones.

But obviously it's better for a child to die of a preventable disease than to have an eeeeeevil vaccination, isn't it? :sarcasm:

[Warpy]

88. Go look up what the shelf life of the various vaccines is

I double dog dare you.

[mzmolly]

5. Great interview on Imus.

Thanks for posting. I don't believe I've seen it previously?

[trotsky]

7. This article was discredited THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO.

When it was released. Next time, try to post something a little more recent.

[dreamnightwind]

10. Discredited? Not that I've seen

The only discrediting I've seen is ludicrous. It goes something like this: We've removed thimerosol from the vaccines. Yet autism diagnosis continue to rise. Therefore the thimerosol wasn't the problem. Looks ok on its face, so many buy it, but look a little deeper.

People are still becoming conscious about what autism is, and how to identify it. So diagnosis will be rising because of this.

Also there are many other environmental exposures which have been increasing as thimerosol use has decreased.

Also people think thimerosol is not used anymore, well it's just not true. I have a kid and we were conned into vaccines containing it a few times. The health "professionals" were very convincing, not very honest, and gave us little or no reasonable alternatives. Seriously. We cared, and went against the grain with our nurses and doctors, and still ended up with some of the stuff going into our child. Makes me sick to think about it.

Not a complete debinking here, just a few points. If the thimerosol link has been legitimately disproven, post some info, I just want to know the truth. The "evidence" of no linkage I've seen so far has not been credible.

[trotsky]

12. Well of course not, when you keep your eyes firmly shut.

Which every good anti-vaxer does when confronted with facts.

[Why Syzygy]

68. At the date the video was recorded ..

thirmerosol is/was being exported to children in other countries! We are exporting autism. It's very sad and alarming.

[TZ]

76. Wow what lies.

Evidence huh..I guess you don't bother to get evidence from SCIENTIFIC institutions like..NIH...
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosalqa.htm
WHO-
http://www.who.int/immunization_safety/ispp/ispp_final_report_thiomersal/en/
But what the hell do scientists know anyway, right?:sarcasm:

As for being "conned" into getting a flu vaccine with thimerosol (the only vaccine that has it) thats bullshit. You are GIVEN an information sheet about a vaccine before administered. If you can't or won't be bothered to READ THE FUCKING PAPER then don't start whining about dishonest doctors and nurses. Your post is dishonest in the extreme btw.

[Warpy]

11. This is all the antivax people have

and none of them has answered my question except to lie about it.

[Why Syzygy]

67. Then kindly post the discredit

right here and now. I'm hardly going to go on your word when I have a public servant heavy weight telling me otherwise.

[trotsky]

70. LOL

You're new here, aren't you?

Tell you what - you have a star. You can do searches. Search this forum for RFK, "deadly immunity", etc. and find a past thread on it. It's been hashed and rehashed and now recycled once again because the anti-vaxers really have nothing else in the last 4 years they can cling to. This is it. So much like creationists, they simply bring out the same old demolished arguments acting like no one ever disproved them.

[Why Syzygy]

72. As it stands now

and to my knowledge it has not been disproved. Unless you intend to do that you're just wasting my time.

[trotsky]

73. Too lazy to do a simple search, huh?

Well I suppose you're not motivated, since it would actually prove you wrong. Can't blame ya.

[Why Syzygy]

82. I can only assume "trotsky" describes your carriage.

Palinesque?

[trotsky]

84. Since you have abandoned the topic, I'll consider this your surrender.

Done in by a request to do a DU search. Ah, I had such hopes for you.

[mzmolly]

9. Interesting to note that this piece was written before the US "vaccine court" ruled

that Hannah Poling is autistic due to vaccination. I know some will take issue with my verbiage but thems the breaks. ;)

[glitch]

13. This is the second time today this 3 year old article by RFKjr has been posted on DU

That seems odd to me, although of course I am always happy to see anything written by RFKjr get wider distribution.

Please satisfy my curiosity -- what prompted you to post this now?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. I got my flu vaccine a couple of weeks ago, I think I caught the autism.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. Why does this matter Jenny McCarthy has discovered a cure?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. See I'm responding to my own posts, it must be autism or it could be the concussion.

[glitch]

21. We are all praying that you find the help you need. Good luck!

Try chelation.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. Trying to decide whether or not go to the ER for the concussion.

[glitch]

25. It's a tough decision, that is true. What if it's worse than a concussion?

If you go they'll tell you it's just a concussion and to go home and rest.
If you don't go God knows what could happen.

Better safe than sorry, err on the side of caution. Free advice from an anonymous internet poster, to you.
Of course if you don't have medical insurance skip it, just visiting ER will cost $1000s.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. No worsening of the symptoms, I think I'll be okay.

[Liberal Veteran]

89. What a pity a promising scientist like J. McCarthy wasted her talents...

...to a be a celebutante.

[mzmolly]

17. I'm sure the parents of vaccine injured

children are amused. :eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. I doubt it, but they weren't injured by the flu vaccine.

[mzmolly]

20. You are asserting that no one has been injured by a flu vaccine?

:shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. No I'm asserting that no one developed autism from a single dose of the flu vaccine.

[mzmolly]

24. According to you autism is never a result of

vaccination, correct?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. A single dose of the flu vaccine has never resulted in autism.

[mzmolly]

30. According to you autism is never a result of

vaccination, correct?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. A single dose of the flu vaccine has never resulted in autism.

[mzmolly]

33. No one has ever received lung cancer

from cigarette smoking. :sarcasm:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. I don't think you can back that statement up scientifically.

[mzmolly]

37. That makes two of us.

However, you may wish to familiarize yourself with some of the bought and paid for science by big tobacco.

Here's one example:

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20071114_cardio-tobacco/

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. Someone else believes the same crap you do?

[mzmolly]

44. You don't know what I believe. However RFK Jr. is among those who feel that

mercury is a known neurotoxin and as such it should be removed from ALL vaccines.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. You said there were two of you.

[mzmolly]

48. I see

your running out of relevant things to say, again.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. Babies shouldn't be allowed to breastfeed then.

[mzmolly]

49. I'm not opposed to mothers milk being tested for mercury

so people can make an informed decision, you?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. Yes mothers should be informed that breastfeeding will result in more mercury exposure than vaccines

Then they'll see how stupid the anti-vax argument is.

[mzmolly]

54. "May" result .... However the method of delivery

is different and thimerosal may have an even greater impact on the brain according to primate studies conducted in 2005. I think mercury is a valid concern either way.

I'm particularly concerned about giving flu shots to pregnant women because no one has really identified the threshold dose for which thimerosal can become problematic for tiny fetuses. Certainly, the amount of mercury in a single flu shot is very small and most likely harmless. "It's equivalent to the amount in a small can of tuna fish," says Tom Clarkson, a mercury researcher at the University of Rochester. "Still, we know that high levels of mercury can affect cell division in the developing brain of a fetus, and no one can say with absolute certainty that there's no risk."

The other concern is that the kind of mercury found in vaccines is different from the methyl mercury found in fish. While thimerosal gets flushed from the body much faster than methyl mercury, what remains is more likely to accumulate in the brain, as inorganic mercury, and remain there for a year or more, according to a 2005 University of Washington study of infant monkeys. "We still don't have enough data to say how long this inorganic mercury stays in the brain, but if you can reduce or eliminate your baby's exposure, why wouldn't you do that?" says Tom Burbacher, a professor of environmental occupational health sciences who led the study.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/on-women/2008/9/26/an-option-flu-vaccines-without-mercury-based-thimerosal.html

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

85. ...

you perfectly exemplify the idiocy of the anti-intelligent.

As I said previously my comment about lung cancer was :sarcasm:

Perhaps rephrasing in kind will suffice for the party who deleted my original reply? Unless of course it's more PC to call someone a lunatic vs. an idiot? Time will tell I guess. ;)

[cosmik debris]

69. I'm sure RFK Jr. is a good lawyer

After all, he has prestigious law degrees.

But I prefer to trust medical decisions to doctors. And he doesn't have ANY training in the medical field.

History has proved him wrong on thimerosal. It is time to give up that worn out argument.

[trotsky]

71. Most of the "bleeding edge" anti-vaxers already have given up on thimerosal.

And they've gotten smarter - instead of targeting one specific ingredient, they speak of generic "toxins" and of "greening our vaccines." That way they've got their bets covered, and no amount of research can "prove" them wrong because ultimately even the killed virus in a vaccine is a "toxin". The leaders of the anti-vax movement don't ever want to kill their cash cow. They make tons of money as paid professional witnesses, selling books, giving talks, and their dupes swallow everything whole.

[Why Syzygy]

74. Oh yeah. That's it.

Their earnings really rival those of the pharmaceutical companies/federal agencies/medical associations.

:sarcasm:

[trotsky]

75. Red herring.

Do people make money from the anti-vax movement? Yes or no. It doesn't have to be on the order of billions of dollars for money to be a conflict of interest, you know.

[Why Syzygy]

79. I know you are but what am I. nt eom

[trotsky]

80. Ah, I see.

I hope you find peace.

[TZ]

81. Good job trotsky!

You got someone who's argument with you consists of childhood taunts! Pretty funny!:rofl: :thumbsup:

[trotsky]

83. When they don't have facts on their side, what else is left?

Color me not surprised. I've seen it far too many times in this forum, rather than address the facts, I'm attacked and labeled. I'm a paid shill for big pharma. I'm a doctor who is afraid to see my livelihood impacted by "real" medicine. If I kept track of every ad hom that's been thrown at me I would have filled up my hard drive by now. So a Kindergarten taunt is actually a nice change of pace. ;-)

[TZ]

77. Actually the anti-vaxxers are supported by

the holistic medicine/natropathic movement which IS a billion dollar industry. So YES their earnings do rival pharmaceutical companies.
But hey what the fuck does that matter. You know what you know and TO HELL WITH FACTS!

[cosmik debris]

86. The shills for Big Snake Oil will never give up!

The get their weekly checks from people like Kevin Trudeau to keep them posting this kind of mis-information.

:)

[dropkickpa]

78. Oh Noes!!!!!

I'm immune to Rolling Stone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!