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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:42 AM
Original message
Dr's Misdiagnose 20% of the time
That is what was in our KC paper this morning.

Personally I don't feel confident in a diagnosis from any doctor anymore.

And I sure don't trust the meds they hand out like candy.

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Changenow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. link? nt
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Let me see if I can fine it. It was on our front page.
It was an interesting article.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Here's a link:
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 12:20 PM by no_hypocrisy
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. Thank you. Should have known it would be in the Times n/t
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. What has happened to the Times?
Alas, more piss poor science "journalism." The author compares doctors to pilots, saying doctors "don't go down with the plane" to intimate that doctors don't care whether or not their patients recover and live healthy lives. The author further argues that doctors have no incentive to do their jobs right because there is no economic incentive to cure someone. Is this journalism or capitalist propaganda?

WTF? Doctors have no incentive? How ridiculous can one journalist get?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. So who can offer a better rate of correct diagnosis?
Sorry, but the expectation that physicians should know everything right away is simply unrealistic.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. That's exactly the question that should be answered...
before fearmongers cause people to start running away from doctors.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Some people are just phobes when it comes to medicine
because it's both overly intimate and hideously complicated. The whole experience of being sick and having to turn your life over to a stranger is an experience of being totally out of control. Add to that the fact that the average patient has absolutely no idea what's going on, and the experience becomes triply distressing.

Most people butch up and hope for the best, taking the pills and changing their lifestyles at least temporarily until they feel better. Some people are so afraid of being out of control that they'd rather stay sick and risk death than go to a physician.

Lots of people have gotten rich on the fear of the medical professions. They offer simple remedies and the illusion of control. Unfortunately, little of it has any effect beyond the placebo effect. There's a lot of quackery out there that is doing real harm to people that feeds on the fear of medicine.

The bottom line is that if you think something is wrong, go to a doctor. If you don't like the answer, get a second opinion. If both docs agree, then that's probably what's wrong and take your medicine.
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W_HAMILTON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. Doctors suck
Well, at least all the ones I've been to. I'm not sure I've ever had an accurate diagnosis of anything. If it's anything more complicated than a cold, or sinusitis, they have no clue what's going on. You just spend all this cash on all these tests, and they still can't figure out what's wrong. I've had some symptoms for close to five years now, and none of the doctors I went to ever could tell me what was causing it. Needless to say, I don't have much faith in doctors :)
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Then diagnose and treat yourself.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's not an exact science.
Unfortunately, there are misdiagnoses, it's inevitable. That's why it is always a good idea to get a second opinion. I recognize that may not be an option for everyone though.

About meds - best to be proactive. Educate yourself about any illness you may have and do some research about the medications that can treat it (the internet is your friend). That way, treatment options can be discussed with a physician instead of just being handed meds without knowing what they are and what they'll do. :hi:
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. i wonder what the percentage of patients who lie to their doctors is?
i'm guessing it's at least 20%.

what these sorts of things don't mention is the severity of the condition, the extent of the tests, the degree of the misdiagnosis, etc.

if you go to a g.p. with a headache, he's not likely to distinguish between classical migraine and cluster headache. but maybe he was able to successfully rule out a brain tumor. is that a misdiagnosis?

yes, errors happen in any human endeavor, but this is likely more of a slam piece than useful information.
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Heddi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. I'd say alot more than 20%
In the last 3 months:

Patient came into the ER--woman in her 30's. Vaginal bleeding. Asked her if she had recently had a baby--no. Unit Secretary sees if she's ever been in the hospital before and whaddya know--she had a baby THREE DAYS AGO. And she had the baby with her.

Patient came in with bleeding. Asked the patient if they were taking any aspirin? no. Were they taking "blood thinners" like heparain, coumadin, warfarin? No. Were they taking any medications at all? No. Patients wife comes in about an hour later with a list of medications longer than my fucking leg. Including Aspirin. Including Coumadin.

Patient comes in with chest pain. Asks if they've ever had previous heart problems. No. Have they ever had a heart attack? No. Do they have high cholesterol? No. Give the patient a gown and they take off their shirt and there's a huge scar across the chest. Ask what that is. They say "Oh, I had a quadruple bypass a few years ago, but that doesn't have anything to do with my heart"

Patient comes in with really wacky lab values. Ask the patient if they've ever had any major surgery. No. Any surgery at all. No. Any past medical problems. No. Find out that they had gallbladder and pancreas removed in last 5 years. Patient says "I forgot about that"

12 year old boy comes in to ER after falling, hitting head, losing consciousness and has a seizure while in the ER. Ask the mother if he has a seizure disorder. She says no. Ask if he's ever had a seizure before. she says no. Ask if he's had meningitis, etc, in the past. Says no. Asks about his medication--he's on an anticonvulsant. Ask why he's on it. "OH, he has epilepsy, but that has nothing to do with seizures. He doesn't have seizures. He has episodes where he shakes and drools, but he doesn't go into a seizure"

Patient on medical-surgical floor. Ask patient if they have any medication allergies. They say no. Physician prescribes antibiotic. Patient has severe reaction to antibiotic. Asks patient if this has ever happened. Patient says "Every time I take this medication I get like this". Tell patient that is considered an allergic reaction. Patient says "No, I'm not allergic, I just react badly to it"

Patient presents to ER with vague symptoms. Ask patient if they have any medical history of things like hypertension, diabetes, heart problems, cancer, etc? Patient says no. Patient is listed as having unremarkable medical history. Find out after consult with patient's primary care physician that patient is has Diabetes Mellitus and has been for last 35 years. Patient has primary hypertension. Patient has peripheral artery disease.

Patient presents to ER with vague foot problems. ask patient if they have ever had any foot problems in the past. Patient denies. Upon removing shoe, it is noted that patient has symes amputation of foot due to diabetic ulcerations and gangrene.

Patient presents to ER with GI distress. Ask patient if they are on medications. No. Have they had GI probs in past. Yes, but long ago. Any surgeries of any kind? no. Nurse leaves room and returns after patient has changed into gown and begins physical assessment. Notes a colostomy bag. Asks patient how long they've had it. Patient says they don't know. Upon further investigation, patient not only had colostomy, but about 90% of intestines removed. Patient said "I didn't think that was important"


Woman comes into ER with vague symptoms. Ask patient if she smokes. She says no. Can smell cigarette smoke on her, but could be from person she rode with, lives with, etc. When getting into patient's room, patient asks what she has to do to get a smoke around here. Again, perhaps she just quit. 10 minutes later, patient is seen on sidewalk smoking.

Patient presents to ER. Patient is asked if they have consumed alcohol within the last 12 hours. Patient denies. Patient is drinking from a cup. Upon further inspection, cup is found to have beer in it.
---

I'm not exaggerating. I'm not fabricating.

These aren't old patients. These aren't people with dementia. These aren't people with Alzheimers. These aren't people with mental illnesses. These are "normal" (in the medical sense) people who have no reason to lie. And I don't think they're "lying" in a purposeful way. I don't think they're doing it to deceive. THey just do it. I think people have become so accustomed to lying or hiding things from their doctors that they carry it through from PCP to ER or emergent situation

I think it's easy for people to lump ALL problems on the medical professionals. We're easy targets. We're SUPPOSED to be perfect, right? Mind readers. Psychics. Gods. Miracle Workers. But the reality is that there are ALOT of people who do not tell MD's and RN's the information NECESSARY FOR PROPER TREATMENT.

Same with hospital-aquired infections. SO many times we have patients that are on precautions--either neutropenic precautions because of their low WBC count, or contact precuations because of something they have (or decreased immune function makes them more suseptible to get things). And we have signs on the door for visitors to go to nurses' station before entering patient rooms. But you walk in the room and there's a snot-nosed kid sitting on Daddy's lap, and daddy is highly neutropenic with MRSA. Mom and kid never went to the nurse's station. Never gloved and gowned up. Never washed hands. Didn't even think that the sniffles Jr has could be serious detriment to Daddy's health. But if daddy gets sick while in the hospital, guess who's to blame? Mommy? Jr? No. It's the inept doctors and uncaring nurses that allowed daddy to get uncontroled viral infection.

Patients are on dietary restrictions related to their condition--low salt, low fat, low potassium, clear liquids, NPO (nothing at all), soft mechanical, ADA, CCU...all kinds of diet restrictions. Walk in the room of an NPO patient (who is NPO because of upcoming surgical procedure) and family member has brought in McDonalds which patient is happily munching down on. Or what about the elderly lady who was on a soft mechanical diet due to problems swallowing, and her loving husband brings her a home made sandwich which she proceeds to eat and choke on. Even though there was a large sign above her bed "DO NOT BRING FOOD TO PATIENT OR ALLOW PATIENT TO EAT WITHOUT NURSE PRESENT," he still blames the nurses for not making it more clear that she couldn't eat a sandwich.

Then there are the people who are on precautions for MRSA, C-difficile, VRSA, etc. Family members glove and gown up, but throughout stay, they remove gown and gloves. Touch patient then do not wash hands before touching themselves. Family member contracts C-difficile. Patient's family member tries to sue hospital for the infection.


What about the patient who kept losing weight and losing weight for no reason. Patient stopped having bowel movements after a time. Thought it was constipation so constipation protocol was put into place for patient--many laxatives and stool softners. STill nothing. Abdominal US was done, and there was no blockage and no stool. Did not make sense because every meal, the patient was recorded as having eaten 100% of their meal. Plates are nearly licked clean after every meal. Nurse walks in one day to find patient's wife eating patient's food (she was aware of the weight loss). Nurse asks patient's wife how long she's been eating his meal. She says every day since he's been in here. He doesn't like this food, she says. Patient suffers from severe malnutrition and electolyte imbalances because of this. Patient has to have feeding tube placed for gavage feeding. Wife objects, saying we are being unnecessarily cruel to her husband by placing a tube down his nose to feed him. Wife threatens suit against hospital for cruel and unusual punishment. Wife says she was doing nothing wrong by eating his meal and that we should have known before then that he wasn't eating all of his meal.
---
But yea. It's the medical profession. Not the patients. Not their family. No. It's us. The workers. The ones that work unpaid overtime because of a nursing shortage. The ones that work 16 hours a day to make sure that patients are cared for. The ones who would rather die themselves than mistreat a patient.

It's us. Not them. NEVER them.....
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. BRA - FUCKING - VO !!!
That is one of the best posts I have ever read on DU.

Or anywhere else.

You are to be commended, for the post and your choice of careers.

You have my respect and admiration.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. This is why we need to be able to recommend individual posts
and not just threads.

Thank you, Heddi. Not just for this post but for your service in what is fast becoming a thankless profession.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. Woot! Woot! Woot! Now that's the way to do it!
Giant clue-by-four to the head. Excellent post.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. Indeed.
And as the following thread shows, many patients dearly value their right to keep information from docs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2126726&mesg_id=2126726

Yet, apparently docs are supposed to know what's going on with them immediately.

It is a bizarro world.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. rAmen!
You said it sister! It's amazing how withholding information, skirting the truth, outright lying, failure to follow treatment plans and otherwise sabotaging treatment can ruin a patients chances of accurate diagnosis and recovery. Yet it is so often that the doctors and nurses are the ones who get the blame, because people have long ago stopped accepting responsibility for their own actions.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. My father was misdiagnosed as having Parkinson's Disease
The doctor retracted the diagnosis six months later.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. Hard work diagnosing someone in 3 minutes. Plus ya know
women's problems are all in our heads anyway!

I know a guy whose aortica anyeurism was diagnosed as --wait for it-- pancreatitus!

My mom has crohns disease that her Doc said was "just stress". For 35 years. He also diagnosed her migraines as sinus headaches. Her major depression and anxiety? Stress. He was a real asshat.

Years ago my husbands meningitis was called " a bad partydrug reaction" by an ER doc.
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Stress - typical diagnosis for women, IMO.
I've been losing weight with no reason for 2 years. Every time I've seen the doctor (every 6 months), I mention my weight loss. He has just looked at me and said it was stress.

Last time I went to see him I didn't even mention it. He looked at my chart and said "you've been losing a lot of weight!". I reminded him I've been saying that for 2 years. He asked me what I thought could be causing it - I told him that he'd been saying it was stress.

"Couldn't be stress - you've lost too much weight!" Then he starts questioning me as if he thought I was anorexic. Finally, he decided to do some tests.

Finally, I decided to find a new doctor.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
12. Sounds low to me.
ER docs are pretty good, the rest seem near useless in my experience.
"Take these three prescriptions and come back in a month and tell me how they worked ..."
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Me too, especially since doctors and drugs are leading cause of
death in the U.S.:

Medical system is leading cause of death and injury in US

Shocking statistical evidence is cited by Gary Null PhD, Caroly Dean MD ND, Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD and Dorothy Smith PhD in their recent paper Death by Medicine - October 2003, released by the Nutrition Institute of America.

"A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. Dr. Richard Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. The 2001 heart disease annual death rate is 699,697; the annual cancer death rate, 553,251.

Health Care expenditures in the US have reached 14% of the Gross National Product and a staggering $1.6 trillion in 2003. No wonder, one might be tempted to say. With such an appalling record of efficacy and such an unbelievable death rate for the treatments routinely administered, the current medical system can only be said to be in great need of deep reform.

Certainly it would appear more urgent to investigate the rationale, efficacy and relative cost-effectiveness of pharmaceutical medicine than to legislate restrictive rules for supplements of vital nutrients, as most governments and some international organisations are doing in these times.

-- more more --
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/10/29/medical_system_is_leading_cause_of_death_and_injury_in_us.htm
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I can't find my article. But your's was better, anyway.
I just went all over the KC Star site and couldn't find anything - but it is hard to find stuff on that site.

But I thought 20% sounded kind of low, too. When doctor only has two minutes its kind of hard to do a very good job.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Difficult to assess from this article
Here are some points to consider:

The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million.

Does that include episiotomies, circumcisions, elective procedures, and/or cosmetic surgery? Or is there evidence that doctors are prescribing unnecessary surgeries against the patients' wishes? If the former, then we can throw this statistic out for being unhelpfully non-specific. if the latter, then the next step must be to discipline the doctors and surgeons undertaking this unethical practice.

The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million.

What constitutes "exposure" in this case? And what defines "unnecessary hospitalization?" Does it include healthy people who visit in-hospital patients? What about people who have to go to hospitals for labwork or for physical therapy? Does it include the doctors, nurses, techs, admins, and custodial workers who spend dozens of hours each week in the hospital?

The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936.

What constitutes an iatrogenic death, in this example? Does it cover anyone who happens to die in a hospital, or does it specify only those who die from infections/complications arising from being in a hospital?

Understand that I don't necessarily dispute your underlying point, but this article provides insufficient (and insufficiently clear) documentation to support your case.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Which is why it is so suspect.
Edited on Thu Feb-23-06 09:53 AM by HuckleB
The article has a clear agenda, with no context. Even those with serious concern about the health care system (and that includes me) need to look deeper and more seriously than to site such fear-based sites.
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BuddhaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. GREAT article!
Thanks so much for posting it.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. What about NO diagnosis
I was badly hurt in an industrial accident. 15 years later I'm still disabled and on heavy pain killers. No breaks, no tears, but lots of pain and instability in joints. No diagnosis.

At least my doctors have been honest in saying that they have no idea what's going on. And they've been great about trying physical therapy and drug options that might help. To be honest, it's been the Insurance companies that have been the bigger problem, not the doctors.

But it's freaky that after 15 years doctors still haven't been able to diagnose what's going on.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. Blind trust of physicians is a bad habit
Most people fail to understand the "awful truth" that all healing arts are inherently imperfect. It explains why medicine is called an art -- although medicine is based on scientific reasoning, the human body is a complex system that can't be dealt with like an automobile or a computer.

Between the popular press and half a gazillion medical-issues advertising and P.R. outfits, it can be maddening to try to figure out what's healthy and what's harmful. They can have you believing that diabetes is a minor annoyance, soda with aspartame is more poisonous that arsenic, that food is medicine, medicine is poison, and poison is healthy. They'll have you taking pills you don't need and scared of pills you do need. Someone is always making money on fear, uncertainty, and doubt, and if you're like most people, you're not so much a Patient as a Market.

Reading up on medical subjects, and having good social relationships with one or more medical professionals who can help you understand the more esoteric stuff, is the best way of becoming an informed "health-care consumer". You don't even have to study all that much, or develop a PhD level of comprehension -- even getting an overall view of how physicians and other healers think will help you tremendously in your own decisions.

The same principles apply if you decide to check out unorthodox methods, although the alt-med field is a thicket of cutting-edge science, hygienic practices, out-and-out fraud, delusion, and deception, and some long-neglected good-sense ideas. You will also find that many people here at DU oppose unorthodox medicine with a rare vehemence and anger. For some of them, it's their own way of bucking the crowd, but a few have actually been hurt by quacks, just as others have been hurt by orthodox physicians. The best approach is to study up as much as is practical, and deal with all medical treatment with the attitude of an experimenter.

There will always be a certain level of risk in medical treatment; it is impossible to avoid. Sometimes, when the health problem is pressing, you just have to make your best decision, cross your fingers, and take the leap. But when you do it with confidence in your physician, your studying, and your ability to judge risks, you won't have as much of the distrust you may feel reading the random story in The Weekly World Wanker about medical errors.

What gives me the "authority" to say this? I have no authority at all. This is my own health issue advocacy, because I've often felt alone, stupid, and threatened by medical problems I didn't understand. I learned through trial-and-error experience (more error than trial) about the virtue of self-education. I was severely ill when I was a teenager, and the after-effects of the illnesses and treatments have followed me into adulthood. I made it a point to read, ask questions, pester physicians ... to seek education before medication. I also tried a lot of unorthodox medical treatments -- most didn't work at all, a few did, and I learned that medicine is medicine, whether it's practiced by an MD or a shaman or by buying a bottle of vitamins. Learning how your body and medicine works isn't all that difficult, and the outcome is inevitably beneficial.

But don't take my word for it, or the word of any other self-appointed expert -- ask around. Check it out for yourself. Do a "gut-check" -- and a fact-check. You're the Boss.

If you live your life so that you maximize your health and happiness without becoming perfectionistic about them, you'll probably be sick infrequently and enjoy most of your time here on Earth. Even if you do develop severe and/or chronic illnesses, your life won't revolve around them. And if you are the victim of a misdiagnosis, an incompetent, or a quack, you'll at least be able to deal with it that much more quickly and effectively.

Get revenge on all the bastards -- be happy!

--p!
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BuddhaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. exactly!
"But don't take my word for it, or the word of any other self-appointed expert -- ask around. Check it out for yourself. Do a "gut-check" -- and a fact-check. You're the Boss."

I agree. I like taking control of my health - whether it be western medicine, which I rarely do - or alternative medicine, which I lean towards much more often, as it works for me! :-)
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. perspective
I have a daughter that was basically misdiagnosed and hurt by conventional medicine (endocrinologist and ENT physicians). Really we were "lucky" that a really severe reaction to Cipro her senior year in college left her health compromised enough to try some way out things that made no logical sense as to why they would work but what the heck?????? Acupuncture certainly helped the numerous sinus infections that had been treated by antibiotics. We had to find a doctor that would prescribe thyroid medication when it was her T3 only levels that were low (most doctors won't even check that). But the most helpful for what I can best describe as multiple chemical sensitivity was Nambudripad Allergy Elimination Technique. Now, there is NO WAY that 99.9% of MDs could diagnose an "energetic allergy" because they have no knowledge of it. So she wouldn't even be in the 20% of misdiagnosed. Her reaction was so good with NAET that I had it done too, and to save expense learned it myself (though without formal training other than Touch for Health to learn applied kinesiology).

Just saying that there are some really far out sounding things out there, that people like my family try in desperation, and they work out so well that we are changed forever. There are a few MDs that practice NAET, but most MDs and in fact most people have never heard of it. It and like techniques are pretty huge in the underground medical system that is developing around issues like Gulf War Syndrome, Lyme Disease, autism, ADD, and MCS, for which conventional medicine has no answers and with some not even a diagnosis. A lot of people think this is quackish but I certainly know better. Like everything else, unfortunately it doesn't always work. I have a *lot* of success stories in my family, even when I do it. LOL!! The more I get into all this stuff, the more I just throw up my hands and say, "Oh I'll try that" even if something sounds weird. I have hundreds of hours of experience with all this stuff, if not thousands. It is pretty remarkable that there are any results at all. And there are.

My daughter now lives away from here in Seattle. She found her primary care doctor by calling Erchonia Laser and asking who had a device in that city. Consequently her primary care doctor is both a chiropractor and an ND who went to the acclaimed four year Bastyr University, and is covered by insurance. When she had a few emotional issues he sent her to a couple--husband does traditional PhD in psychology type stuff while the wife works on her energy fields with her hands (non touch). She is on a very tight budget but manages to save up and go to them every couple of months. If she hadn't gone this route she would be on SSRIs and labeled psychosomatic.

Now, if you have something that medical doctors can treat, like a urinary tract infection or a cancerous lesion on the skin, it is a good idea to go to them--although I think the ND in Washington State can prescribe medications.
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Ciggies and coffee Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 12:17 AM
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24. Well that cant be true, aren't they supposed to be know-it-all gods? n/t
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
26. This was probably the article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/22/business/22leonhardt.html?_r=1&incamp=article_popular_2&oref=slogin

Alas, more piss poor science "journalism." The author compares doctors to pilots, saying doctors "don't go down with the plane" to intimate that doctors don't care whether or not their patients recover and live healthy lives. The author further argues that doctors have no incentive to do their jobs right because there is no economic incentive to cure someone. Is this journalism or capitalist propaganda?

WTF? Doctors have no incentive? How ridiculous can one journalist get?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
29. Interestingly, a lot of people don't want docs to discuss prevention...
Even here at DU. They want to keep all the information to themselves, but docs are supposed to know exactly what's going on in every case right away.

Ugh. Something is wrong with this picture. We are pushing blame on one corner, while ignoring the lack of focus and blurry background.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2126726&mesg_id=2126726
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. I don't feel confident anymore either.
But, y'know, Aleut Shamans are just *SO* hard to find in this neighbourhood, and Dr. Weil's booked up solid with talk show appearences....

So I rely on my poor doctor who's never heard of Kevin Trudeau...
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
36. This article stinks of...
"mainstream doctors are bad, go so some alternative medicine snake-oil salesmen." Pathetic.
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FM Arouet666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
37. Your right
Edited on Tue Apr-04-06 03:13 AM by FM Arouet666
Dump the 80% success rate, diagnose yourself, doctors are just interested in the money. What ever pays the most is what you will be diagnosed with. Screw the meds, herbs are much better. Who needs all those medical studies, ancient wisdom is superior. Poison I tell you, that is what big pharma is pushing, keep the masses sick to perpetuate a need for medical care. Greed greed greed......

Oh wait, the LSD is wearing off, what is that you were saying........
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