"Seventy percent of doctors do not get a flu shot."

[polichick]

After giving up mammograms (since my only risk factor for breast cancer is the mammogram itself), I started thinking about other routine health measures. Now that it's time for flu shots, I'm wondering whether that's something to give up too.

This article is really interesting ~ especially so if it's true that "seventy percent of doctors do not get a flu shot."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller27.html

What do you think?

[Trajan]

1. Lew Rockwell is a bit of a nut ...

I dont get them, and I usually get the flu ...

I have heard anecdotes of those who get sick as soon as they get the shot, or get the flu anyways .... I have also heard anecdotes from those who get the shot and DONT get the flu ....

Go figure ...

[polichick]

9. I don't seem to get the flu whether I have a shot or not, but I don't like the idea of...

...unecessary mercury exposure (especially for my kids) ~ and the stuff about vit. D is pretty compelling.

Pharmaceuticals is such big business in the U.S. ~ sometimes it's hard to separate the hype from the truth.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

12. well, it is actually Donald Miller, MD

who wrote the article, it is just on Lew's website

yes, Lew can be nutty

but this makes sense to me

[depakid]

16. Donald W. Miller, Jr. is an even bigger nutter and conspiracy theorist

than Lew.

Along with the vitamin cure all approach, he's an anti-vaccination and anti-floridation crusader, with ZERO credibility in the scientific community.

[Th1onein]

102. My mom got GBV right after getting the flu shot.

And she died of it.

[dana_b]

110. omg!

I'm so sorry.

[jwirr]

2. My daughter is a nurse and she does not get a flu shot because she

is around people who have flu all the time - she believes she becomes immune after a time. My sister taught in kindergarten for years and she said the same thing happens to teachers.

[polichick]

14. That makes sense to me!

[Indiana_Dem]

28. Yeah, I've been a nurse on a Med/Surg floor for 11 years and have never had a flu shot before.

I believe in that theory. I haven't had the flu since I was in 3rd grade. I'm 44. Why screw up a good thing. If it's not broken don't fix it. Now if I get some terminal disease or chronic condition where it would be detrimental if I caught the flu then I might consider it but not until then.

[aquart]

34. Well, I did get flu. Almost every other year.

And the last time I got it, I was sick for three hacking, hawking months because it went straight into my chest.

So now I take the nasty shot, my arm aches for three days and swells with a big giant hive, and I don't get sick.

[Indiana_Dem]

62. In your case I might try it. eom

[uppityperson]

106. I'm a nurse and always get a flu shot. Only way to "become immune" without is to get it every yr.

Since the virus mutates, you must get it every yr and every time it mutates to "become immune". Simply put, you "become immune" once you have it.

I have several teacher friends who call public school "the infectitorium" and they get sick from those cute kids all the time. They get flu shots to be able to avoid some of the strains.

[DJ13]

3. Flu shot vaccines are a crap shoot

They are often based on a past flu virus that will be so mutated by the time the shots are administered the effectiveness isnt very high.

My wife works in a hotel that has a large number of European and Japanese tourists, and the flu shots here in the US rarely do any good against their versions of the virus so we dont get the shots.

[still_one]

24. That is true, it depends which strains they choose /nt

[graywarrior]

4. Never got them, never will

Have never ever had the flu.....ever. I don't even get a cold.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

6. Knock on wood.....

[polichick]

20. Great immune system!

[graywarrior]

29. Macro diet.

No dairy, no flour.

[polichick]

32. I don't do dairy or flour either - though I don't really call it anything...

...just feel best without them. Also skipped red meat for 23 years, but have a little now and then these days.

I'll have to read up on macro and see if that's about what I do.

[graywarrior]

35. Whenver I have had a piece of toast or a rice cake, my joints kill me

Therefore, I stick with what works for me. I used to be so macro I was a pain in the ass to people. Now I just eat what makes me feel healthy and that, for me, means no dairy, no flour, no meat and no sugar.

[polichick]

47. "Now I just eat what makes me feel healthy" - Seems like the best plan...

Some staples I swear by are organic apple cider vinegar, lemon juice and ground flaxseed.

It's fun to experiment with really simple things!

[Demeter]

68. You Didn't Free the Duck!

and you promised! Obama won!

[graywarrior]

71. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7632541

[Demeter]

82. Grumble

By then, there may not be any reason to free the duck. The economy will have destroyed us all.

[graywarrior]

83. Then we can all have duck soup

[Demeter]

84. I HATE Czernina !

[OhioChick]

5. Interesting.

I think the fact that 70% of doctors do not get flu shots speaks volumes.

I got a flu shot years ago.....came down with FMS weeks later. Coincidence? Who knows. :shrug: Since then, I refuse to get another.

I found this quote to be of interest:

"Almost all the ACIP members who make these recommendations have financial ties to the vaccine industry."

[polichick]

15. Yeah, that line caught my eye too...

Unfortunately the profit motive is a HUGE RISK FACTOR when it comes to medical decisions in the U.S.

[Warpy]

87. It seems a lot of them think the way I do

and that it's counterproductive to give young, healthy adults flu shots since the occasional two weeks of sheer hell is what builds their immune systems for the long haul.

Even with a serious chronic illness, I didn't start to get them yearly until my job demanded it. Now I'm old with a serious chronic illness and you bet your butt I get them.

I've never had a doc who pushed them, by the way. I've always had to ask for them outside work.

[Skittles]

7. the only risk for breast cancer is the mammogram itself?

are you nuts?

[polichick]

13. I'm talking about myself - on the usual list of risk factors, the only one that applies...

...to me is the radiation in the mammogram itself. (Unless you add simply having breasts to the list, which some people might.)

Having no other risk factors, I choose not to expose myself to mammography.

[pnwmom]

19. Unfortunately, millions of women with no risk factors

get breast cancer every year.

You could consider just getting one less often than other women, rather than giving them up altogether. Or asking your doctor about an ultrasound, if that would make you feel safer.

[polichick]

36. I would definitely speak with my doctor if I noticed anything in a self-check...

...wonder why they don't use ultrasounds more often for that.

[pnwmom]

52. Someone told me that in Japan they use ultrasounds

for the initial check -- followed by a mammogram if they find something suspicious. If that's true, I'd like that.

[polichick]

57. I'd like that better too - thanks for the idea!

[pnwmom]

73. Good luck if you ever ask for that. You'll need a flexible doctor. n/t

[Skittles]

25. most women who get breast cancer thad NO RISK FACTORS

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[polichick]

30. imo the biggest "risk factor" is believing it will happen...

...but I lean more toward Eastern mind/body/spirit thinking than American pill-popping thinking.

[Skittles]

37. the biggest risk factor is having boobs

[polichick]

42. Sure, like the biggest risk factor for heart attacks is having a heart...

...and the biggest risk factor for brain cancer is having a brain.

I'll pass on the unnecessary radiation ~ I don't even stand near a microwave.

[Skittles]

53. hope that works out for you

it sure didn't for my nature loving coworker

[polichick]

56. But how many people get cancer simply from being overexposed to radiation?

[emilyg]

70. I had no risk factors. Was in good health ..

thank God I got a mammogram. Cancer was found early.

[polichick]

94. I'm glad it was found early - and hope you're enjoying good health now...

This article sums up the concerns I have about mammography ~ though I've had it done several times, it seems counterintuitive for women to subject themselves to either the radiation or the compression. Just found this article, but I've had similar thoughts for years.

http://www.westonaprice.org/women/mammography.html

[LeftyMom]

101. You're linking to a website devoted to the quack dietary theories of a dead dentist.

FWIW, the first published study about mammography was published 20 years after the man died, and the people running the foundation now are (dubious) nutritionists. In other words, nobody at the WAP knows jack shit about cancer detection or the specific risks and benefits of mammography based on your risk factors or lack thereof, and if they give any advice on it other than "see a specialist in this field" they're being ethically irresponsible.

PS What are the qualifications of the article's author? Normally there's a blurb like "Bob Smith is chair of the radiology department at Jones Memorial Hospital" or "Suzy Sunbeam is a specialist in reiki healing at the Sunbeam Chakra Realignment Center and Biodiesel Filling Station of Santa Cruz, CA" but I don't see any such thing for this article. As a general rule, one should probably avoid medical advice coming from people with no qualifications.

[cloudbase]

8. Hard to argue with doctors

[polichick]

18. They also drink TONS of soda - definitely not the most health conscious people I know. lol

[OhioChick]

22. My Grandmother told me that

Long ago when she had trouble losing weight, her doctor suggested smoking.

[salvorhardin]

10. The author of that article, Donald W. Miller, is a denialist crank

About a year and a half back he wrote a rather infamous condemnation of the peer review process, or at least that's what it appeared to be on the surface. It wasn't after wading neck deep into it though that the reader found out it was really a platform for Miller's global warming and HIV-AIDS denialism. Respectful Insolence did a nice fisking of Miller back then:

Yes, global warming denialism and HIV/AIDS denialism (coupled with the oft-repeated cry of "martyrdom!" from Peter Duesberg, yet!) are what Dr. Miller is about. (Hint to Dr. Miller: Citing Christine Maggiore and Peter Duesberg is not a particularly good way to bolster the credibility of your arguments.) Other "unassailable paradigms" that Miller lists are not quite as ridiculous as his examples of AIDS and global warming, but they're mostly strawmen; for example, the claim that "cholesterol and saturated fats cause coronary artery disease" is actually not quite what medical science states; rather it is that cholesterol and saturated fats are major factors, among others, that contribute to the pathogenesis of coronary artery disease. Using these examples does not exactly bolster Miller's credibility or case, either. Miller then goes on tear about how science is in service of the state, pulling out more HIV/AIDS denialism idiocy coupled with some rather blatant conspiracy-mongering ...

Does this remind you of anything? Perhaps of the conspiracy theorist who recently argued with a straight face that the reason there would never be any cure for cancer is because the "vested interests" of the medical industry and government would not allow it, as such a cure would "devastate" the medical economy? It sure sounds like the same fallacious argument applied to AIDS, which is why I ask you to repeat after me: This is all a load of crap. The evidence that HIV causes AIDS is exceedingly strong and has not been seriously challenged, not by Duesberg, and certainly not by any of Dr. Miller's HIV "dissident" tracts published at the execrable LewRockwell.com, where Miller routinely spews HIV/AIDS denialism (playing the Galileo Gambit yet, but with Copernicus!), global warming denialism, anti-fluoridation rants, and antivaccination posturings worthy of the mercury militia. These views alone show that Dr. Miller's critical thinking skills leave much to be desired, and this lack of critical thinking is very apparent in his article.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/05/cranks_against_peer_review_1.php

[cosmik debris]

27. Isn't it interesting

That people who don't trust doctors will believe a doctor who says something scary.

Some times all you can do is to mourn the loss of critical thinking in this forum

[polichick]

33. Actually, the info about vitamin D seems lost on you - try some critical thinking. :)

[cosmik debris]

38. You're making that shit up

I said nothing about vitamin D.

[polichick]

40. It's the most interesting part of the article.

[cosmik debris]

41. To you maybe.

To me the most interesting part is the lack of references for critical statistics.

I find it interesting that a real doctor could think he would get away with that.

[polichick]

43. Like I said, just try a little critical thinking...

When do people get the flu? When they are exposed to plenty of vit. D from the sun, or when they're not??

[cosmik debris]

46. That's so ridiculously illogical that I can't imagine a response.

Sorry, but that is just mind numbingly stupid.

[polichick]

48. Just giving you a little exercise in critical thinking - sorry you didn't get it.

[cosmik debris]

49. We get more flu around Christmas time than the 4th of July

Proving that we need more patriotic holidays and fewer religious holidays.

:eyes:

[trotsky]

51. The flu is also much more common when we are roasting turkeys.

I propose we ban turkey.

[cosmik debris]

55. We need to ban all religious related holidays.

Only patriotic holidays will keep us from the flu epidemic.

I know because I'm a critical thinker!

:)

[polichick]

58. You'd both be lousy detectives! :)

[trotsky]

72. No worse than you! n/t

[trotsky]

50. What you stated was the complete opposite of critical thinking.

You are confusing correlation with causation. Don't worry, it happens a lot in this forum.

[polichick]

54. Lol - you seem confused. I'm not talking about "causation" at all...

But the correlation of plenty of vitamin D from the sun with a lack of flu shows a possible natural preventative. (Not hard to figure out actually.)

[cosmik debris]

59. Duh!

The correlation of patriotic holidays with a lack of flu shows a similar possibility.

And it has equal logical credibility.

[trotsky]

60. Yes, you really are.

Since you don't even understand that you're doing it, there really isn't any further point in correcting you.

[cosmik debris]

61. Since there is no flu in the tropics where there is a lot of sunshine

And where people spend a lot of time out doors, she must be right.

Oh Wait. H5N1--Bird Flu originated in the tropics.

Never mind.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[trotsky]

64. D'oh!

Too funny.

[cosmik debris]

65. Those birds don't have any patriotic holidays.

That's the problem!

[trotsky]

63. By the way...

Does Winter Cause The Flu?
Microbiologists Discover Reason Why The Flu Virus Thrives In Winter

January 1, 2008 — Virologists investigating transmission of the flu virus found that it is more likely to spread at colder temperatures. The dry, cold conditions pull moisture out of droplets released by coughs and sneezes, which allows the virus to linger in the air. Additionally, cold, low humidity air dries out the nasal passages and makes virus transmission more likely. This contradicts the long-held view that the flu spreads because the immune system is less active during the winter.

More...

[uppityperson]

107. Plus people are crowded inside around each other, easy to spread viruses then.

Best thing to do is stay away from people, stay out of public areas. Go out and listen for people doing that hack hack hack "bronchitis" cough, often the aftermath of influenza and spreading viruses.

[varkam]

75. Or, it could be completely meaningless - hence, correlation does not equal causation. eom

[aquart]

31. "fisking" ?

[salvorhardin]

77. It's blogger slang for a point-by-point dismantling of someone's argument

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisking

[cosmik debris]

11. Made up facts do not impress me. n/t

[InvisibleTouch]

17. That was a very interesting read.

Something that's free (sunlight) may be as or more effective than something that generates big bucks (flu shot), without the potential harmful side effects. But the dollar-generating option is the one that's promoted. We see this pattern over and over again. Somehow I'm not surprised.

[polichick]

23. "We see this pattern over and over again." Yep - that profit motive makes me...

...think about everything medical way more than once these days!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

39. Best way to think o all this is

that this is "illness treatment" not health promotion

[polichick]

44. Agreed, that is the way to think of it...

I'm really big into health promotion through diet, exercise, even thoughts ~ so where does the flu shot fit in?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

45. well, if they could assure me the

strain in the shot was the one I was facing, and I had other health issues which could make it fatal...

[LeftishBrit]

78. Are these alternatives? Why not all of them?

The flu jab (like diet and exercise) is one way of prevention - not treatment - of illness.

The only certain way to not get the flu is to avoid exposure, but that is usually impracticable, so anything that stimulates immunity to it is a good thing.

I am not messianic about flu jabs; in fact, I only get them if a big epidemic is predicted - but I disagree that building up health through diet and exercise is somehow incompatible with using medical treatments and preventions.

[still_one]

21. The best chance against disease is either prevention or early detection, and I question

that 70% of doctors do NOT get a flu shot. All of the medical people I deal with not only get the vaccine, but get it early then is available to the public

You don't believe in science, that is your right

It is all a question of risk verses reward

If you believe the risk of vaccination or mammograms are not worth the risk, don't do it

[polichick]

26. Wish it was simple, but pharmaceuticals is BIG business in the U.S...

...with enormous amounts of money spent lobbying both politicians and physicians.

It's obscene how the doctors in my own family are wooed by the pharmaceutical companies. I've learned to question everything.

[RoyGBiv]

66. Source? "70% of doctors do not get a flu shot"

Oh, it's Donald W. Miller who is the source, the same person who wrote the article and the same person who cites no actual study nor even an informal survey from which to derive this percentage.

So, we can pretty much discount that as meaningless. Seventy percent of which doctors? All doctors? Doctors he knows, doctors he's heard of, people with PhDs in parapsychology? Doctors who showed up at his basement meeting of cranks who somehow have maintained their licenses?

It's interesting. I ran a search of databses of every peer-reviewed medical and scientific publication I could find going back to 1997, including an entire database of alternative medicine journals, and I did not see Donald Miller's name once. Of course, I suppose this could just be part of the conspiracy, or maybe the databases were intentionally programmed to ignore searches for "Donald Miller." Damn those evil medical professionals and peer-review scam artists anyway ...

What I did find was the kernel of truth upon which Miller and others of his ilk base their fanciful, illogical theories. Studies have shown the efficacy of combinations of massive doses of vitamin supplements in reducing (not eliminating) the severity and length of an influenza infection. They have studied and noted the role of vitamins and minerals in the spread and treatment have several diseases, including HIV and cancer. None have called them cures or preventatives in and of themselves. They have noted their *role* in a treatment regimen. To quote an abstract of a representative article that combines the results of various studies into one theory:

"The article reports on the beneficial effects of vitamins in the duration and severity of influenza. It is stated that the vitamins fights the flu by boosting the body's immune response and by accelerating healing. It is pointed out that influenza epidemic could be prevented by learning how to use vitamin supplements. The most important vitamins include ascorbic acid, vitamin D, niacin and thiamine."

A sampling of articles cited by this article:

Cannell JJ et al. Epidemic influenza and vitamin D. Epidemiology and Infection. 2006. Dec;134(6):1129-40. Click here for access to full text paper.

Tavera-Mendoza LE, White JH. Cell defenses and the sunshine vitamin. Scientific American, November 2007, 62-72.

Lappe JM et al. Vitamin D and calcium supplementation reduces cancer risk: results of a randomized trial. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Jun;85(6):1586-91.

Abbas S, et al. Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D and risk of postmenopausal breast cancer - results of a large case-control study. Carcinogenesis. 2008 Jan;29(1):93-9.

Freedman DM et al. Prospective study of serum vitamin D and cancer mortality in the United States. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2007. Nov 7;99(21):1594-602.

Kaiser JD et al. Micronutrient supplementation increases CD4 count in HIV-infected individuals on highly active antiretroviral therapy: A prospective, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial. Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes, 2006. 42(5), 523-528. "Micronutrient supplementation can significantly improve CD4 cell count reconstitution in HIV-infected patients…"

Murray MF. Niacin as a potential AIDS preventive factor. Medical Hypotheses, 1999. 53(5), 375-379.

Murray MF, Langan M, MacGregor RR. Increased plasma tryptophan in HIV-infected patients treated with pharmacologic doses of nicotinamide. Nutrition (NY), 2001. 17(7/8), 654-656.

Murray MF. Treatment of retrovirus induced derangements with niacin compounds. The Foundation for Innovative Therapies, Inc., USA, 2006. 9 p. US 7012086.

Pero RW. A method for increasing tryptophan and nicotinamide levels in vivo, and therapeutic and monitoring methods. Lynpete Trading 6 Pty., Ltd. Trading as Genetic Health Enterprises, S. Afr. PCT Int. Appl. 2008, 73pp. WO 2008008837 A2 20080117

Cathcart RF. Vitamin C, titrating to bowel tolerance, anascorbemia, and acute induced scurvy. Med Hypotheses. 1981 Nov;7(11):1359-76. Free access to full text paper at http://www.doctoryourself.com/titration.html See also: Cathcart RF. The third face of vitamin C. Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 7:4;197-200, 1993. Free access at http://www.orthomoleculartherapy.net/library/jom/1992/pdf/1992-v07n04-p197.pdf or http://www.doctoryourself.com/cathcart%5fthirdface.html Other Cathcart papers posted at www.orthomed.com and http://www.doctoryourself.com/biblio%5fcathcart.html.

Duconge J et al. Pharmacokinetics of vitamin C: insights into the oral and intravenous administration of ascorbate. PR Health Sciences Journal, 2008. 27:1, March.

Shoji, Shozo et al. Thiamine disulfide as a potent inhibitor of human immunodeficiency virus (type-1) production. Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications, 1994. 205(1), 967-75. "The results suggest that thiamine disulfide may be important for AIDS chemotherapy."

Wallace AE, Weeks WB. Thiamine treatment of chronic hepatitis B infection. American Journal of Gastroenterology, 2001. 96(3), 864-868.

If one peruses those articles, one will note a few things. This is not prevention. It is supplementary treatment. The doses required are massive and are only tolerated by the body during viral outbreaks and can in fact be extremely detrimental to normal body functioning if maintained during periods of no infection. Mr. Miller's "theory" about the effects of the sun or lack thereof are idiotic and in fact ignore the results of the actual scientifically controlled studies he cites himself. Also, if one wants to use the "big profit conspiracy theory" argument in this, take a look at the profits of the so-called alternative medicine industry, the vitamin supplement industry, etc., much of which is controlled by the very same people who are in charge of "Big Pharma."

OnEdit: For the sake of fairness, I should note that each of the studies that shows the role of vitamin supplements in fighting diseases has a countervailing study.

[polichick]

74. I chose the article to spur conversation about flu shots...

...which it very helpfully did ~ but I wouldn't mind trying extra vit. D to help fight the flu, just as people use vit. C to help with colds. Of course, countries all across the world have known for generations that there's a correlation between exposure to sunlight and a strong immune system, so it only makes sense that we might be more susceptible to colds and flu during the winter months.

That said, forget the flu shot ~ I'm booking a couple of winter trips to sunny Florida like I usually do and leaving it at that. :)

[RoyGBiv]

76. That correlation is not established ...

Many other factors are present that are involved in the equation.

[uppityperson]

108. Good luck being in a plane for hours with people coughing and hacking.

[Demeter]

67. I Have Gotten the Flu From a Woman Who Got The Flu Shot

They never have the right strains of virus in them.

[salvorhardin]

69. Never?

They never have the right strains of virus in them.

This past year the flu vaccine was the least effective it has been in ten years. Normally flu vaccinations are between 70% and 90% effective, but this past year only one out of the three components of the flu vaccine matched the most common strains of the flu virus in the wild and it was still 44% effective. Note that 44% is a lot higher than 0%, and this year was a fluke. In most years the flu vaccine is pretty damn effective.

April 17, 2008 -- This year's flu shot was only 44% effective, a new study suggests -- the least effective flu vaccine in a decade.

The findings come from a study of 616 Wisconsin residents who came down with flu-like illnesses during the peak of the flu season. Study findings appear in today's issue of the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

In good years, flu vaccines are 70% to 90% effective in preventing confirmed cases of flu bad enough to cause a person to seek medical attention. This year's vaccine appears to be the least effective since the 1997-1998 flu season, when the vaccine was about 50% effective.
http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20080417/flu-vaccine-worst-in-10-years

[LeftishBrit]

79. I wouldn't trust ANYTHING on the Lew Rockwell site

Rockwell is a former aide, and still a supporter, of Ron Paul. He may appeal to some here because he opposes the Bush government; but that's because he opposes ALL government. He is an arch-libertarian, who worships the Free Market and the Austrian School of Economics; just what we don't need in the present economic mess. I would question the motives or ideology of anyone who posts on his site.

I would agree that washing one's hands regularly is one of the best preventives against illness; and that most people don't get enough vitamin D. But I see no evidence that '70% of doctors don't get the flu shot'. In the UK, where most people in general don't get the flu jab(many do, but not most), health workers *are* expected to get it because they are at higher risk from their own exposure to patients, and because if they do get the flu, they can present a danger to vulnerable people. I don't know about America, but I would be surprised if 70% of doctors don't get it, and wonder who was involved in the survey.

[Dorian Gray]

93. Yeah

My friend who was a nurse at Cornell Presbyterian in NYC had to get the flu shot every year. It was required. I don't know about docs in private practice, but at hospitals, they all have to do it.

[FM Arouet666]

80. I think you should get a mammogram and a flu shot.

But I am not interested in arguing with you. Take your vitamin this or that or your supplements. Pray if you got em. Feng shui the mammogram and polish your crystals.

:banghead: :puke: Stop being ignorant!

I can't tell you how many times I have heard the line; "But doctor, I have no risk factors and no family history for breast cancer, how is it that I have cancer." ??????? Oh, just about every damn week, that is how often. But your an adult, make your own decisions. I hope you can live with them....... :puke:

[dropkickpa]

81. Funny, I work with MD's all day long, and they ALL got theirs

They must be a crazy exception.

[Orrex]

85. Apparently you work with all of the other 30%

Though you yourself might still be a crazy exception.

[dropkickpa]

86. Ah, that must be it

:crazy:

[semillama]

88. I got my flu shot. My wife didn't.

Guess who destroyed an area rug with copious amount of vomit last night?

(The area rug was old and I was looking for an excuse to get rid of it anyway).

We ended up going to the hospital at 1AM because she couldn't keep down fluids. Fortunately, she didn't need an IV fluid drip (she's pregnant, so that's why we went to the hospital to make sure it was only the flu).

Even more fortunately, I had my shot, and didn't come down with the flu as well, so I was able to take care of her.

Sometimes, you should get the flu shot for other people's sake.

[uppityperson]

89. Influenza is a respiratory disease, not gastro-intestinal.

I am sorry for her, and hope she feels better soon. Flu shot is for influenza, which is a resp disease. Typical symptoms are you feel achy, chills, for a couple days, then that gets better and you get a bit of a tickle in the throat that then leads to bronchitis coughing for a couple wks. People can get very sick during the initial phase, and can get pneumonia on top of the later phase. People can die from influenza.

But, throwing up and diarrhea are usually not influenza symptoms. There are other viruses that can cause that, or bacteria from food.

I hope you get a nice rug. And hope she feels better.

[cosmik debris]

90. A different opinion.

The common symptoms of the flu include:


Fever (usually high)
Headache
Muscle aches
Chills
Extreme tiredness
Dry cough
Runny nose may also occur but is more common in children than adults
Stomach symptoms, such as nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, may also occur but are more common in children than adults

http://www.flufacts.com/symptoms/default.aspx

Symptoms of Flu
Symptoms of flu include:

fever (usually high)
headache
extreme tiredness
dry cough
sore throat
runny or stuffy nose
muscle aches
Stomach symptoms, such as nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, also can occur but are more common in children than adults

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/keyfacts.htm

[uppityperson]

91. Thank you for the list. GI symptoms can occur, more common in kids.Guess pg women might be more susc

susceptible to it also?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

92. no flu shot, but would get a mammogram if I had insurance

but I don't have insurance, haven't had it for 5 years.

So the issue is moot. I don't qualify for help and can't afford doctor's bills.

[polichick]

95. Just to help us all decide (FUNNY!)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QznfG6oDDM

LOL

[trotsky]

96. Humor based on colossal ignorance just doesn't work. n/t

[polichick]

97. Do you own stock in flu shot manufacturers?

Those ingredients are actually used ~ the absurdity of it is not hard to see.

[trotsky]

98. Why the ad hom? Keep this about the facts.

Elemental mercury is not, and never has been in a vaccine. That is a blatant lie/distortion/piece of garbage. Formaldehyde is a natural byproduct of our metabolism. That means, it's already present in our bodies! We *MAKE* it! Ether and "detergent," if present, are there in such microscopic amounts as to be completely harmless. Why oh why does the anti-vax movement have to rely on lies and distortions?

Unsubstantiated, exaggerated garbage posing as humor is still garbage. But hey, getting your medical advice from a Canadian comedy show is a great plan! :thumbsup:

[polichick]

99. How awful to be so humorless - laughter is good for your health, ya know.

[trotsky]

100. Nice retreat.

Insult and bow out. Pleasure educating you.

[uppityperson]

105. bwahahahahahaha. You are tooooooooo funny!

The person you insulted doesn't have a sense of humor. Hahahahahahahaha!

[leftyladyfrommo]

103. I don't think Dr. Weil endorses flu shots for healthy adults.

That kind of surprised me. Yes for old people or weakened immune systems or infants.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

104. What about healthy adults in critical jobs?

What about healthy adults who are at high risk for exposure?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

109. This doctor and her husband (also an M.D.) do an alternative treatment.

M. Pearsall, “How Intravenous Vitamin C Protects from the Flu Without the Vaccine.”
Medical Journal – Houston, vol. 2, issue 10, December 2004, p12, Houston, TX.

HOUSTON - November 9, 2004-- The Longevity Centre of Houston is a leading alternative medical practice and anti-aging facility in Houston, Texas specializing in preventative health care.

Another year and again there are flu vaccine shortages. Contamination issues will prevent half of a major source of flu vaccines from being distributed to the United States. Many companies have stopped their employee vaccination programs and only places that provide vaccines to people whom are most susceptible to the flu will receive the vaccines this year.

In the United States, an estimated 35,000 people a year die from the flu because their bodies could not fight back. What do you do if you are not so healthy, or are a generally healthy person but cannot receive a flu shot to prevent any downtime that is associated with flu infection?

There is Flumist, the nasally instilled flu vaccine that contains a live flu virus. However, Flumist actually increases the incidence of headache, runny nose, sore throat, muscle aches and cough over doing nothing at all. These are the very symptoms you are trying to avoid by taking the flu vaccine. A significant number of people who receive Flumist will spread the virus to close family members (watch out, pregnant moms, very young children and the elderly, you are at higher risk). There are other options available to protect yourself without the flu shot, and the good news is that it will protect you from other ailments as well, not just a few specific flu strains. Last year’s flu vaccine lacked the strain that quickly spread to 24 states by December 6, 2003. This year, the flu is making an early appearance in Texas.

But there is no reason to panic about not having a flu shot or stress out waiting in long lines to get it. The best advice to prepare for the flu season is to make sure your immune system is strong. One of the ways to protect you from the associated illnesses of seasonal change is with good nutrition, nutritional supplementation and the use of intravenous (IV) Vitamin C infusions.

Vitamin C runs the immune system. It activates your immune system and responses to infection. It helps prevent and fight various viral and bacterial infections including colds and flu. While Vitamin C is helpful during an infection, don’t wait until infection hits. Prevention is the best medicine. Get treatment early to improve your immune system before you become exposed. Getting just one IV Vitamin C treatment per month can greatly boost your immune system.

Quantity, frequency and duration are the key to swift recovery. At the first sign of symptoms, get into the doctor’s office that day to get an infusion. Studies show that an infusion of Vitamin C can boost your immune cells within a few hours. If your symptoms are severe a second infusion should be administered the next day. We will try our best to work in anyone who is sick and in need of a Vitamin C treatment that day.

A Therapeutic Dose of Vitamin C is difficult to obtain orally. “Oral Vitamin C produces plasma concentrations that are tightly controlled. Only intravenous administration of Vitamin C produces high plasma and urine concentrations”1 At the proper levels, Vitamin C has anti-histamine, anti-toxin and anti-biotic properties. By taking Vitamin C intravenously, it bypasses the digestive system and goes directly to the body’s tissues via the blood. This is the best way to ensure you get the maximum amount of Vitamin C that your body needs. Intravenous use of Vitamin C provides a high dose that is not degraded by the digestive system and works directly on your immune system. As little as 3grams of Vitamin C taken orally can cause diarrhea.

Vitamin C infusions along with the use of a high-potency, pharmaceutical grade supplements that include vitamins, minerals, herbs, amino acids and powerful immune boosting antioxidants helpget your immune system in shape and provide you with the protection you need. Many don't realize that antioxidants have the capabilities to enhance the immune system, our body's true defense against disease and illness. Some antioxidants actually help Vitamin C enter the cells of your body. This is what will protect you during the flu season. Individuals who receive lipid exchanges to remove cholesterol from the cells have even greater absorption of Vitamin C into the cells.

# # #
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I have not been to this doctor to avoid the flu, but I have gotten a high dosage vitamin and mineral IV called a Myers cocktail.

the Doctors Pearsall - Their websites: www.infusion-clinic.com
www.longevityhouston.com

These people are NOT crackpots. They are both highly qualified and use alternative treatments that have been studied clinically and proven.

Hope this helps.

I don't trust Lew Rockwell.