Nonstick chemicals linked to infertility

[NOW tense]

By Janet Raloff

A provocative new study finds that women who have trouble getting pregnant are more likely to have high concentrations of certain nonstick-chemical pollutants circulating in their blood than are those who become pregnant within the first month of trying. The suspect compounds — generally known as PFOA and PFOS — are the original primary constituents of Teflon and Scotchguard products.

Since the potential toxicity of certain perfluorinated chemicals began to emerge about a decade ago, formulations of both commercial nonstick-product lines have been reengineered to avoid reliance on PFOA (perfluorooctanoic acid) and PFOS (perfluorooctane sulfonate). Nonetheless, plenty of both compounds still can be found in air, water and the bodies of people throughout the developed world. Indeed, babies are usually born carrying traces of both compounds — and their chemical kin — supplied by their moms’ blood.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/40518/title/Nonstick_chemicals_linked_to_infertility

[lynnertic]

1. Can we launch the class-action suit yet?

Teflon also kills birds. Such that, the Food Network had to switch from using nonstick pans in their cooking shows because the birds in their studios kept dropping dead.

IIRC Many years ago the makers of Teflon sued an avian breeders' organization to keep them from publishing warnings about their TOXIC cookware.

[customerserviceguy]

3. Umm, maybe I'm being a bit thick here

but why would birds have been in Food Network's studios in the first place? Unless, of course, they were to be the "guest of honor" and were already dead.

If Teflon kills birds, why wouldn't farmers have scarecrows made of it?

[lynnertic]

5. The studio is a warehouse-type building,

and the birds are there because you can't keep them out.

Birds can be found in CostCos and most warehouses I've been in. Just look up. I've seen Pigeons, blackbirds and other birds I can't identify.

(edited to correct grammar)

[Why Syzygy]

6. Just wondering out loud..

Without looking it up, hasn't Teflon had an industrial use? Satellite dishes or something? And there have been a few dead bird mysteries in cities, Austin being one of them.

[lynnertic]

12. Wow. Yes satellite dishes are coated with teflon

here's one
http://www.gatewaysatellites.com/shop/index.php?categoryID=1005&PHPSESSID=00979246be3ab87761066fc28631ca8e

[customerserviceguy]

8. And don't those warehouse stores sell Teflon-coated pans?

Sorry, without some evidence, this just sounds anecdotal. I've actually tried to do some Googling on this, and other than non-reviewed pet-fan pages, I've not found anything authoritative.

One such page: http://www.parrotparrot.com/birdhealth/teflon.htm actually lists a lot of supposed scientific references, I'm absolutely unable to pull a copy of any of them on the Internet. Since the Internet was developed as a way for scientists to share their studies in searchable form, this seems odd. One purports to be from 1969, I sincerely doubt that enough of these pans were out there at that time for anyone to suspect a correlation between bird deaths and Teflon.

[Why Syzygy]

9. You couldn't find this one?

http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/search?sortspec=relevance&author1=&fulltext=polytetrafluoroethylene&pubdate_year=&volume=&firstpage=

http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/search?sortspec=relevance&author1=&fulltext=teflon&pubdate_year=&volume=&firstpage=

Also:

http://theaviary.com/teflon.shtml

I know a lot of bird owners, and they would be very interested in keeping their companions alive. Anecdotally inclusive.

[customerserviceguy]

10. Thanks, I was able to find one abstract there

I really don't feel like shelling out fifteen bucks to read the full text of the other items that are linked.

Look, if you want to avoid having something in your home, by all means, do so. Some creatures are especially susceptible to things that others are immune to. It's well known that chocolate in a fairly ordinary quantity will have toxic effects on your dog. Nobody thinks that chocolate in such quantities is poisonous to humans. If I had a dog in my home, I'd keep the Hershey bars either out of the house, or damn good and locked up.

Similarly, we no longer give aspirin to children because of the possibility of developing Reyes syndrome if the child might have an undetected case of chicken pox. But in adults, aspirin is a lifesaver. Nobody's suggesting we ban it.

I spend a fair amount of time lurking on the Freeptard board, I enjoy knowing what the enemy is thinking. Very, very often, I see religion masquerading as thinking. It's either "God's will" that something happens, or evolution is called "Darwinism" so that any possible flaws in the life of Charles Darwin can be said to invalidate everything he wrote, etc. Over here, I often see the 'religion' of a heavy dislike, even a rabid hate, for many aspects of modern living. I really don't think the Luddites in our midst are doing us any more favors than the fundies are doing for the Freeptards over on their board.

[lynnertic]

13. Perhaps you're spending too much time at Free Republic - it seems to be rubbing off on you

...what with your very thinly veiled ad-hominem attack.

You were ignorant of a fact and when you couldn't find immediate satisfaction in Google you come back to say this

Over here, I often see the 'religion' of a heavy dislike, even a rabid hate, for many aspects of modern living. I really don't think the Luddites in our midst are doing us any more favors than the fundies are doing for the Freeptards over on their board.

Dude, was that aimed at me?

I suddenly feel like Obama trying to be bi-partisan.... like I'm wasting my time on you.

PS a well-seasoned cast-iron pot has a nonstick surface. Now, tell me I'm fullofit because you don't know how to care for one.

[customerserviceguy]

15. No, nothing was aimed at you

I did not call you a Luddite, I apologize if you feel I did. But there are certainly people here at DU who are accurately described by the term.

There is scientific evidence, and there is superstition. A lot of what goes around on the Internet that tries to resemble true scientific evidence is really just a bunch of made-up factoids that get circulated around enough times until 'everybody' knows it is true. If people didn't believe everything that they read on their computers, we'd have no need for Snopes.com, and you know just from your own email box how many people believe unsubstantiated crap just because it came to them from a computer.

I see all kinds of things here at Democratic Underground that appear to needlessly bash every type of food we eat, every type of electronic device that exists, every brand of medicine we use, and most ways of life that the majority of us consider normal everyday activities. Sometimes, as in the peanut butter cases, there's a really good reason to be alarmed, but I guess I don't recall the Teflon = bird death thing getting the same kind of press that the recent salmonella scares have had. Please forgive me for my doubts.

If a well-seasoned cast iron skillet works for you, great. I have a cast-iron grill pan that I frequently use, but maybe because of the texture of the surface, it's not terribly easy to clean. I do love it to grill meats and vegetables, and for other things, I use my Calphalon. So far, Theo the Cat has not seemed to mind. I suppose that if I found out, ancedotally or otherwise, that some sort of everyday behavior was potentially harmful to my lady's feline friend, I'd either research the heck out of it, or possibly refrain from the activity in the meantime.

Now, we have some supposed research that appears to link non-stick cookware with lowered fertility. I'm of the opinion that this bears closer scrutiny, maybe there is something amiss with the sample size, methodology, etc. Plus, it cannot be stressed enough, correlation is not causality.

Then, you chime in with the bird death thing, and offer a story (that I cannot find repeated in a reputable news site) about birds dying at Food Network. You've graciously provided a link to one abstract, and I thanked you for that. I accept the fact that many things are known by small groups of affected people long before the general public knows about them. But often that affectedness colors the way that those people accept things that are passed off as 'proof'.

Can you stop comparing me to a Repuke, just because I like to see what consternation we have wrought at Free Republic? Can't I enjoy our new President in my own way?

[lynnertic]

16. I forgive you for your doubts,

I apologize for taking your generalized criticism personally, and I promise that if I come across my teflon files I'll forward them along to you.

[customerserviceguy]

18. Thank you

I sure do hate to see it when little pissing matches arise between people of passionately held views that are really on the same team. I appreciate your graciousness in reading through my explanation.

I'll look forward to seeing the research on this, it's always good to evaluate studies for yourself, even if you're not a scientist. I guess I'm from the generation that championed the slogan, "Question Authority" and that includes folks in white lab coats!

[lynnertic]

11. The teflon releases noxious gasses when it's heated.

I'm presenting an anecdote but Teflon has been proven to be deadly to my satisfaction and apparently, also to the Food Network's satisfaction.

My info is old, mid-to late-nineties, and it was suppressed by corporate interests. I know it because I own a parrot and did the Whole New-Mom-Read-All-The-Science stuff when I got my bird. Unfortunately I don't have the resources to dig thru my decade-old archive (it's actually my weekend project to set up an indexed document archive for my saved articles so that I can consolidate my folders and shed some old hard drives) but what I can do is take a note, and find you if I come across something.

I'm not some hysterical chicken little, here. I'm a skeptic, I'm no dummy, and I've been convinced of the validity of the claim.

Sincerely,
Me.

[Why Syzygy]

14. More anecdotal and link...

Here's the digg on the Austin bird story:
http://digg.com/environment/Breaking_news_Downtown_Austin_shutdown_due_to_dead_birds

In 2002, I participated in a non-traditional, non-scientific 'experiment' to see if we could bring about rains in specific areas. The day I participated for my area, there were indeed rains. Not only that, the rains extended into central and southern parts of the state causing numerous deaths. That freaked me out. However, I did follow up investigations and found that the state had used the very same time frame to seed clouds in those areas. Their actions had led to the floods and loss of life. It was coincidence (?) that I had undertaken the endeavor at the exact same time.

I don't know how one would go about investigating if or how Teflon might have been involved in the dead bird incident.

I do know I'll be mentioning this to my bird owning friends. Most likely, they already know.

[lynnertic]

17. It is well worth reminding people that coincidence isn't necessarily causation.

I'll see what corroboration I can find for the Food Network story.

[NOW tense]

4. Were they canaries? n/t

[midnight]

2. I'm not a cook who uses all kinds of pots and pans.

I have always been leary of those teflon coating pans, and have mostly used cast iron for my cooking or stainless steel with cooper bottoms.

[Warpy]

7. I always hated Teflon

especially in frypans, where ordinary use generally heats it enough to produce nasty fumes and push chemicals into the food.

Cast iron should be used for most frying and nothing sticks to it when it's well seasoned. Rolled steel pans, again well seasoned, are great for crepes and omelets.

The best way to season all of it is to oil it up and stick it into the oven when you're baking something else.

[dropkickpa]

19. I LOVE my cast iron

Me and a friend actually had an hour long conversation about our cast-iron frying pans the other day, and we could have talked longer, but the kids interrupted us. My favorite egg pan is a 78 year old cast iron pan that is so well seasoned that scrambled eggs just slide on out. And you CANNOT make a proper pineapple upside-down cake without a cast-iron pan!

My other pots and pans are rolled steel and will last until I manage to mechanically destroy them, which I don't see happening ANY time soon as I even beat one pot off the concrete back steps once to get bowl unstuck from inside (suctioned in by water) and did nothing worse that a few scratches. The set is 20 years old and is my mom's old set.