I just saw a great response to the question "Why are you against Universal Health Care"

[YewNork]

It was on another bulletin board, the original poster said that he (or she) was against it because once the Government takes over the health care,
corruption, bad quality and inefficiency will occur everywhere.

The response was

"the government isn't going to "take over" health care any more than social security has "taken over" retirement savings.
There are private methods of retirement savings which operate alongside social security. IF a public health insurance option is established, the
private insurance companies are not simply going to throw up their hands, go out of business and disintegrate. They'll either be better than the
public option, in which case people who can afford to use them will use them, or the public option will be better in which case the private insurers
will do what they need to do to compete with the public option and make themselves as preferable (or better)."

My addition: When the old phone company monopolies suddenly had to deal with competition, they didn't all vanish. Yes, some did. And it's
possible that some insurance companies may not be able to compete with a public option. But every phone company wasn't destroyed, and
neither will every insurance company. If they're better, people will want to use them.

[Skink]

1. While we are at it we need a public option with the phone company...

Internet
electricity..



:hangover:

[YewNork]

2. You can live without Internet, even without electricity. You can't live without your health.

[chelsea0011]

4. But I'm not sure how long you can stay healthy without electricity

[prostomulgus]

3. I don't care what happens to the insurance companies.

The only thing that's important is that everyone has the same high quality healthcare. By "everyone" I mean all humans -- black or white, male or female, gay or straight, citizen or "undocumented". We all deserve the same health care.

This can only be achieved through a government-run, single-payer universal health care program.

[YewNork]

5. Undocumented people should not be covered. How many countries with universal systems cover them?

[prostomulgus]

8. We already provide health care to "undocumented" people.

It's just that we do it at hospital emergency rooms where it is most expensive and disruptive. Better to treat them at clinics and medical offices.

Besides, a person doesn't become less human just by crossing a river. Human rights are intrinsic to everyone everywhere. The fact that some countries don't uphold those rights is not an excuse for us to be inhumane as well.

We need to see that access to health care is a human right and treat it as such.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

10. Sorry I disagree. This isn't a legal question but an issue of

humanity. You know, that do unto others...thingy that was written about in some book? Golden Rule? Bible? You recall anything about that?

Every person deserves good health care. Period. No one should be turned away, no one should have to face bankruptcy, no one should die because they couldn't get treatment or meds. No matter their legal status they should be treated. I don't know how you could expect to turn away a person for any reason from help.

Did you watch Sicko - our people, American heroes who are sick after working in the "clean" air surrounding Ground Zero after 9/11 weren't getting the meds and treatment they so desperately need. Michael Moore actually tried to get them treatment at Gitmo because the prisoners have better health care than what the Americans were getting. They were turned away from American held Gitmo but the Cuban government took in our patients (illegal aliens one and all), preformed all manner of tests and exams, treated them and then gave them the Rxs needed for treatment.

Don't mix the two issues - one is an immigration concern but providing health care is a humanity issue. We need to be the people who are bigger and better and kinder than what the last eight years have made us under the GOP.

[patrice]

6. Right on! This is exactly what will happen. Private insurance will have to improve because of real

competition.

I also think of a Public Health Program as defining what it means to be American.

Who ARE we? WHAT to we actually share that makes our fate as a nation OUR fate?

Answer, NOT much.

To create a basic set of conditions that ALL citizens have access to, health, education, Justice, and economic opportunity, will NOT prevent economic enterprise from adding to and enhancing those basic American Rights and it

WILL END those savage inequalities that do literally, concretely, and PAINFULLY TEAR AT THE VERY FABRIC OF OUR BEING AS A NATION.

[cdsilv]

9. I think we do need to consider what will happen to private insurance.....

...because they are ensuring that the pols are considering it.

Part of what is freaking out private insurers is the coming move of a significant portion of the baby boomers from private insurance to medicare.

That is motivating them to seek 'mandated insurance' to replace this loss of customers.

I don't want to see alot of the 'rank and file' workers at private insurance co's tossed into the street as a result of healthcare reform, nor do I want to see the execs of these co's fattened by a 'mandate'.

Threading this needle will take alot of finesse, and I think Obama is at least trying to do it in a way that minimizes the impact on the middle class. I don't know whether Congress is going to let him 'gore the Ox' of the insurance execs.

I do think the end result should be single payer, but it may take years to get there from here....

[patrice]

11. Certainly there must be options for those who are displaced in PI to be bought out, retrain, or

transfer to the new national health program (not like jobs in IT which just disappeared to other countries with a big hand from everyone else).

What we have now is Socialism for Insurance companies. we need to balance that situation out and in the process build something called America, by ending the dog-eat-dog system that's killing a lot of people, providing less that appropriate Health Care at a top dollar price, and aggravating the sorts of things that contribute systemically to talk of SECESSION.

[YewNork]

12. You raise a good point - as the boomers go to Medicare the private insurers lose them

[90-percent]

7. Buggy Whips

I say let the FOR PROFIT healthcare insurance go the way of the buggy whip industry. Change or die, you greedy mother fuckers!

Since Reagan, pols are just fine with doing all they can to destroy the American Manufacturing Base. Millions of hard working people were told all they have to do is retrain for the new info jobs and they would be fine. Thirty years later even the info jobs are having the bottom fall out.

If pols were so dispassionate about this happening, why do they even give a rat's ass about a health care industry that is at least DOUBLE THE COST of all other health care in all other advanced countries? (USA = 12.9% GDP. Europe = 6% average for their health care)

This anti-manufacturing and anti-blue collar worker bias was magnificently exemplified recently in the debate about the auto bailout. Banksters get blank checks in the trillions no questions asked, and the big three had to grovel and get humiliated by Congress to get financial help. The amount of help the banksters got was about 1,000% more that the auto makers! And the pols managed to get in some magnificent union busting in the deal!

The giant sucking sound we've heard the last thirty years is the complete dismantling of America's manufacturing base. And we have the declining standard of living and obscene concentration of wealth to show for it.

I'm going to go out and try to find some American made torches and pitchforks now. I have the feeling I'm going to be needing them soon.

-90% Jimmy

PS - the one good thing about the auto biz is that ROGER PENSKE is buying Saturn. This man is a successful businessman and race team owner FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS! Roger seems to be in it because he loves cars, people, auto racing and the art of sound and excellent corporate management. Roger is no bankster weasel!