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[kjackson227]

[Ian David]

1. Not as scary as you make it sound. And no, they did NOT release a "Pandemic Virus."

Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 briefing note 6

<snip>

Also in Europe, some manufacturers have conducted advance studies using a so-called “mock-up” vaccine. Mock-up vaccines contain an active ingredient for an influenza virus that has not circulated recently in human populations and thus mimics the novelty of a pandemic virus. Such advance studies can greatly expedite regulatory approval.

More:
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/notes/h1n1_safety_vaccines_20090805/en/index.html


The source you cited is not a legitimate source.

They are lying to you about pretty much everything.

[Horse with no Name]

3. Anti-vaccine woo-woo shit

They have an entire cadre of followers here.

[Ian David]

4. The anti-vaxers are dangerous fucking idiots. I hope they get the flu and die. Oh, wait....

... if they get the flu and die, they'll just swear with their dying breath that the virus was in the MMR vaccine they got as kids.

Fuck.

Well, they can die anyway.

[seabeyond]

16. talk about idiot.... nt

[kirby]

5. It sounds pretty scary to me...

Basically, it allows the drug makers to use us as guinea pigs and bypass certain regulatory approval processes by adding these various other strains to 'test' against something that is not in the population.

[Ian David]

7. You'd better go run out and re-align your chakras then. n/t

[kirby]

9. It doesnt bother you..

That basically there is a loophole that is being exploited to bypass the regulatory process? Why bother having the regulations then?

[Ian David]

12. The flu virus mutates every year. You want a vaccine that works, you NEED this shortcut.

Would you rather they test it on monkeys and cute little bunnies for a couple years?

[kirby]

24. It is a matter of risk...

People, like me, are willing to take a vaccination because it outweighs the cost of contracting the virus. It is a balancing act as to whether the risk is worth it. There are side-effects and consequences to a vaccine. However, when they start adding virus/vaccines that are not related to anything in the wild, the risk balance becomes skewed. Now someone might have a side-effect or consequence unrelated to the strains that are in the wild. That bothers me.

[Ian David]

27. You mean in the people who volunteered? n/t

[MineralMan]

17. Go read the actual WHO document, please.

You're operating on the false information provided by Dr. Mercola. Spare us. Read. Learn.

Or, buy lots of Dr. Mercola's fine products. They won't help, but they'll make you think you're doing something.

[kjackson227]

8. This is the heading of the article, I didn't make anything up...

[MineralMan]

10. Apparently, you didn't bother to read even what was on

the good Dr. Mercola's page, either, much less the actual information from WHO. If you had, you'd have learned that no influenza virus was ever released. Spare us from this anti-vaccine garbage, please. You're spreading FUD with this post. Please don't do that.

Oh, and don't forget to buy Dr. Mercola's products. They'll save you from the flu...fer shure.

Feh!

[Ian David]

13. Isn't Mercola another name for fetus-poop? n/t

[MineralMan]

18. I don't know. I only know about Dr. Mercola, the quack...

Maybe it's duck poop.

[kjackson227]

19. People can make up their own minds, I'm not trying to peddle anything...

and you can't tell me what I can, and cannot post here.

[Ian David]

15. You didn't make it up. The woo-woo snakeoil guy you cited did. Stop reading Dr. Mercola's crap. n/t

[kjackson227]

22. Instead of attacking, why don't you explain to me why this guy is a quack???

[MineralMan]

28. See this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

He's a quack. He's a political conservative. He's a Bible-banger. Don't pay attention to charlatans, and please don't post their lies on DU. Thank you very much!

[Ian David]

32. If you could reason with anti-vaxers, there wouldn't BE anti-vaxers.

And if the flu pandemic this year is as bad as they say it might be, if we're really lucky, we might not have to reason with them for much longer.

And good riddance to bad rubbish.

But I bet the ones at the top of the snake-oil food chain will get vaccinations for themselves while they laugh at all their loyal followers dying.

Dr. Mercola will be vaccinated. I'd bet on that.

[MineralMan]

2. And be sure to buy Dr. Mercola's products, too....

He knows what's good for you, not the World Health Organization. Yes, he does. Buy lots of his products, and you just know you can trust Dr. Mercola's every word. :sarcasm:

[pinto]

6. They're not releasing live *virus*. They're releasing (testing) mock up *vaccines*. BIG difference.

from the European Medicines Agency:

EMEA pandemic influenza preparedness

Influenza vaccines
In the event of an outbreak of pandemic influenza, vaccines would be essential to protect the public against the disease. Normal flu vaccines, which are designed to protect against seasonal flu, are not intended to be used during a flu pandemic. Instead, special pandemic flu vaccines are developed to build up some protection against the pandemic virus in people who have not yet been exposed to it.

Until the pandemic starts, however, the strain of flu virus that will be involved is not known. Therefore, pandemic flu vaccines can only be prepared once a pandemic has started and the strain of flu virus responsible is identified.

Two types of vaccine have been developed to deal with possible future pandemics: mock-up vaccines and pre-pandemic vaccines.

Mock-up vaccines contain a strain of the influenza virus that has been specifically chosen because the population has never been exposed to it. During a pandemic, the World Health Organization formally identifies the virus strain causing the pandemic, and makes it available for vaccines to be developed. Companies are then able to use this official strain to prepare a strain suitable for fighting the pandemic that can replace the original strain in the ‘mock-up’ vaccine. Because the company has already carried out studies on the mock-up vaccine, it can predict how people will react to the vaccine when the strain causing the pandemic is included. This will shorten the time for a new vaccine to be made available to prevent the spread of the pandemic.

Pre-pandemic vaccines are intended for use before a pandemic to protect against a strain of flu that is expected to cause a future pandemic. The pre-pandemic vaccines currently available contain the influenza virus type A/H5N1 (‘bird flu’) because health experts expect this strain to cause the next influenza pandemic.

In contrast, seasonal vaccines contain virus strains that cause seasonal influenza and not pandemic influenza. Each year, the World Health Organization (WHO) makes recommendations on which flu strains should be included in vaccines for the upcoming flu season.

Pandemic influenza vaccines centrally authorised in the EU
Click on the name of each medicine in the table below to review its European public assessment report (EPAR).

<more at>

http://www.emea.europa.eu/htms/human/pandemicinfluenza/vaccines.htm

[blondeatlast]

11. Hey, Dr. M. told me to stop taking insulin, why shouldn't I listen to him over the likes of

the WHO and the EMEA?

[MineralMan]

14. How dare you confront the anti-vaccers? How dare you post

actual facts, rather than the scary lies they want you to believe? :sarcasm:

[blondeatlast]

20. Let's see, according to Dr. M, taking insulin condemns me to an early grave.

But is it an earlier grave than not taking insulin?

This lifelong IDD doubts it. The guy's a quackeroonie and then some; he doesn't even understand medical terminology himself. What a fuggin' loon.

[mike_c]

21. oh for pete's sake, the ignorance, it burns....

In the first place, there is absolutely no a priori reason to believe that using a properly made vaccine for a novel or rare influenza introduces anything but immunity into the test population-- detecting the resultant antibodies provides vital information used to test vaccine efficacy, general vaccination strategies, etc. The alternative is doing the real thing blind, every time. Not something that I'd want public health officials to consider best practice.

Second, why would one assume something conspiratorial about this? It makes sense to gather data like this. No one in their right mind would deliberately infect people with a live and virulent swine flu variant. If anyone did THAT, I would think that international crimes against humanity treaties would apply.

Third, it's Mercola. The internet sure beats peer review for pseudoscience!

[MineralMan]

23. Dr. Mercola, a Doctor of Osteopathy, has this disclaimer

on his website:

Contact us to discuss your situation and how the Natural Health Center can help you. Please note, Dr. Mercola no longer sees patients.

I wonder why that is...really...does anyone know?

[mike_c]

25. dispensing quackery via the intertubes is more lucrative and less...

...challenging than selling snake oil in person, maybe?

[MineralMan]

26. I found this tidbit on the Wikipedia

entry on Dr. Mercola:

"Mercola has received two warnings from the FDA for marketing nutritional products in a manner which violated the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.<4><5> A 2006 BusinessWeek editorial criticized Mercola's marketing practices as "relying on slick promotion, clever use of information, and scare tactics."

There's lots more fun stuff there. He's a quack, and a conservative activist, to boot. Feh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

[Ian David]

30. We should start posting anti-vax propoganda on Free Republic.

Convince them that vaccination is a liberal plot.

[kjackson227]

31. Oh, no! Sorry, but I hadn't heard of the guy before now. Sorry.

[MineralMan]

34. It's worth checking on people before posting their nonsense

here on DU. If you don't check, others will. There's a Wikipedia entry on just about everyone who you might quote here. Lots of people lie. Lots of people stretch the truth. Being careful to check your sources is worth doing, since it will prevent what has happened on this thread.

Had you looked Dr. Mercola up on Wikipedia, you wouldn't have quoted his misrepresentation of the WHO memo.

[Ian David]

29. Probably a condition of his home confinement. n/t

[mzteris]

33. OMG - MERCOLA?!?!

He's one of the biggest quacks on the internet. A classic scare-mongering snake-oil seller . . .