Study: Vegan Diets Healthier For Planet, People Than Meat Diets

[HuckleB]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=41660

" The food that people eat is just as important as what kind of cars they drive when it comes to creating the greenhouse-gas emissions that many scientists have linked to global warming, according to a report accepted for publication in the journal Earth Interactions.

Both the burning of fossil fuels during food production and non-carbon dioxide emissions associated with livestock and animal waste contribute to the problem, the University of Chicago's Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin wrote in the report.

The average American diet requires the production of an extra ton and a half of carbon dioxide-equivalent, in the form of actual carbon dioxide as well as methane and other greenhouse gases compared to a strictly vegetarian diet, according to Eshel and Martin. And with Earth Day approaching on April 22, cutting down on just a few eggs or hamburgers each week is an easy way to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions, they said. "We neither make a value judgment nor do we make a categorical statement," said Eshel, an Assistant Professor in Geophysical Sciences.

"We say that however close you can be to a vegan diet and further from the mean American diet, the better you are for the planet. It doesn't have to be all the way to the extreme end of vegan. If you simply cut down from two burgers a week to one, you've already made a substantial difference."

..."



Interesting, I suppose. Still, I don't think it offers much information, when one is comparing an "average" American diet to a vegan diet, and nothing else. Comparing extremes offers a chance to yak and little else, in my opinion.

[beam me up scottie]

1. !

:popcorn:

Veggie popcorn, anyone?

[Orrex]

13. In terms of fertilizer, a bushel of corn takes the equivalent

of about 1/2 to 1/3 a gallon of gas to grow.

An all-vegan population is great as an ideal, but unless we can provide food for the masses without relying on petroleum-based fertilizers, we're only disguising the problem, IMO.

[silverweb]

2. Good article.

Those of us who are vegetarians of any stripe are hardly surprised, but the more this gets into mainstream consciousness the better!

[Warpy]

3. You're right about that. It's like comparing the energy

used by an SUV driver to that to a guy on a bicycle. It's really an unfair comparison.

Actually, people can greatly reduce the amount of energy that goes to produce their food if they simply learn to COOK and stop using all that processed junk. Some people crave meat and seem to need it in their diets and actually don't feel particularly well if they try to forgo it. The way to leave a smaller footprint is to buy the raw meat, cut up fresh veggies, and cook the whole business.

I'm the opposite, don't like meat, don't feel well when I eat it. However, I've learned how to cook well enough to avoid being a junk food vegetarian, giving the freezer section at the food co-op a miss except for my beloved Boca Burgers. Junk food vegetarians consume nearly as much energy as junk food meat eaters.

As for cutting down on the fast food burgers, gas prices are doing that one. I've seen more people carrying sack lunches to work these days that don't come from fast food joints. People can't afford to eat out.

[msgadget]

7. Great point, Warpy!

These days there's convenience food for everybody, the healthy and the just-don't-cares alike. Once ya go down that road it's hard to revert back to scratch cooking without a little incentive. Price isn't always that incentive because the worst for us (and best tasting) food is often the cheapest but I heard a program on NPR about energy consumption as related to our diets and it clicked for me anew how important all our choices are regarding dwindling resources and the environment.

What about frozen vegetables though? The fresh produce at the market has traveled and then hung around long enough for its already scant nutritional value to have disappeared.

[frankenforpres]

15. so true about the cost

fruit and vegetables that taste great are so much more than huge super market prices.


McDonalds is super cheap for the amount of cals you can get.


sure, you could get beans, rice tuna and make some crative budget meals, but most dont do that.

[beam me up scottie]

8. Boca burgers!!!

I just turned another non-vegetarian onto them. She's buying them for her kids now.

It's funny, I had been a veg-head for years when a non-vegetarian told me about them.

[shrike]

10. I'll have to try Boca Burgers

We're not vegetarians, but are looking to add a veggie meal or two per week as a way to save money. (Don't know if Boca Burgers fit into that category!)

I'm also making a concerted effort to cook at home; follow recipes, use herbs, garlic powders (though not natural garlic yet), make our dinners from scratch. Eating out is not only expensive and bad for you, it is boring. Food tastes better when you cook it at home.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Well, they're not exactly cheap.

But when you consider that they are loaded with protein and have almost no fat, it's worth the extra money.

I pay $2.99 for four patties and I think it's a bargain.

They also have Boca Crumbles which make excellent sloppy joes and nomeatloaf.

Give them a try, my god-sons love them.

[shrike]

12. That's not a lot

Cheaper than what you'd pay in a restaurant. Add a whole-grain bun and you'd be rockin'.

We're trying to add variety to our diets as well as save money, so this could be the ticket. Thanks for the tip.

[BonnieJW]

16. You have to be careful with soy

It can cause hypothyroidsm.

[Warpy]

17. Only if you eat it to the exclusion of all other foods

Honestly, they LIVE on soy products in Asia and their hypothyroidism isn't any worse than ours.

Alarmist headlines like that with NO ARTICLES and NO FACTS serve no one.

[politicat]

24. Thing with soy - has to be fermented.

Fermented soy is safe for those with thyroid issues. Unfermented is where the problems come in. Soy has an antitryptophan (an enzyme that destroys tryptophan in the gut), and without sufficient tryptophan, rest is light and restless, causing sleep deprivation, which contributes to thyroid problems and can mimic hypothyroidism. (This is why those with sleep apnea have problems losing weight and getting anything out of diets and exercise.)

This was documented in Postwar Germany, when soy was provided by the Allied reconstruction forces as a meat sub. Since the Germans didn't know to ferment the beans, they ended up having all sorts of digestive and endocrine problems, and for about 15 years, it was thought that Caucasians lacked the enzymatic balance to properly digest soy. Then someone figured it out in the late sixties, and ta-da! Textured Vegetable Protein was born. (I read about it in a book about the German Airlift, and followed the footnote. I remember Interlibrary loaning the books, but it's been a couple of years and my library does not maintain user records.)

However, people who are sensitive to tryptophan imbalances need to be careful with unfermented soy, and there are a lot of Caucasians who are sensitive, just as there are a lot of Asians who are lactose intolerant. And there's no way to really learn that you're sensitive to tryptophan imbalances except experimenting. Isn't evolution wonderful?

It's safe for most people to eat unfermented soy (tofu and tofu derivatives) 2-3 times a week. Some can get away with more, some can't tolerate that much. A vegetarian can make 24 complete meals with beans, nuts, whole grains, tempeh, seitan and soy and be fine. Lactovegetarians have it even easier.

[RebelOne]

47. Morningstar burgers are much better tasting, though I don't buy

them very much. But I always buy the sausage patties. They are delicous.

[bananas]

4. This has been known for decades.

Getting protein from animals is extremely wasteful of resources.

[Odin2005]

5. More likely it's because vegans are forced to watch thier diet carefully..

...in order to get the all their essential aminom acids and whatnot. It's the watching one's diet carefully that makes the diet healthier, not the fact there is no animal products. If us meat-eaters watched what we eat as much as vegans we would be a lot healthier as well.

[Warpy]

6. It used to be like that, but research has shown

that as long as all 8 essential amino acids are consumed during a 24 hour day, the body handles them just fine. We don't have to do that food combining stuff any more.

However, the foods we combine for the essential 8 amino acids just naturally go well together, like beans and rice, so we usually manage everything at one sitting.

Well, as long as we're not junk food vegetarians.

[BrklynLiberal]

20. Perhaps it is not being a vegetarian that makes one watch their diet more

carefully, but being someone who watches their diet more carefully that makes one a vegetarian. Just a thought.

[NMMNG]

9. Old news to me

:shrug:

[frankenforpres]

14. two burgers a week to one?

i dont generally eat burgers, but i eat a lot of beef/ chicken/ fish/ eggs/ milk

if you are serious about trying to gain muscle mass, animal protein is essential

i ride a motorcycle, and dont use much gas, ill call it a wash

[NMMNG]

18. "if you are serious about trying to gain muscle mass,

animal protein is essential"


Yes, you're right. No muscle mass on these vegans.


Vegan Bodybuilding




Vegan Bodybuilding and Fitness

[beam me up scottie]

19. BLAM !!!

There goes another myth.

:evilgrin:

[BrklynLiberal]

22. Yep. Lots of 90lb weaklings there!!!!

Vegetarian athletes: Carl Lewis, Edwin Moses, Hank Aaron, Jim Kaat, John Salley, Lawrence Phillips, Leroy Burrell, Lucy Stevens, Maartina Navratilova, Murray Rose, Pat Reeves, Robert Cheeke, Ruth Heidrich, Stan Price

[frankenforpres]

26. vegetarian is far different than vegan

milk and eggs are two of the best bodybuilding foods

[flvegan]

23. At least you saved me from putting up my own pic.

One doesn't need animal protein. Matter of fact, one does better without it.

[frankenforpres]

25. bcaa in soy

are not even close to those found in eggs

and those vegan guys look good for vegans, but they dont look that good. only one of them has serious size, and i imagine that guy uses aas

[flvegan]

33. 21% to 18% is "not even close" eh?

Right, they don't look that good. Whatever. Then most natural bodybuilders don't look that good. If you're looking for a vegan Ronnie Coleman or Lee Priest, it won't happen. Of course, those guys practically sweat deca, so they aren't the epitome of health, either.

[frankenforpres]

27. do you have a citation

for natural BBers doing better without animal protein?

[LeftyMom]

30. !

Oh god. You didn't just ask him that? Oh shit, you really did. :rofl:

[flvegan]

32. I have one that compares soy v. whey

Whey, of course, being the be-all end-all choice of animal proteins for bodybuilders.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson71.htm

[frankenforpres]

35. whey is not the "be-all end-all"

that is nice a straw man. just because it is highly marketed doesnt make it the be all end all.

[flvegan]

37. Don't know much about bodybuilding supplements, do you?

As that is the regular choice for supplemental protein. One can only choke down so much chicken and tuna.

[frankenforpres]

39. you would like to think

i dont know much about nutrition, then you could feel great in scoffing at me


"supplemental" protein, your words right? supplementing what? a diet that has chicken and fish and beef and eggs and milk. whey is not a main protein source except for kids who read 6 page ads for Nitro tech

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frankenforpres]

41. obvious ignorance?

your words: primamry source of supplemental protein.


define supplemental.

[flvegan]

42. Supplemental

meaning, in addition to the crap that the pros (and many non-pros) will cram down their throats to achieve that which they think they need to grow (food). Whey and eggs are the top two sources, with whey taking the edge.

[frankenforpres]

43. ok, so im confused

you just wrote that whey was a supplemental protein, which is what i originally said, and then you told me " i dont know anything about BB supplements" and "i should go to a gym"



that's cool though, i like the insults

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frankenforpres]

45. ive rewound

you wrote: Whey, of course, being the be-all end-all choice of animal proteins for bodybuilders


then you wrote it was supplemental, which one is it? primary(be all end all) or supplemental?

what is my ignorance? do most natural bodybuilders follow a vegan diet? are they simply ignorant? is everyone that disgrees with you?

my main point is this i start out with the goal of gaining lean mass, and then find ways to do that (without drugs). you start out (seemingly) with the supposition that the vegan diet is great and then find facts to support that.

[flvegan]

46. So have I.

You wrote: if you are serious about trying to gain muscle mass, animal protein is essential

No it isn't.

[frankenforpres]

36. the study he uses

has novices as the subject pool

jesus christ, if you google the article, the same site that has that article has others that show a placebo is as good as a post workout shake in novices (http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/re/msse/toc.00005768-200405001-00000.htm;jsessionid=EXG4qoPip2CgjSu2wmAif3Tr62lqFA6GmRR69fTGnuD3coq8UKNy!-642208954!-949856145!9001!-1?startIndex=181)


a study using novices and showing no difference between soy and X, is sort of irrelevant when a placebo performs as well. i blame BBcom for this more than you.


these studies are corrupted by a term i am sure you are familiar with "beginner gains"

it seems you start with the premise "veganism is the best" and then try and find facts that support that. who else does that?


i also looked at those "vegans with muscle" and mike mahler even says that if it werent for religious/ethical qualms, he would eat eggs and drink milk :

http://www.mikemahler.com/veg.html

"To be clear, I follow a vegan diet for ethical reasons not because I think that it is a superior diet. If I had access to organic raw milk and organic eggs in which I knew for sure that the cows and chickens were treated well, I would consume milk and eggs. In my mother's native home of India, cows are a sacred animal because of the milk that they provide. Milk and yogurt have been staples of the Indian diet for centuries and along with ghee are considerd very nutritious and great for well being, health, and strength. Perhaps, some day I will own a farm in Montana and take care of some cows and chickens ;-) Until then, I will avoid dairy and eggs and other forms of animal products."

[flvegan]

38. Mahler?

At no point do I see where he suggests that milk and eggs make for a superior diet. He just isn't promoting veganism as a superior diet. On top of that, who cares? Kenneth Williams wouldn't. We could go back and forth all day on this one.

What you stated also then suggests that whey and a placebo perform as well as one another then, too.

"Beginner gains" also depend largely on the body type and overall fitness/instruction of the folks in the study, so you can probably toss damn near every single one of them, then.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!!!

[Recursion]

28. Just because Monsanto shouldn't get the last say...

There are alternative views:
http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html

[LeftyMom]

29. Oh holy shit, you just quoted the Weston A Price foundation?

:rofl:

The people who swear that dietary cholesterol and saturated fat are good for you, and use a few studies about soy infant formula (which is GMO, not vegan and comprises the vast majority of an infant's diet) to conclude that adult comsumption of soy foods in any quantity is harmful?

Please. :rofl: Pull the other one.

-LM, vegan for almost four years, veggie for a bit before that and quite healthy.

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-358-the-meat-and-butter-diet.html (Note: this is not a pro-vegan source, but is still anti WAP foundation)

"Dr. Mercola and the Weston Price Foundation flood the internet with their saturated fat is good for you message. They produce articles with supposedly scientific references that either quote the same bunch of people (each other), ignore a ton of modern reputable research, or distort what was said in the study, claiming saturated fat is okay and not related to heart disease. They all use the same distorted logic that it is the consumption of trans fats that are responsible for heart attacks, not saturated fats. They didn’t inform the reader that the reason trans fats are bad is because they have been processed to saturate their carbon bonds so they behave in the body as saturated fats. Because trans fats are bad or worse, does not make saturated fats good. It is similar to the twisted logic of the Weston Price crowd who present the work of this dentist who traveled around the world showing that populations who did not eat processed foods had good teeth, to argue that because some of these cultures ate lots of animal products that must mean diets rich in animal products are good. Because processed foods, sugar, corn syrup and white flour are bad, does not make a diet high in animal products lifespan promoting. Weston Price used some very short-lived people as examples of good health, just because their teeth looked good. Fortunately, we know more today than we did in the early 1900’s. We know which foods contain the full spectrum of nutrients that resist aging and we know that the diseases that afflict modern civilization are not the consequence of aging; they are the consequence of nutritional ignorance. And we also know that saturated fat raises cholesterol and is an important cause of heart disease, but not the only cause. Too bad so much nutritional ignorance is promoted on the internet, in books and in the media, it only leads to more people being confused."

[NMMNG]

34. First of all, the OP wasn't from Monsanto or connected to them in any way

Second, lets ask about the agenda of the Weston A. Price Foundation. How about their funding, for example:

The main sources of support for the Weston A. Price Foundation are the dues and contributions of its members. The Foundation receives no funding from any government agency or private corporation. Although many of our members are farmers, the Foundation has no ties with the meat or dairy industry, nor with any organization promoting these industries.
http://www.westonaprice.org/funding.html

Methinks the lady doth protest too much. When you have to expend that much effort insisting that you are not tied to the meat or dairy industry, it is probably because you are tied to the meat and/or dairy industry. I wonder how many of the farmers who are members are meat/dairy farmers.


And what is the Weston A. Price Foundation pushing?

Specific goals include establishment of universal access to clean, certified raw milk and a ban on the use of soy formula for infants.

The Foundation seeks to establish a laboratory to test nutrient content of foods, particularly butter produced under various conditions; to conduct research into the "X Factor," discovered by Dr. Price; and to determine the effects of traditional preparation methods on nutrient content and availability in whole foods.
http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm

They want to serve up raw milk (which can kill people), ban soy formula and promote fat and cholesterol laden butter. But they're not connected to the dairy industry in any way.





I can see that they're an unbiased source for sure. :sarcasm:

[LeftyMom]

31. Regarding soy

Since it's come up several times on this thread, here's a little link refuting the Weston A. Price soy is evil bullshit.

http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

[BrklynLiberal]

48. Great article. Thanks for posting.

[unpossibles]

49. this makes sense if you look at how many resources it takes

to raise a cow. Eating a lot of meat is terribly wasteful, and we have been even more brainwashed by the cattle people than people were about smoking years ago. Who do you think has given us those delightful education materials all through school? Of course - the people who sell it.

I originally stopped eating meat for 2 reasons: I could not afford it, and I worked in a restaurant that made everything from scratch. After making chicken stock and sausage a few times from scratch, I no longer had a desire to eat it. I feel a lot better without it too.

On the other hand, I don't think there is anything wrong with eating meat - we are omnivores for the most part - but I also think we consume way too much of it to be healthy. As a nation, we eat meat every meal, sometimes several portions in each meal, and we wonder why we have health issues.

I like this article because it echoes how I feel about meat: you don't have to be a vegan (or even a vegetarian) to make a difference, but you should be aware of your diet and how it affects you and the planet, and that every little bit makes a difference.