"The Vita-Myth - Do supplements really do any good?"

[EvolveOrConvolve]

Vitamins—with their promise to bridge the gap between the nutrients our bodies need and those they get—have always seemed reassuringly simple: Just pop a multivitamin and let your body soak in those extra nutrients. But not any longer. During the past few years, study after study has raised doubts about what, if any, good vitamins actually do a body. They could even pose some real medical risks.

...

{r}esearch on a wide variety of patient populations and medical conditions has failed to find much evidence that multivitamins, the most commonly used of the lot, prevent major chronic diseases in healthy people. The most recent knock came this spring, when a study of more than 160,000 post-menopausal women, published in the Archives of Internal Medicine, found that the all-in-one pills did not prevent cancer, heart attacks, or strokes and did not reduce overall mortality.

...

Individual vitamins and minerals haven't fared much better under scientific scrutiny, with research debunking some of the reputed benefits of vitamin B6, calcium, niacin, and others. In 2006, the National Institutes of Health convened an independent panel of experts to evaluate the evidence that vitamins could prevent chronic disease. The scientists ultimately issued a report stating that studies "do not provide strong evidence for beneficial health-related effects of supplements taken singly, in pairs, or in combinations."

...

The news on antioxidants, the darlings of the vitamin menagerie, is even more troubling. These compounds, which include vitamins A, C, and E, selenium, beta carotene, and folate, fight free radicals, unstable compounds thought to damage cells and contribute to aging. But not only do antioxidant supplements fail to protect against heart disease, stroke, and cancer; they actually increase the risk of death, according to a 2007 analysis of research on more than 232,000 people, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, as well as other studies.

More at the link: http://www.slate.com/id/2240688/?yahoo=y

It's important to give vitamins the same scrutiny as prescription meds. Just because something is advertised as "natural" doesn't make it safe or effective.

[CoffeeCat]

1. Vitamins do make a difference for me...

I really can tell in my energy levels. I do believe that vitamins have benefits. Iron is essential
for women and I know it makes a difference if I take it. I'm sure B vitamins make a difference as well.

However, I can understand how cancer-fighting, bone-strengthening, anti-oxidant claims are bunk. Many claim
to increase eye health, fight disease, etc. Vitamins aren't magic. They aren't food.

I've always taken these claims with a grain of salt. However, I do know that taking a vitamin does help me with
my energy levels and general mood. I think iron is important.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

2. That's exactly it!

Although I'm an evil skeptic, I take Vitamin D supplements, and they really do help me, especially in the winter.

Some people, though, throw vitamins down their throats without thinking about the consequences - or that there even could be consequences.

[CoffeeCat]

7. How does vitamin D help you...

...in the winter?

Does it help with mood?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

8. I have a couple of anxiety orders

that are exacerbated by winder conditions and the fact that I work 60+ hours a week in an office without any windows. I'll often go weeks without seeing the sun, and the doc suggested vitamin D to see if it helped at all, and it has. I still don't like winters, but they've become bearable.

[Naturyl]

22. I'm also an evil skeptic

And I think the legitimate scientific evidence strongly supports D supplementation. I do 5000 IU per day.

I also take other supplements, but would not claim they are nearly as well-supported as D. I take them just in case there is anything to them, and often discontinue them when I find that there is not.

[Cleita]

3. My late husband's dietitian said that when our bodies are functioning

normally we usually excrete or get rid of extra nutrients that we don't need through our urine and bowels. So taking supplements is only necessary if you are missing some nutrients, otherwise your body will only store so much and then dump the rest. I have osteoporosis so I have to take calcium supplements to keep my bones from deteriorating further and to help regain bone loss in conjunction with medication I take for it. But if I don't need the calcium, it will just be considered a waste product for my body to get rid of. I'm not saying you shouldn't take any supplements, but what you take should be needed and don't take too much. Some electrolytes aren't dumped by the body and build up and could be toxic.

[Sanity Claws]

4. Two threads below this point to the necessity of Vitamin D supplements

Most people are not able to get sufficient D naturally. That's a good reason to supplement.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. You don't say?

On edit to add, conversely, I can eat at McDonalds 3x a day, 7 days a week and be none the worse.



Redox Rep. 2008;13(6):271-6.
Variations in C-reactive protein, plasma free radicals and fibrinogen values in patients with osteoarthritis treated with Pycnogenol.

Belcaro G, Cesarone MR, Errichi S, Zulli C, Errichi BM, Vinciguerra G, Ledda A, Di Renzo A, Stuard S, Dugall M, Pellegrini L, Gizzi G, Ippolito E, Ricci A, Cacchio M, Cipollone G, Ruffini I, Fano F, Hosoi M, Rohdewald P.

Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster, Münster, Germany.

In a previous, double-blind, placebo-controlled study we evaluated the efficacy of a 3-month treatment with Pycnogenol for 156 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee. Pycnogenol significantly decreased joint pain and improved joint function as evaluated using the WOMAC score and walking performance of patients on a treadmill. In this study, we further investigated the anti-inflammatory and antioxidant activity of Pycnogenol in a subset of the osteoarthritis patients presenting with elevated C-reactive protein (CRP) and plasma-free radicals.

Elevated CRP levels have been suggested to be associated with disease progression in osteoarthritis. In our study, 29 subjects of the Pycnogenol group and 26 patients in the placebo group showed CRP levels higher than 3 mg/l at baseline. Comparison of blood specimens drawn at baseline and after 3-month treatment showed that Pycnogenol significantly decreased plasma free radicals to 70.1% of baseline values.

Plasma CRP levels decreased from baseline 3.9 mg/l to 1.1 mg/l in the Pycnogenol group whereas the control group had initial values of 3.9 mg/l which decreased to 3.6 mg/l. The CRP decrease in the Pycnogenol was statistical significant as compared to the control group (P < 0.05). Fibrinogen levels were found to be lowered to 62.8% of initial values (P < 0.05) in response to Pycnogenol. No significant changes for plasma free radicals, CRP and fibrinogen were found in the placebo-treated group. The decrease of systemic inflammatory markers suggests that Pycnogenol may exert anti-inflammatory activity in osteoarthritic joints and patients did not present with other ailments or infections. The nature of the anti-inflammatory effects of Pycnogenol with regard to CRP warrants further investigation.

PMID: 19017467

[OHdem10]

6. Some do not absorb enough vitamins minerals etc from food.

To obtain the proper amount of a nutrient, often it requires
such large amounts or servings of food, some people simply
cannot eat that much.

Other people, especially older people do not absorb vitamins
and nutrients as well as when they were younger.

Some people are born with undetected malabsorption problems.
and live feeling tired and sometimes listless when certain
vitamins would solve their problem.

[Warpy]

9. If this were true, they'd present with things like beriberi and scurvy

The truth is that normal, healthy people who eat a varied diet don't need supplements. Some foods, like milk and white flour, already have the supplements in them to replace what is lost by processing and to supplement levels not obtained due to climate.

I only recommend supplements for adults who are on deficiency diets due to illness or weight loss and for people who are absolutely hooked on junk food and don't eat a varied enough diet to get what they need. It's also wise for pregnant women to take supplements, especially those high in folic acid, proven to help prevent neural tube disorders in the fetus.

Everybody else is just paying for expensive urine.

[astral]

21. I used to believe that, Warpy

but first-hand experience has shown me differently. Sure, if you can get good produce grown on non - mineral deficient soil, maybe. That that isn't happening here in the USA, and even organic produce can be mineral deficient. This problem was known way back in the 1930's and acknowledged by the US government.

Supplements include vitamins, minerals, herbs, and maybe other things. There are certain things that most of us are deficient in. The quality of supplements varies alot too, and when studies are done showing that they do or don't have an effect, there are many questions to ask, such as how long did they take them, how much, how did their diets vary, and what was the actual quality of the supplements they took -- oh, and how much regular exercise people got who were in the study. Without proper diet and exercise supplements won't make you well.

[grasswire]

10. I can only speak for myself...

...and those who live with me.

Since an ER doc recommended magnesium supplements to me, my life has dramatically changed through improved cardiac status. And since I started taking coQ10 on the recommendation of cardiologist Dr. Sinatra, things are even better. Vitamin D was a no-brainer. Of course I take it. Flax, yes. Omega 3, yes. Vitamin E, yes. Cinnamon, yes.

And for my family member with psoriasis, she gets turmeric, flax, and other things.

There's no difference between us taking supplements and our ancestors going out to dig roots and strip barks for medicinal purposes.

[Alongtheway]

11. Vitamins have been a big help for me

Supplementing my diet with minerals has stopped my nighttime
leg cramps in their tracks. When I don't supplement with
minerals, the cramps are back in a matter o a few days.

Supplementing with zinc and 5-HTP has calmed my ADD
substantially and noticeably, both for me and those around me.

Supplement with B vitamins, CoQ-10 and D-3 has made
significant impact on my immunity, mood, energy levels and
sense of wellbeing.

And, if I do say so myself, my skin is gorgeous and I have a
big, thick head of healthy hair, which is saying quite a bit
for someone over 50. I also have no significant health
problems and am on no prescription drugs whatsoever, which is
saying even more for someone over 50.

The trick is to buy standardized vitamins, or to purchase from
stores that test their vitamins, so you are assured of getting
what you're paying for, and to know why you're taking the
vitamins. A slapshot approach isn't very helpful.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

12. Anecdotal evidence doesn't really mean anything

The studies referenced in the OP do.

[HuckleB]

13. Indeed.

Alas, for far too many at DU, anecdotes are all that matters.

[Alongtheway]

14. Hmmm

How do you feel about fish oil? Are recommendations to take it entirely anecdotal? Or niacin? Or D-3?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

15. That's an impossible question to answer without more information

Who's making the recommendation? What information is the recommendation based upon? For what condition is the substance being recommended to cure/prevent/etc.? Is there clinical evidence that the supplement does what it claims to do?

If there is serious evidence that the supplement is helpful, then that's one thing, but anecdotes are not serious evidence.

[Alongtheway]

16. American Heart Association

And Mayo Clinic, among others.

I had links for you, but my browser crashed and I lost them, and I'm too lazy to look them up again.

A cardiologist was the first to tell me about D-3.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

17. Then you have good information on which to base your decision

Doctor's generally know what they're talking about.

However, if you were taking a supplement because a friend's cousin's wife said that it heals cancer, heart disease and priapism, then you would be making a mistake.

[Alongtheway]

18. I don't take anything w/o researching it

For example, COQ-10. I became interested in it 7-8 years ago because we have very bad heart disease in my family and I heard it was helpful for the ticker.

I spent weeks at Medscape, pouring through journals, etc., until I convinced myself that, yea, it might be helpful. I do it with all of them. I don't like pills, so I'm pretty careful about them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. I'm subject to depression (the sluggish dysthymia type), and

years ago I read about someone who treated these with magnesium, zinc, and B vitamins. I started taking them, and I don't notice an improvement, but I notice a deterioration when I DON'T take them. In other words, they keep me from sinking.

Vitamin D has definitely helped my immune system. I've had one major respiratory illness in two years. When I do feel something coming on, I take zinc tablets and go out for a meal of spicy Asian food. Most of the time, I can ward off the illness this way.

Interestingly, when I take zinc tablets to ward off cold/flu symptoms, I tolerate it just fine. If I take extra zinc at other times, it makes me nauseated.

There was a period about 25 years ago when I had gotten accustomed to all the OTC antihistamines available at the time and couldn't afford prescription drugs, so I took Vitamin C instead. It worked, but the amounts I had to take upset my stomach, so I was delighted when my brother told me about the OTC sprays like NasalChrom.

I think the first time my family noticed the effects of vitamins was with our dog. He survived distemper at the age of ten and was dragging around the house and generally acting like an old geezer dog, just not recovering for weeks until the vet prescribed a multivitamin for him. In a few days, he perked up and became his old self. My mom kept feeding him the vitamins, and he lived to be 17.

[bemildred]

20. Clearly, good nutrition is necessary to good health.

And clearly, supplements can be useful in that, depending on what else you happen to eat. But just as clearly the federal government is at best unreliable as a guide, and so are the medical professions, so you have to figure out what works for you by yourself. There is clearly a lot of expensive bullshit in the "health food" business, but that is true in the medical professions too, who sell placebos at very high prices, so you are on your own, good luck!

[Naturyl]

23. Yep, exactly.

"Skeptics" who are not equally skeptical of the supplement industry and conventional medicine aren't skeptics at all. Both are full of self-interest and misleading claims.