Stellar (?) body in northern sky?

[AllyCat]

While on vacation in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, we spent almost every clear, moonless night watching the stars and saw one rising in the north (sorry no compass...that's the best I can do) about 20 degrees from the horizon. To the naked eye, it looked like a plane as it flashed red and green. We finally got out a pair of low-powered binoculars and confirmed the flashing...but the star (?) never moved. It was in the same place, night after night.

The flashing was so brilliant, we started to wonder if it was the space station or something. It was over Lake Superior with no land in sight as far as the eye could see.

Anyone an astronomer who can explain what we might have seen? Could the flashing have had something to do with being low on the horizon or some effect of the water evaporating off the lake?

And no, we do not think it was a UFO :)

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Possibly a TV or communication satellite

They're geosynchronous, so they won't appear to move. They stay over the same place by design.

I'm not sure how to look up what's where, but I know a lot of amateur astronomers track satellites; they might have an on-line list of the geosynchronous satellites that you can consult.

Let us know what you find!

--p!

[AllyCat]

3. Never thought of that. All we "saw" were the moving ones

and it never occured to me that some might be geosynchronous.

As for the moving satellites...all we could think of was Homeland Security. There are so many of them! I know, satellites are used for lots of things, but one cannot help but wonder about how many might be spying...

[Dogmudgeon]

6. Spy Sats

There are a number of them, and amateurs almost always can determine which are which. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before Sky and Telescope is added to The Axis of Evil.

Spying by satellite, from what I hear, is a remarkably expensive way to waste satellite time. They have limited uses, and are mainly used to confirm "HumInt" or intelligence gathered by actual flesh-and-blood agents. I have heard that spy satellites are capable of taking a picture of an individual person from a geosynchronous position (23,000 miles up), but I suspect that's a myth calculated to induce fear in our enemies and keep the paranoid in line, too.

If the cameras did work that well, I'm sure we'd be doing extensive espionage on whether the Great Nude Beaches of Europe were being used to hide WMDs.

--p!

[AllyCat]

8. phffttt!

Thanks. I just blew my tea out my nose. :spray:

[whyverne]

25. If I can make out my deck on a free internet site

in a satellite pic, it wouldn't surprise me if they could see me if they wanted to.

[ewagner]

9. You'd be surprised

I checked out this site to track the space station and was surprised to find that so many of the moving objects I saw in the sky were actually the BOOSTER STAGE of rockets that put satellites into space.

This site might give you a clue as to what you saw...I really enjoy it.

http://www.heavens-above.com/

[Orsino]

29. If you looked north in the Northern Hemisphere...

...then you weren't looking at anything geosynchronous. From anywhere in the US, geosynchronous birds will be seen only in generally southern directions, as these satellites must hang more or less directly above the Equator.

[ewagner]

2. Don't know what you saw

but I lived on Lake Superior for 10 years and noticed that reflections off the lake and atmospheric phenomena over the lake made star-gazing interesting.

Could be a lot of things....:shrug:

[AllyCat]

4. Oh yeah, this was bright enough that it cast a reflection in the water

No other star seemed to do that. The star-gazing was incredible and we spent a ridiculous amount of time doing it. Hard to not watch the bats at the same time.

[leveymg]

5. Mars is at it's brightest in 30,000 years.

Has been rising with Venus in the West, but is much brighter.

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/mars_progress_030808.html

[AllyCat]

7. We had trees to the east and southeast so we missed Mars!

Would have been neat to see as I'd heard it was really bright right now. Maybe tonight we can get outside the city to see it.

Thanks for the interesting link!

[leveymg]

10. Mars will be visible through Halloween.

It's supposed to get even bigger as it sinks in the horizon. Look to the West at dusk - you'll see it.

[Orsino]

30. Mars can't appear due north, either.

As all the planets--and the Sun and Moon--do, it stays pretty close to the ecliptic. These days, it's not rising in the east until near midnight (it's nearly overhead when I'm walking the dogs at 6 a.m. Eastern).

It appears as a vaguely orange (and very bright) non-twinkling star.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

11. "[Mars] Has been rising with Venus in the West,..."

Yikes. I think you meant to say that Venus sets in the west. I mean, unless they're teaching creation astronomy where you are. And that's not Mars nearby; it's Jupiter.

For Wednesday, in the DC area:

Sun sets -- 7:18 p.m.
Jupiter sets -- 8:32 p.m.
Venus sets -- 8:55 p.m.
Mars sets -- 11:47 a.m. (i.e., noon)
Mars rises -- 9:57 p.m.
Saturn rises -- 3:06 a.m.

Source: the liberal WaPo.

[leveymg]

13. My bad. Wow, Jupiter is unusually bright too - just assumed it was

Venus.

Thanks for the time-table.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

14. Venus is the brighter of the two.

It's to the south and higher up at sunset than Jupiter. Jupiter is dimmer and to the north.

Mars set two minutes ago. It's just before noon as I post.

[leveymg]

15. So, when and where is the best time to see Big Mars? n/t

A neighbor of mine was quite excited about this a couple months ago, and showed me an article. Which, obviously, I didn't read very closely.

Help us out here.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

16. 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.

.

[Bill McBlueState]

20. That article is from 2003.

Mars is currently approaching its brightest since 2003. It rises in the east around 10 pm, while Venus sets in the west around 8.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

12. The space station

moves from (mostly) west to (mostly) east. I mean, it could be moving from the northwest to the southeast, for example. You see it only at sunrise or sunset. It is not lit up; what you see is the reflection of the sun off the station. It moves quite quickly, and there is no confusing it with anything else in the sky. It does not have flashing lights.

[paula777]

17. Check this out and click on the links for the unusual bright lights

AURORA ALERT! A coronal mass ejection (CME) is racing toward Earth and it could spark a severe geomagnetic storm when it arrives--perhaps tonight (Sept. 14th and 15th). People everywhere should be alert for auroras.

The CME, pictured above, was hurled into space on Sept. 13th by an X1-class explosion at sunspot 798. This remarkable 'spot has produced nine X-flares since Sept. 7th including a record-setting X17-monster. All by itself, sunspot 798 has made Sept. 2005 the most active month on the sun since March 1991.

During the Sept 13th explosion, Thomas Ashcraft of New Mexico heard a strong radio burst on his 22 MHz receiver: listen. The slowly undulating signal is a Type II solar radio burst, generated by a shock wave at the leading edge of the CME.

If this incoming CME does hit Earth's magnetic field as hard as forecasters expect, auroras could appear in places where they are seldom seen: California, Arizona, Texas and elsewhere. Stay tuned for updates.




http://www.spaceweather.com/

[ThoughtCriminal]

18. Questions - and some possible explanations

You say that it "rose" in the north, but later that it did not move. Did it rise and then become stationary? How long was it there?

A few things that I've seen that are similar in behavior:

Helicopters - can hover. But usually don't remain in the same place very long.

Approaching aircraft. I once lived in a place that was under a major air corridor. It was very common to see airplanes approaching from the horizon flying directly towards me. It fooled me more than once into thinking it was a bright rising planet (when from the east). Since they were flying towards me, there was no apparent movement, except for a slow rise even through binoculars. Only when it got close, many minutes later, did it become obvious.

Tethered balloon. I've seen these along the Mexican border in Arizona and New Mexico. They were radar balloons placed to detect drug smuggling aircraft. I don't know if they have anything like that up there.

[AllyCat]

19. My mistake...didn't rise...it appeared shortly after the sun set

We were looking straight out into Lake Superior with Canada not visible from the shores. It's like looking out into the ocean if you haven't been to the UP. No land in sight.

Since it was in the same place every night and we watched for hours, I have to assume this was something outside the realm of aircraft or balloons. I suppose it is possible it was a ship with something in the sky, but it didn't make sense that it was there every night for a week.

Maybe Canada put the radar there to stop Americans from crossing the border :D

[Emperor_Norton_II]

27. It didn't rise at all?

Didn't rise, didn't shift position for the however many hours you watched it?

No clue what it was, but a star would move across the sky as the night progressed, just like the sun and moon; it's an artifact of the Earth's rotation.

[AllyCat]

28. It appeared as did Ursa Maj., Cassiopeia, Sirius

It was just THERE when the sun went down. It probably moved some as did all the other stars, but we didn't stay out more than a few hours. There was nothing on the horizon to which we could compare its movement, probably giving the impression that it didn't move. All the other stars moved in relation to the trees overhead.

What I meant by "didn't move" is that if it was a ship, aircraft, or like most satellites, it didn't move over the course of a somewhat short period of time. An airplane moves visibly, even if it is on a trajectory that makes it look slower than other craft. Same with a ship. Satellites move quickly. This wasn't like that. It was reasonably stationary in the same place in the night sky, night after night.

Wish I could explain this better. Thanks for your patience.

[Up2Late]

21. Most likely it was an optical illusion. Were you near a harbor or...

...a ship channel?

Most likely it is one of three things:

1) Channel markers that are out at the horizon, they only look like they are in the sky, really, they are sitting on or near the ocean surface. Could also be a large ship or a drilling rig. I know for a fact that Ships and Channel markers have a Red and Green lights on them, drilling rigs I'm not as sure. (Red=Left=Port) (Green=Right=Starboard).

2) Same answer as 1, except that the Ship, channel markers, etc., are just beyond the visible horizon and you are seeing a atmospheric reflection. It's similar to the mirage reflection you see over hot pavement, but this type happens at the horizon. The Sun does the same thing when it sets over the Ocean. When you see the Sun disappear below the horizon, it is actually below the horizon and you are seeing the reflection/optical illusion of the Sun.

or 3) The flashing could just be because of dirty or poorly made optics, or just the normal atmospheric effect of a star near the horizon. If you look through poor optical quality glass, stars sometimes shimmer and if you look at a star near the horizon, the star my appear to flash or shimmer, because of all the heat rising off the land or the lake and because of all that extra atmosphere you are looking through.

[AllyCat]

24. Harbor--no; shipping channel--yes

The ships have to stay quite clear of the mainland out there as it is so shallow and shoals crop up out of nowhere. It is possible it was some kind of buoy. I'm familiar with the lights on ships and barge/tugs, but this wasn't like that. Not for 6 nights in a row.

Some kind of marker or buoy might be possible, but it sure seemed higher in the sky than that. But it is so dark out there, it was hard to tell where the water ended and the sky began! We tried to look out there during the day to see if there was some visible evidence of a buoy, but couldn't see it. That doesn't mean it wasn't there, and the light was just that much more visible (doing its job, actually).

We could certainly blame poor optics, but we could see it with our eyes too and the reflection on the water was just too much.

[Phoonzang]

22. I think seen that...

...over the years. I know what you're talking about. It's low on the northern horizon and flashes blue and green. I always just figured it was a star and that the flashing was caused by the atmosphere, seeing as how it's low on the horizon and the light has to pass through more air.
I don't know what star it is, but it's not an optical illusion or a reflection of something on the ground.

BTW, I'm in Houston.

[AllyCat]

23. Is it in the northern sky?

It could be a reflection, but it just seemed too high for that. But it's so dark out there, who would know where the reflection was?

[Phoonzang]

26. It was definately in the northern sky

This has made me curious. It's been years since I've seen it, but I'm going to go look for it again...