Any scientist here? Please comment on this?

[midnight]

A police lab tech says that any amount of Ambian cr found in the blood is impairing. Police Drug Recognition expert says person is alert, and able to talk and communicate clearly,and passes person for mental status test.

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. I'm sorry if the response I give isn't what you want to hear, but the

statements are consistent. The law is a blunt instrument and justice depends on the system.

[Warpy]

5. The test is also a blunt instrument

and tests nanograms of the substance per deciliter of blood as a positive reading. Unless the police department coughed up for a specific test showing a therapeutic dose in the blood stream, the cognitive test should outweigh the serum test.

This is worth trying to fight. Positive/negative drug screens are absolutely worthless except in determining whether an illegal substance has been ingested over the last week (or month, for pot).

[Fredda Weinberg]

8. False positives are real. Bad statutes can be fixed through

the process. Call it a fight if you must ... it's certainly a case.

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. I don't think I have enough Ambien in my system to make sense of your sentences!

Can you elaborate?

By the way, I am a scientist, but also an occasional Ambien user....doesn't effect me that way at all. But, each person's genetic make up can have subtle or drastic differences on how drugs are metabolized, and how we are each impacted by them. Dirty little secret the Pharma industry does NOT want people to realize! No medicine works well on everyone, nor does it impact us each the same way.

[kimmerspixelated]

10. If that was the only dirty little secret Big Pharma had

it would be one thing!

[TZ]

15. Oh yeah

Me and my coworkers sit and plot everyday how many babies we can kill this week!:sarcasm:
Shouldn't you be trolling the conspiracy room? Or the pseudoscience group? This place is for science not paranoid luddite types.

[TZ]

14. Umm its not a "secret" at all

If you are educated and scientifically aware. Unfortunately most people in this countries scientific knowledge is limited to the sky is blue and the grass is green. I've known that fact about genetics since college. Any medical professional knows this and will share it. This is information also distributed with any medication to some extent.
I hate this "secret" bullshit..Its only a secret because most people don't bother to learn this stuff.

[hlthe2b]

3. Unless the amount falls within the lab test's standard error...

or there is reason to suspect overt lab error, as stated previously, the law may be non-negotiable...

[midnight]

11. Tarnish On The 'Gold Standard':

Recent Problems In Forensic DNA Testing http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/0/6285f6867724e1e685257124006f9177

Most people believe it is virtually infallible — that it either produces the right result or no result. But this belief is difficult to square with recent news stories about errors in DNA testing. An extraordinary number of problems related to forensic DNA evidence have recently come to light. Consider, for example, the following:

[hlthe2b]

12. No laboratory nor individual test is infallible...

Thus, there is always a possibility of fighting a result in court...(if not a probability of winning)

[Jackpine Radical]

4. "ANY amount?" No.

All medicines have side effects. Sleep medicines may cause next day drowsiness, dizziness, headaches, lightheadedness, and difficulty with coordination.

From the manufacturer's website:

In controlled clinical trials of AMBIEN CR, the most commonly observed adverse effects were headache, somnolence (sleepiness), and dizziness.

You may find that these medicines make you sleepy during the day. How drowsy you feel depends upon how your body reacts to the medicine, which sleep medicine you are taking, and how large a dose your doctor has prescribed. Your doctor will work with you to find the dose of AMBIEN CR that is best for you.

To manage these side effects while you are taking this medicine:

* When you first start taking AMBIEN CR or any other sleep medicine, until you know whether the medicine will still have some carryover effect in you the next day, use extreme care while doing anything that requires complete alertness, such as driving a car, operating machinery, or piloting an aircraft.
* NEVER drink alcohol while you are being treated with AMBIEN CR or any sleep medicine. Alcohol can increase the side effects of AMBIEN CR or any other sleep medicine.
* Do not take any other medicines without asking your doctor first. This includes medicines you can buy without a prescription. Some medicines can cause drowsiness and are best avoided while taking AMBIEN CR.
* Always take the exact dose of AMBIEN CR prescribed by your doctor. Never change your dose without talking to your doctor first. Make sure that you swallow the tablet whole and do not divide it, crush it or chew it.
* In two clinical studies of patients with insomnia, a rebound effect (worsening of insomnia) was only observed on the first night after an abrupt discontinuation of AMBIEN CR. On the second night, there was no worsening of insomnia.

[midnight]

9. Jackpine you sound like a medical person who I posed this

question to. In fact they indicated that the clinical evaluation is taken over the lab evaluation.

[theoldman]

6. You get a DUI when you fail to pass a drug test.

It does not make any difference in how you react to a drug. The visual and verbal test is not conclusive.

[Dogtown]

7. The only false positive

I've ever heard of was an opiate test that was triggered by poppy seeds, which are not intoxicants.

There's been at least one lawsuit won on that count, with a hefty payout; the plaintiff had been denied a lucrative job based on the test.


The limits are supposed to be set at impairment levels and from what I've heard and witnessed those persons that are susceptible to Ambien's side-effects can be triggered at very low doses. Also, the drug can be extremely disabling at normal doses. It's a very risky drug.

[Tesha]

13. Any statement that includes "any amount" is meaningless.

It is quite likely that if you tested drinking water
with a sufficiently sensitive assay that you could
find traces of most of the pharmaceuticals being given
to humans and animals today including Ambien. We
probably contain similar amounts.

The law may have been written in a naive way but here's
your chance to change it if you will/can.

Of course, if you really *DID* have a near-therapeutic
dose in your blood, well then...

Tesha

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. The police lab test fails basic chemistry.

There are no impairing drugs, only imparing concentrations of drugs.

If you want a legal comment instead of a scientific one, you'll have to look somewhere else.