Biologist/Obama Supporter PZ Myers to Obama: Just Say No To RFK, Jr As Head of EPA

[stopbush]

"More worrisome is the idea that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. could get a prominent appointment. Orac has torn that one apart, and I agree: we do not need another irrational purveyor of woo and fluffy substanceless hysteria contributing to this country's administration."

PZ links to Orac's article:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/11/say_it_aint_so_barack_say_you_aint_serio.php

[villager]

1. scientists, it turns out, can be as reflexively rigid as the anti-science crowd...

n/t

[laconicsax]

2. Yeah...who would think that they disregard causal pseudo-science just because it doesn't hold up to

close scrutiny.

:eyes:

[amdezurik]

6. seriously, what aspects or

psuedo-science does he push? I have heard him do some political interviews so they may not have come up and I would like more then that guys rant to go on :)

[stopbush]

9. Did you bother to read the article at the link?

[amdezurik]

11. so are you a denier of global climate change too?

because that is a key item of that rant.

[stopbush]

14. That "key item" you refer to in this longish article is limited to the following sentence:

"RFK, Jr's tendency to play fast and loose with science goes beyond mercury in vaccines and into the very area where he claims expertise, the environment, where he blames Katrina on global warming, for instance (not even Al Gore does that)."

That's it. You call that "key?" Give me a break.

[amdezurik]

5. he seems to have a real hard-on

about the vaccine thing...

[villager]

16. self-proclaimed scientists stuck on stuck, pronouncing what, or who, is "right" for the rest of us..

n/t

[trotsky]

19. Yeah, those arrogant assholes.

Relying on things like "facts" and "evidence" to make conclusions. RFK Jr. shows you don't need either - just grand conspiracy theories and appeals to emotion!

I swear, the anti-science/anti-intellectualism on DU sometimes rivals that found on FR.

[villager]

21. Notice how none of these tirades -- each claiming not to be a tirade --

isn't actually sourced, etc.?

It's all hearsay, passed along by one self appointed guardian of the faith to another.

"Trotsky," indeed.

[trotsky]

22. Notice how every single instance of anti-science or anti-intellectualism...

contains not one iota of fact to support it, only insults and arrogance.

[villager]

24. "Trotsky," you're full of it. You have no real idea what my stance on science is

But I know that you are reflexively against RFK Jr.'s nomination to an environmental post -- and he'd be fantastic in that position - for reasons that even you can't clearly cite.

You alleged "scientists" -- full of your insistence on "the facts" (as you understand them) -- have your marching orders according to whatever whisper campaign you're listening to.

You are every bit as superstitious as the people you presume to denounce.

Which is something the real Trostsky began to see through, which is why Stalin came after him.

[trotsky]

28. Bwah ha ha ha.

You want to shut me up? Show that I'm really one of the brainwashed robots with "marching orders"?

Read the criticisms of Kennedy's pseudo-science, and address them here. Show that he didn't really quote-mine, or misrepresent statements, or fail to state conflicts of interest for those supposedly bolstering his case.

Put up or shut up, quit flinging insults. Because if that's all you have (and it's all you've shown so far), it's clear who is the person with "marching orders." :eyes:

[villager]

31. "Quit flinging insults?" Read your own posts lately?

That's what I can't stand about you arrogant, one-sided arguers -- there's no give & take, just vindictiveness, projection, and repetition of the same tired talking points you've seized on, etc.

but I'm sure your industry pals will love you for fighting RFK Jr's nomination to the EPA...

[trotsky]

32. Just as I thought.

Can't address the facts, so you fling poo. With an obligatory "industry pals" reference as well. Must be frustrating when facts aren't on your side, huh? :rofl:

[villager]

35. You certainly are as self-righteous as any actual Trotskyite I've known

And with that... off to the ignore list!

[trotsky]

36. Perfect ending!

Given every opportunity to support your position with facts or reasoned argument, you'd rather just plug your ears and fling another insult.

BTW, my username has nothing to do with the historical Trotsky. That joke's on you too! :rofl:

[blue sky at night]

3. I have been listening to Robert Kennedy Jr. for years.......

and I have never heard of these two guys....so who do you think I believe is wrong in their thinking!!!

Assholes. EOM.







CHange, HOpe, BArack OBama, JOe BIden....I would pray that you are never ashamed to speak their names.......!

[laconicsax]

7. So because you haven't heard of two people who happen to be actual scientists,

then they must be wrong and are assholes for disagreeing with the conclusions reached by someone who hasn't done any actual research?

Just wanted to make sure.

[blue sky at night]

12. oh excuse me......no fuck that don't excuse me:

he hasn't done ANY research.....ok. Wonder why he is being considered then.

[Indenturedebtor]

38. Many people who do great research can barely tie their shoes

I'm not excited about this supposed "anti-vaccine" lunacy. But not doing research doesn't disqualify someone from an agency position. I would rather have someone who cares more about the public than they do the top 1%, and yet knows how to operate bureacratic machinery than someone who's spent the last 30 years in an ivory tower.

I have a lot of respect for researchers, but I also respect bureacrats heh. Don't call a doctor when your toilet clogs.

[beam me up scottie]

8. Why listen to scientists when you can get the truth from politicians?

They always have your best interest at heart, don't they?

[blue sky at night]

13. exactly which politicans are you referring??

Robert? or Barack Obama and his team?

[beam me up scottie]

17. The ones that promise to save us from teh evil scientists!

Who are secretly poisoning us, remember?

[TZ]

29. hey Einstein thats a brilliant argument!

I never heard of a scientist therefore they can't BE an expert....:sarcasm:
Okay so a PhD in a scientific endeavor only matters if the person is a celebrity. Got it..
"Kennedy" trumps PhD and actual knowledge.
Cult of personality indeed!

[salvorhardin]

30. Who are PZ Myers, Orac, and Robert Kennedy Jr.?

PZ Myers is an evolutionary biologist at the University of Minnesota, Morris. Orac is a research oncologist. Robert Kennedy Jr. is neither, has no training in science or math. His heart may be in the right place, but he is woefully incompetent to speak on these issues.

[Muttocracy]

4. I would like to have a scientist instead of a lawyer heading EPA

I thought RFK Jr. was an environmental lawyer and journalist? Correct me if I'm wrong.

And I have this radical idea that internal candidates (i.e., from civil service coming up) are valuable.

[mirrera]

10. Robert Kennedy Jr. is perfect for the job.

You know people by their actions. He has been instrumental in cleaning up our water in NY. He is full of integrity, and he cares about our planet. When in doubt err on the side of keeping things clean. I hope he does appoint him.

[Peregrine]

15. The anti-vaxxers agree with you

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/11/my_last_word_on_rfk_jrfor_now.php#more|Orac>

The last thing we need is a person who not only supports but is an activist for pseudo-science as the head of EPA. The republicans will label everything coming out of the EPA as bad science and use his associations with cranks.

[WVRICK13]

18. SO YOU THINK MERCURY

is not harmful to the human body? It may or may not be the link in autism but that does not make it harmless. If you believe that then take a drink of mercury and tell us about it later. I am not blind to research, in fact I have a graduate degree in Applied Research and that article does not prove nor disprove anything. On the flip side neither does RFK Jr. To use one item as a dis-qualifier is terribly short sighted.

[trotsky]

20. The fact that you are trying to compare a mercury salt to a "drink of mercury"

indicates that you have absolutely no clue on this issue. Do everyone a favor and either LEARN, or stay out of it.

[gtar100]

23. Personally, I'd be happy if the guy in charge of the EPA actually gave a damn about the environment.

and didn't have the temerity to give it all away to corporations. RFK does fit that bill. I'm surprised at all the vitriol towards him here. So you want to paint him as a crank, eh?

"antivaccinationist crank and activist extraordinaire"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Let's stir us up some hate and fear with made up words. After all, we are Americans first and that's what we're best at. And he's not just an "activist", he's an **activist extraordinaire**. ~shudder~ :scared:

Antivaccinationist - what a crock of mercury, or mercury salts if you prefer.

So are mercury futures a good investment at this time? Somebody must know with all the defensiveness here.

[Odin2005]

25. This Autistic person hates the "vaccines cause Autism" BS with a passion.

Sorry, I'm not "poisoned" and I don't want to be "cured."

:puke:

[beam me up scottie]

26. Notice the correlation between religious zealots who think being gay can be cured?

That's caused by a curse from Gawd, don'tcha know? ;)

[Odin2005]

27. Yep. n/t

[girl gone mad]

33. I think he'd do fine.

There was genuine scientific disagreement over thimerosal, and there were actual scientific studies suggesting a link between the preservative and an increase in autism diagnoses. Scientists posit theories based on less evidence every day and they aren't called "cranks" and personally attacked in such a vicious manner when those theories don't pan out.

RFK argued that we should err on the side of caution. Thimerosal wasn't a necessary ingredient in vaccines. I think he was right. Celebrex, for instance, was yanked off of the market with less evidence against it.

I think RFK is correct that industry scientists tend to engage in groupthink. This blog is just an example of the closed-mindedness many of them have toward outsiders.

[Viking12]

34. RFK Jr went well beyond advocating the precautionary principle w/ respect to vaccines

He stepped into full blown conspiracy theory woo. Seems like you're on the precipice yourself.

[gtar100]

37. Yea, he's a known Antivaccinationist.

And they are the crankiest of the cranks, those antivaccinationists. It's good that there are people here who care that antivaccinationist are exposed. Those people are anti-antivaccinationists.

[TZ]

39. What studies where?

There are NONE. Both NIH, WHO and even the UN have studied this question and found NO LINK.
He also claimed that MMR vaccine was causing autism..when it never had THIMEROSOL in it in the first place.
Now, is that outright ignorance or deliberate ignorance? Either way is very troubling.
Someone who either lacks any knowledge of basic science or who has a deliberate anti-science agenda should NOT be in charge of a scientific agency.

[Johonny]

40. I like him

But he frankly can be lead into crank science pretty easily. He however has a good record and back ground on environmental law. Which makes me think he isn't a horrible choice for head of the EPA.