Nature: A Scientist (Virologist) Quits Science Because Of, Um, The Patriot Act.

[NNadir]

Personally, I was against the war in Afghanistan from the beginning, because my general default position is that I oppose all wars, because, in my opinion, all wars create the conditions for more wars.

That was certainly the case in Afghanistan in the 1980s, where the United States supported actively, some of the guys we are now fighting - including probably Osama bin Laden - who were then, as they were fighting our (then) enemy, the Soviets, were dubbed "freedom fighters."

Such is freedom.

As devastated as I was by the oil terrorists who struck my favorite city in the world, New York, in September, 2001, I was sure right then that the response was an over-reaction, and a blind striking out. Knowing who the "President" at the time was, I knew that the response would be botched, and, of course, it was.

I happen to live in the area where the Anthrax attacks - which took place at the same time roughly as WTC - took place, and I was sure that that was a bunch of bull too, and, apparently it was.

And then there was the Patriot Act, which was named, I guess, on the theory that patriotism is a form of stupidity. As I get older, I actually love my country more and more and more, but who was it that said something along the lines of "Patriotism is the first refuge of idiots?"

The Patriot Act did doodly squat for our country and the chief result of the act was to allow Dick Cheney to reduce his Viagra intake for a few years. The damage of the act may prove incalculable. To wit:

Rebeca Rico-Hesse knew that she wanted to become a virologist from the age of 15, when her beloved horse was at risk of catching the Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus then spreading through northern Mexico. Thirty-three years later, after decades of working on this and other potentially deadly pathogens, she talks to Nature about why she has now dropped the work. The reason: requirements to submit to a US Department of Justice background check to keep working in the highest-security labs at the Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research in San Antonio, Texas.

A number of scientists are pushing back against proposed additions to already-beefed-up biosecurity requirements (see 'Booming biosafety labs probed').

What viruses did you formerly work on?

I worked on arenaviruses, alphaviruses and flaviviruses. I stopped working on the first two in 2003.

Why?

Because of the Patriot Act . We have to register certain viruses as select agents. Any of us working on select agents had to go through the background check, filing our fingerprints. We even had to give a deposition to FBI agents. We had to go in and meet with three agents individually, with no lawyer present.

Initially, I told my biosafety officer and my supervisors that I took extreme offence to being treated as a criminal when I have dedicated my life to public health. So I refused. But one year later I went through the background check, because I was being treated like a pariah. My virus collection was taken away, and a padlock was put on one of the freezers in my lab....

http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090930/full/news.2009.957.html">The link, which is free, speaks for itself.

Like I always say, "Ignorance kills." It does you know.

Ignorance kills.

[stray cat]

1. Any chance she was unable to maintain grant funding like many scientists

no funding no job- might as well make a political statement out of it.

[NNadir]

2. Well, the news is in Nature.

You are free to write to Nature and suggest that this is the real reason.

They might publish your remarks.

The question of whether it is wise to fund science or to bail out say, consumer goods companies like car companies, and paper shuffling companies like banks, is beyond the scope of this thread.

[stray cat]

3. Its one hell of a tough funding season for science and alot of good scientists are losing jobs

[NNadir]

4. Well, I had occassion to talk with quite a few EPA scientists during the Bush Administration.

Talk about a rough life!!!

It was sort of like operating a women's health clinic in Vatican City.

[ironrooster]

5. There need to be politically aware persons of the highest ethical standards

in these positions - I wonder whether those kinds of folks would "pass" the background checks...

[NNadir]

7. I'm going to be frank here. I have no use for "politcal awareness" in science.

"Political Awareness" in science lead to things like Lysenko, and the creep (and Nobel Laureate) Johannes Stark, who was sentenced to prison for his activities on behalf of "German" Science..

On another website, I once wrote about famous "political science" case:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/22/221351/414/538/550686">The Most Interesting Chemistry of Lenin's Dead Body.

[bananas]

6. The link isn't free.

"This article is part of Nature's premium content."
"To read this story in full you will need to login or make a payment (see right)."
"Price: US$8"

[NNadir]

8. Well, I'm accessing it at a university, so I didn't know that.

There isn't all that much more in the article, but I suppose I can't post the full text.

You may be able to access it at a good local university library if there is one.

Sorry about that.

[izquierdista]

9. Sounds like Jewish science

You know, the kind where you have to flee the country whether you've won the Nobel or not.

[NNadir]

10. I once wrote a long bit about a great "Jewish" scientist who had an element in the periodic table

named for her.

She didn't win the Nobel, but she probably was vastly smarter than the German guy who did win the Nobel using her work.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/4/28/17297/7983">The Deformed Nucleus, Neptunium and the Rain.

The interesting thing about this woman, Lise Meitner, is that she refused to work on the atomic bomb at Los Alamos - to which she was immediately invited upon her escape from Germany - because she believed the weapon would be used on her homeland, Germany, and anyway, she didn't believe in war.

[Demeter]

11. She May Have Saved Herself from an Early Death

Considering how many immunologists have "conveniently died" in recent years.

[TZ]

13. Hmm. I'm an immunologist that worked in the government

during the Bush years and I had many friends at Ft. Detrick--in fact at USAMRIID. All alive and well. Thats a fucking myth about the government knocking off scientists..:banghead:

[Posteritatis]

15. Clearly they killed you so efficiently that you failed to notice. (nt)

[TZ]

12. Hmm. I've actually worked in labs that dealt with Anthrax

Most of the protocols put in are NOT rediciulous. Having worked in GLP compliance labs most of my career some of the lax security measures we had before 2001 are HAIR RAISING. The anthrax attacks aren't bullshit actually (I used to work with someone who worked at Detrick and was at one time considered a suspect) and the fact at the same place they've found some of the bioengineered anthrax IN THE GROUND speaks volumes of what their biosecurity is.
Sorry, I've seen to much lax bullshit to think that these measures AREN'T a good thing. If you don't think there are bad people who would take dangerous bio agents and use them on us and others you are a naive fool. And I'm no fan of the Bushies either.
I have a friend who works currently in BSL-3 and she knows about all the different security issues. Its a PITA, but its well worth it.
I suspect the scientist who complained is someone who has NEVER worked in a regulatory environment and is spoiled. Believe me these new rules are actually quite sensible. But what would I as a biologist know?

[NNadir]

14. I've been in Fort Detrick on a few occassions, post Patriot Act.

They search your car going in, and do nothing going out.

I have worked in highly regulated environments and have in fact participated in many audits - and I don't necessarily like regulated work to be honest. I've done it because someone has to do it. I'll be frank though, I have never been treated like a criminal.

Except for the anthrax attacks which closed my post office by the way, how many biological terrorists attacks have there been exactly?

Feel free to include the case of the Mongols catapulting their plague victims over the walls during the siege at Kaffa.

The Bush people behaved like arsonists wanting to be known as heros for fighting fires as far as I'm concerned with the Anthrax attacks. I very much doubt that the security they have now would have prevented exactly what happened.

[Meldread]

16. What is she complaining about, exactly?

If I understand correctly, she is complaining about the high security surrounding biolabs? Basically, she had to undergo a background check, having her fingerprints taken, and had to give a deposition to federal agents?

...and I'm not sure why this is bad? Granted, I can understand her feelings on the issue: it makes you feel like a criminal, and it's a huge hassle. Okay, I get that...

On the other hand, I'm not really sure why this is a big deal. I don't really know what she is working on, or what she might have had access too, but some of the crap that might be in those labs is super deadly.

I'd worry more about some type of super virus getting released (either by accident or on purpose) than I would a nuclear attack. The knowledge in those labs – or at least some of them – should be restricted. Hell, I figure most people here favor getting a background check to own a weapon – why the hell wouldn't people favor a background check to handle deadly biological agents?

[Orsino]

17. America's reaction was not "a blind striking out."

That would imply that the architects of war did not get exactly what they planned and wanted.

It was only "blind" in the sense that most taxpayers did not understand the rationale for endless war. They were indeed content to know that someone was getting bombed in retaliation.