How can you compete with fantasy land?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

This PETA thing just brings this topic to a head. Sometimes it seems as though people just shut out the truth to avoid the guilt. We hear this in the "but I buy organic meat", or "but they kill them quickly so they don't suffer", or most recently "why can't they just leave them in the shelter until they are adopted out"? It's the ostrich approach.

We have many very kind hearted people on DU and many people who adore animals and mean them no harm. However, still there are threads where people express their love of breeding. Breeding runs rampant. People want to buy cheap "purebreds" or they want to make quick money or they want to make a copy of their aging pet. True, ethical breeders are lucky if they don't sustain a loss. But unfortunately, most breeders are not ethical.

It seems hypocritical to me to have people on the one hand cheer breeders and on the other hand decry PETA for their inability to find a home for every homeless animal. How many people don't even look at shelters before turning to breeders?

Fantasyland says that there is a home for every animal, and it just isn't true. I've volunteered, and I've seen what no-kill shelters can be like. One in Indiana is essentially just one bedroom with the fourth wall being mesh. There were easily 25 cats hanging on various cat stands, crates and shelves. I've worked with vets. They aren't infallible. One vet I worked for was genuinely concerned with animals. The other was concerned with the cheapest, quickest way to do things. I saw how other employees cleaned cages and I saw kennal cough rage through the kennals because of improper cleaning methods.

Then there are the very nice shelters. But there is limited capacity. Either you have to set a strict limit on how many animals you will accept, OR you have to euthanize. It tears me apart to have to say euthanasia is a necessity. My best friend, Taylor, was a rescue who had been sent to be euthanized twice, but given reprieves because she was so sweet. Just thinking about her makes my throat lump up.

People decry euthanasia, then these same people should be shouting down breeding just as loudly. Shelters require that pets be spayed or neutered upon adoption. Many ethical breeders do this as well. It's a good idea, IMHO, and I wish it were enforced for pet shop dogs.

[Merope215]

1. I agree

It's hard for me to even think that there is such a thing as an ethical breeder. With 7 to 10 million animals being euthanized every year, how can someone keep adding to the population?

People keep saying that "adoptable" animals (though really almost any animal is "adoptable" given enough time and love) shouldn't be euthanized, and of course that's true, but there is simply nothing else to do with most of them. We adopted my dog from the shelter a day before his time ran out...he had a cagemate, too, but we could only get one dog his size, and I still feel terrible about his friend. I like to think someone adopted him later that day, but of course that's not very likely. Our guy is skittish, sometimes aggressive, and probably a little bipolar, if dogs can be that way, but we've had him almost a year now and he's really mellowed out with some affection and consistency.

All companion animals should be spayed or neutered until there are no more of them getting killed in the back rooms of shelters anymore. Then we can talk about breeding again. It's unconscionable to me that anyone who breeds animals or has ever bought a purebred could even start talking about this PETA situation, because it was made necessary by their actions and those of people like them. Thousands of "adoptable" animals are killed every day, usually in ways far worse than a simple sodium pentobarbital injection. Yes, it's a damn shame. But if you're condemning it, you'd better not breed animals or own one you didn't rescue or adopt.

People are so selfish and so very, very blind to the consequences of their actions.

[Warpy]

2. I know why animals that have been raised to trust people

are put down in shelters. Some are not adoptable, having been born feral or lived in homes where owners have trained them to be aggressive. Some are adopted as puppies and kittens and discarded when they're no longer "cute." Some owners put off neutering until after the animal is pregnant, then turn the mother and litter into the pound. Some owners simply lose interest and dump the animals (cruelest of all, IMO).

I wish there was something we could do about the human species, but it doesn't really seem like there is.

I have two cats I adopted as adults from the AHA. I wish I could afford to adopt more, but I cant.

The problem with the PETA story I posted is twofold: first, the animals were removed from an area where they had a ghost of a chance at adoption and killed, and second, the animal remains were dumped unhygienically.

Nobody who knows the truth about the unwanted pet situation doesn't accept the need for euthanasia. That wasn't the issue.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. No, many of those against PETA don't see the need for euthanasia

This OP is not about this particular incident, it is about the response to it. It is about all the people like Penn and Teller who cry "PETA kills animals!". The issue is the people that DON'T understand the nature of the situation.

And without the majority understanding the situation, we can't get laws passed to do anything about it.

[Lorien]

3. Then let's work to make laws

instead of pointing fingers and singing to the chorus about how selfish and stupid people are, bring this topic up with your local officials. Many towns have now adopted laws which make it illegal to keep an unaltered pet unless you are a LICENSED breeder. Fines are up to $200-more than it costs to alter a pet. Put laws on the books for those that breed animals; have them inspected, limit litter numbers per year. I have two purebred animals and a house FULL of rescues (I work for a local rescue group). The purebreds came from breeders that have no more than two litters per year, and who keep the parents as beloved pets.They screen buyers for their animals and require a four page signed contract that enforces alteration and states that the animal will be returned to the breeder for placement in a new home if the owner can no longer care for it. Breeding needs to be highly regulated and pet ownership laws need to exist to end pet overpopulation and suffering. In a perfect world, we could ONLY obtain pets through licensed breeders because there would be no such thing as a "stray". We need to put the laws in place now to lead us toward that future.

[Warpy]

4. Way ahead of you in this town

but people bring in unaltered animals from outside the city and that's where the problem comes from, especially when those unaltered animals are the less stable breeds and/or wolf hybrids. Those animals are generally not adoptable. Other people are simply careless with kittens and neglect to get them neutered until after that first litter. They don't realize that although the kitten still looks juvenile, she can be capable of breeding at six months.

One of my cats was one of those, a purebred Maine Coon (they start at $400 and go up around here) turned into the AHA because she was pregnant and the owners just didn't want to deal with it.

One program locally adopts mixed breed dogs out to other shelters across the country in cities that don't have access to unregulated areas from which to import unaltered animals. That's cut down on the euthanizing of dogs, at least. Neuter and release programs seem to be making a slight dent in the feral cat population, where simply scooping them up and euthanizing them did not.

Still, this wasn't the point of the article I posted.

[Lorien]

5. I was responding to the OP. n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

6. I had your purebreds in mind when I posted.

As I said, there are some ethical breeders, but they are not the ones that do it for the money. They do it for the love of the breed.

If only animals that came from THESE breeders were sold, the problem would drop dramatically. The question would be, what would be the requirements to obtain a license? As I said, good breeders and rescues make you sign a contract that you will alter your pet.

We've had this discussion before Lorien, and you're not the type of owner I am talking about. You didn't get your babies from an unethical breeder and if I remember correctly you tried rescues as a first option, but there was not a good fit. It would have been cruel and unfair to knowingly put any of your animals in a situation that you knew ahead of time would not work out.

Please don't think I was attacking you, or ethical breeders. The breeders I am referring to are the ones who do it for a quick buck. They breed as often as possible and sell their dogs cheap. They don't do home checks and they don't care whether their dogs or cats are healthy. The people I refer to are the posters who so loudly decry euthanasia but see no problem with those breeders I just spoke of. I apologize if this was not clear.


Finally, in a perfect world:
You would need a license to keep an unaltered animal. This license would be difficult to obtain and need to be renewed often.

All animals would be altered BEFORE they went home, whether from the breeder, the shelter or the pet store.


But until people understand the gravity of the situation and stop pretending that PETA is just the cruel monster killing animals, we will never get these laws passed. People will say that their companions are their property and they should be allowed to do with their property as they wish.

[LisaLynne]

8. I think avoiding the guilt is exactly why people react so ...

strongly to PETA and vegetarians, which is another issue, but one we've discussed in the forum before. It's the same attitude I've seen among a lot of people regarding the environment. I think for some people, the problem is just so horrible and huge they can't imagine doing anything that would matter about it and so they just shut down. They rationalize. They try to convince themselves that things are not that bad. I think all that pent up anger that results from the dissonance in their heads (because they KNOW on some level they're lying to themselves) builds up and they vent -- at anything that's around. At least, I think that's how it is with the people who, deep down, really do care.

And then there are those others who just plain don't want to do anything that might require thinking. :)

[livinginphotographs]

9. The shutting out the guilt thing is dead on.

So many people scream bloody murder about the whole PETA incident with the dead animals in dumpsters, but it's nothing but "See! They're as nasty and disgusting and immoral as we are!" How that can be something to be proud of, I'm not sure.

It's easy to condemn PETA for killing the cute animals, but I seriously doubt CCF or any of the people thirsting for PETA's blood would give a shit if it was a cow or a chicken that was being put in a dumpster.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

11. Well cows and pigs and chickens are thrown in dumpsters everyday

in every city. But they are "bred to be eaten". I don't think it matters to the animal.

[justiceischeap]

10. Keep in mind

That the municipalities in NC dump the dead dogs and cats at their local landfill, so their outrage is a wee bit hypocritical. I also think a lot of what we've been hearing about in the media will have the light of truth shone on it when this goes to trial. I strongly believe the animal cruelty charges will be dropped, hence adding the trespassing charges. Two misdeamonors instead of 31 felonies.

[Catchawave]

12. I agree....the media's been lazy pointing out

that the lady charged in this matter is a licensed euth tech. The initial reports claimed by NC law enforcement was finding "controlled substances" in the van. The investigation should reveal a paper trail to those drugs, whether it be in NC or at PETA headquarters in Norfolk.

My question for the "rescue team" would be why a dumpster? PETA's disposal rules are clearly cremation? Maybe she's so desensitized to the fact that all unwanted pets are disposable garbage anyhow. Euth techs do suffer severe mental problems and burn out. Compassion Fatigue? Here's a good article:

http://www.petfinder.com/journalindex.cgi?path=private/humancare/wellnessandhelpingourselves/2.29.5.txt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

13. Yeah, the dumping of the animals was awful.

But as you say, those that Euthanize for a living can get messed up pretty quickly.