'sghetti sauce. Do you put sugar in it, do you use bay leaves, and

[babylonsister]

what's with using only wooden spoons? I just made 4 meals of homemade in the crockpot, something I haven't done in years, and it's delish, but am wondering about the above. Why I ever started using jars of this stuff I'll never know.

Edit to add: Also, do you recommend paste, puree, sauce, and why? I used a bit of everything, to please every palate.:P

[NMDemDist2]

1. I have put honey in it occasionally usually when I added too much

red wine vinegar :blush:

I usually use a combo of sauce, puree and stewed maters, and I have added bay leaves but don't find they add enough and they don't stand up to the oregano and basil, so i think it's just a waste of a good bay leaf LOL

the wooden spoon thing has something to do with the acidity of the tomatos, I'll let chefgirl or H2S take that one, there's some cooker chemistry in there I don't understand :rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

2. Okay ......

Sugar .... you only need to add it if you use fresh tomatoes and they lack sweetness. You're not making candy, but some tomatoes can be a bit tart. *IF* you add it, do so near the end of the cooking time.

Wooden spoons only? Never heard that one. But I will say that tomatoes can and will stain wooden spoons. Most people I know how make their own gravy have one spoon they use for just that purpose.

Paste/puree/sauce? None of the above. Use canned plum tomatoes - San Marzano if you can find them. If not, just get the best plum tomatoes you can find. Here's what I do: Open the can and, using the lid as a sort of strainer, drain off as much liquid as you can into the pot or a bowl (more on the choice of which to use later). Use a potato masher and break up the tomatoes right there in the can. The can's handy to use cux it keeps the tomatoes in a tight space making the crushing easier. You want small but easily discernable lumps of tomato flesh.

Depending on the type of gravy you're making, you can dd back the liquid or not. Not using it makes for a thicker gravy faster. But using all the liquid and allowing it to cook down results in a richer, more developed taste. You might want to use some tomato paste to thicken it at the end.

You might also make a quick-cook marinara sauce. This is supposed to be watery, so the liquid and the tomatoes are used and cooked for only abouot a half hour.

A note about paste, puree, crushed, and canned 'tomato sauce' .....

Paste is concentrated tomatoes. Use it mainly as a way to thicken a gravy. It adds some flavor, but that's not its main purpose.

Puree is a homogeonous tomatoe liquid - think of tomatoes run thru a blender. It is suseful for making gravy that will be eaten by someone with diverticulitus since it has no seeds in it. I almost never use it unless my elderly aunt is visiting.

Crushed tomatoes are generally made from low grade tomatoes that have had the bad spots removed. I just don't trust it. I'll crush my own, thanks!

Canned 'tomato sauce' is little more than a lightly seasoned and slightly thickened puree. Its nice ti use as a quick topping for meatloaf or something similar, but isn't really a good gravy ingredient.

Here's my family's very basic gravy recipe:

One large can of San Marzano tomatoes, crushed with the potato masher as described above.

One small onion, diced

Three or four cloves of garlic, finely chopped

Olive oil

Parsley, basil, and oregano (fresh or dry) to taste

Salt and pepper, to taste

Sautee the onion and garlic in the bottom of a pot. When just going transparent, add some of the herbs and the tomatoes. Allow to simmer until reduced by about half. Salt and pepper to taste. Stir in more of the herbs (**only** do this with fresh herbs). Remove from the fire and serve.

Obviously this is a meatless gravy. You could fry some sausage or meatballs and then use the pan drippings in place of the olive oil to sweat the onion and garlic. The make the gravy as desscribed above. it is optional to cook the meat the rest of the way in the gravy.

For what its worth, we never made gravy with ground beef. That's a Northern Italian thing (Bologna) and we're from Campagnia.

[babylonsister]

10. That is way more than I'd ever thought I'd know about

canned 'maters and the art of making a sauce. This thread is a saver! Thanks!

[Rhiannon12866]

15. Wow. Thanks for the amazing post.

As usual, I learned quite a lot.:D

I just knew that I didn't like crushed tomatoes, and now I have a legitimate excuse not to use them. :-)

When I used canned sauce, it's usually just to thin out the sauce, and I also used the paste to thicken it, so I wasn't so far off...:shrug:

I use canned plum tomatoes, but break them up by hand. That way I can remove the odd bit of peel, if I happen to find any, and the tough bit at the top of the tomato...:-)

And I'm going to try your recipe. It sounds quite easy and also very good, especially if I can find fresh herbs. I used to grow my own basil and have always meant to try growing a greater variety. I really do prefer fresh herbs, but here in the North Country, it's not always easy to find certain ingredients...:-(

As for using a wooden spoon, what I've heard is that you should avoid a metal spoon for the same reason that you avoid using an aluminum pan, because it reacts with the acidity of the tomatoes.:shrug:

Thanks! This is great!:yourock:

Rhiannon:hi:

[jeanarrett]

16. I usually add a little sugar to just about everything

that I add tomatoes to (something my mother did). Like spaghetti sauce, chili, etc. It seems to me to cut some of the citrusy-ness of the tomatoes and makes it more palatable for the shorties who complain about tomatoes in things.

[wiggs]

17. OT: question for the campagnia cook

Since returning from vacation in southern italy, I've been on the hunt for the special campagnia lemons used there but very rare here (CA). I'd like to find a plant to grow, not just the lemons. Research has given me the name of the variety (femminello ovale, esp Santa Teresa, Sfuzato, and more) but no grower. UC Riverside has some plants in the ground and is working to find a source for me but no luck so far.

My interest is in making authentic granita di limone..but need the delicately perfumed, lumpy lemons of campagnia for nirvana.

Any ideas?

And thanks for the tomato sauce tips above. My grandfather (northern Italy) would use grated carrots sometimes in his sauce for sweetness.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. I know what you mean about those lemons. They're very special.

There's nothing like them available here, so far as I know. Not only are they huge, they're also sweet enough to eat out of hand. I really miss them and the wonderful blood oranges you get there. The ones from California are not the same at all. They're good ... but not the same.

I suspect you can get reasonable granita from a good US lemon. Not the same as from an Amalfi lemon, but acceptable. We've made Limoncello with unwaxed lemons to good result. Have you ever tried that?

Here's a (shivering and not very complimentary) picture of Sparkly at a roadside citrus stand in the Littari Mountains, on the road from Amalfi to Castellammare di Stabia. This was an early April day and it was unusually cold that year. You can see how huge the lemons are; the size of a head!

[NMDemDist2]

20. what a beauty! (and the girl isn't bad either)

:hide:

[wiggs]

21. Nice lemons

We haven't tried to make our own Limoncello yet....I like it on ice cream and I like to look at it, but haven't made much of a dent in the bottle we already have.

I have my own Meyers -- good lemons -- but not the same. I have some good granita tips. We got a recipe (really simple) from a wonderful hotel we stayed at in Castellabate (Cilento area) and I have a book (The Man Who Ate Everything) that devotes an entire chapter to perfect lemon granitas. I'll muddle through, but will continue to look for the Femminello.

Nice picture. We drove a little in the area above Vico Equense...I believe that's in the Lattari mountains too....loved the little farms and gardens. And since we had a kitchen, we shopped in town at little markets, buying really fresh stuff for use that day. I asked one frutta i verdura vendor if he had any sage for cooking. He said he did and went in the back and brought out a 1 gallon sage plant that we groomed the rest of the week.

It's also pesto season now and I continue an ongoing (several years) effort to make pesto as good as found in Liguria.

[NashVegas]

22. Call Me a Heretic, I Start With Paste

It's what my mom taught me.

[BeTheChange]

3. No and no...

But I have been known to put a pinch of baking soda in. It brings out the sweetness, cuts the acidity and adds the right amount of salt flavor.

I only use a wooden spoon.. and I only use an enamel pot. I don't use metal exposed pots because the tomato will oxidize on contact with the metal making it weird tasting.


Ive also been known to use all types of tomato incarnations except crushed. Mostly, I stick to whole tomatoes and tomato sauce.

[babylonsister]

4. I love you all for your additions!

I did not have fresh tomaters, so that was out. My SO INSISTS on puree, I do not know why.
He did try the sauce, and likes it, wonder of wonders.

Also, do you chop up onions and cook 'em?

I used sugar (only a wee bit), no bay leaves, and 6 sausages, 3 sweet and 3 hot, in the sauce, but didn't cut them up til I knew how many days of feed I'd have, so it wasn't greasy. Oh, and lotsa fresh garlic!

[Rhiannon12866]

13. I rarely use fresh tomatoes, since the canned ones work fine.

I have used them in my vegetarian sauce, which has a base of onions, peppers, celery and carrots, all chopped really fine and cooked down. But it's important to make sure that the fresh tomatoes are peeled first, or you'll be picking out tomato skin, which is a pain. Just drop a whole tomato in a pot of boiling water for a few seconds until the skin splits and it slips off quite easily.:-)

As for onions, I chop them up very fine. I also do the same thing with peppers. My SO hates gobs of anything, as do I, and large pieces don't cook down properly. If you chop them small, they just melt into the sauce, so nobody objects even if they don't much like onions or peppers.}(

My mother has taken to leaving the onions and peppers in huge pieces, so my Freeper brother can pick them out. I don't understand the point, since the sauce doesn't turn out the same and she should just make some other kind...:shrug:

And I add salt, and maybe some garlic salt, but never sugar.:-(

And I always use fresh garlic, also minced, quite a bit, as well. Since my meat sauce cooks for three hours, everything cooks down.:9

[Tab]

5. Just a little sugar

to take the edge off the tomatoes. You don't need much.

[Lorax]

6. About a tablespoon

I have always added about a tablespoon of sugar to a big huge pot of sauce. I was told it cuts the acidity of the tomatoes and it's just been something I always did. Now I think I'm going to try the baking soda.

Thanks for the tip on the canned tomatoes.

[BeTheChange]

11. If you do a huge pot...

you may need two pinches of baking soda. Add one pinch, stir.. its gonna foam a bit.. DO NOT TASTE IT, you will think Im a crazy loon if you taste it right after you add it. Let it simmer for atleast 10 minutes after you add the baking soda. Also, dont add your salt until after the baking soda. Dont add any more then two pinches if you dont have problems with heartburn, it alters the taste in a way that I dont really like. However.. I have a weird sensitive palate.. for instance, I know before it makes it past my lips if someone cooked their sauce in a metal pan or used metal spoon.

Also.. instead of that sugar.. add a couple of whole peeled carrots to the sauce. Remove them when you serve it. It will add the sweetness in a more subtlely layered fashion and doesnt require processed white sugar. Carrots are such a staple in sauce I forget to mention them :) If you like your sauce even sweeter.. microplane a carrot and add it.

Bon appetit!

[Warpy]

7. It depends on the batch, really

The weeds vary according to my mood and long simmered sauces may contain things like fennel. Sugar is used to cut the acidity if you end up with something that is a little puckery due to the tomatoes or tomato paste you've used. They can vary widely. Seasonings are generally adjusted according to how the sauce is to be used, whether for fish or chicken or veggies along with the pasta.

In other words, forget the rules, there are none.

[The empressof all]

8. You need to taste it to really know if you could use the sugar

I rarely use it. Like H2S, I use the San Marzano tomatoes but I also use paste. (You need to cook the paste first) Someday when I have the time I'll post the recipe for the meat and tomato gravy I grew up with. Meatballs, Sausage (2 kinds), braciolle, pork chops, panchetta, create a meat base.

[TygrBright]

9. My Darling Husband has a helluva sweet tooth, so yes, I usually...

...add a touch of sugar. What kind depends on what kind of sauce I'm making and what kind of sauce I'm making depends on what ingredients I have on hand, and what time of year it is. Winter sauces with canned tomatoes, a squirt of sun-dried tomato paste, sauteed yellow onion, crushed garlic, and dried herbs seem to work better with brown sugar. Summer sauces with fresh romas, fresh herbs, shallots or fresh greentop Mexican onions, minced garlic, etc., seem to do better with a sprinkling of white sugar. If I'm going for a more robust sauce with olives and veggies in it sometimes I'll sweeten with a bit of white grape juice or honey. Sauces finished with cream seem to work best sweetened with white sugar.

When I'm making sauce for just me, though, I often omit the sugar and add a little extra zip in the vinegar, wine, or lemon juice line. I'm fonder of tart/sour flavors than the DH. I've also noticed that at 7000 feet, flavors seem to need enhancing a little with an extra pinch of salt or sugar, which seems counterintuitive to me, since so much liquid evaporates during cooking, you'd think the flavors would concentrate MORE. However, at least two high altitude cooking gurus I've read recently endorse this, saying that if you're flavoring with extracts, herbs, spices, etc., an extra pinch/few drops should be added to any low-altitude recipe, and an extra pinch of salt and/or sugar to boost flavor helps many dishes.

informatively,
Bright

[Rhiannon12866]

12. Here's my mother's spaghetti sauce recipe, I posted a couple of weeks ago.

This is a meat sauce. I've made numerous other kinds, vegetarian w/mushrooms, marinara, broccoli, mushroom & zucchini sans tomatoes, but this one was the only one that I knew about while growing up.:-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=236&topic_id=23151&mesg_id=23151

And I never use bay leaves or sugar. My Sicilian friend is horrified at even the mention of sugar. I do use fresh garlic and basil or oregano, dried or fresh.:-)

As for the tomatoes, I may add some canned sauce, or some paste as my mother does, but I almost always use whole canned roma tomatoes, crushed by hand, rather than canned crushed, since I can't stand the bits of peel that are always in crushed tomatoes. Maybe I'm strange, LOL, but I only trust myself to eliminate the bits of peel...x(:D

As for wooden spoons, I think that this is probably for the same reason that you avoid aluminum pans when dealing with something as acidic as tomatoes.:shrug:

on edit: I also often add just a pinch of dried mint, crushed. Though both oregano and basil are members of the mint family, so I sometimes make do with them. The mint was also a suggestion from my Sicilian friend, says it cuts the acidity of the tomatoes...:-)

[nuxvomica]

14. I never use sugar or onions

The basics you need for a meatless sauce are basil, garlic, olive oil, tomato paste, skinless plum tomatoes and some alcoholic beverage. Get a couple of big cans of the plum tomatoes and crush them if they're whole. Get them started on medium heat in a large pot and add a lot of basil.

Sautee the fresh peeled garlic cloves in a deep skillet with the olive oil until they are soft and golden, not brown. Then stir in a can of tomato paste and the alcohol. I prefer Gordon's vodka but any wine or clean-tasting liquor will do. I've even used Chivas Regal in a pinch but Kahlua or Bailey's is out of the question. Cook on medium to high heat stirring constantly cuz you don't want the paste to burn. The alcohol's job is to merge the oil with the tomato paste because they won't mingle unless they are both good and drunk.

Once the skillet mixture is smooth and the paste has lost it's deep red color and is more orangey, add the whole thing to the pot of crushed tomatoes and cook while stirring for a while until you get a nice orange froth. Once you think it's all cooked, test the sauce by dumping a little in a saucer. If you tilt the saucer slightly, the main body of the sauce will be thick and red but a clear orange liquid will run off of it. That's the sign that it's ready.

The whole process shouldn't take longer than an hour or two. You can also add oregano and mint leaf to the sauce pot if you like but no onions or sugar.

I always use a wooden spoon cuz there's a lot of stirring and I don't want to scratch the skillet with metal.

edit: when cooking the paste, also add one or two paste cans full of water.

[mike_c]

18. I put balsamic vinegar in my marinara sauce...

...which balances acidity with sweetness, but I don't use sugar itself. I do use bay leaves. I haven't made a marinara sauce in years though.