Bread

[MelissaB]

I'll admit upfront that the only bread I make is pizza dough, so I'm looking for ideas. I searched here and read through some threads, but a novice like me needs more help. My mother and great grandmother both baked their own bread. Neither used a bread machine, but I'm not opposed to buying one if I need to. MeMaw made the best rolls in the world, and my mother used a sour dough starter for breads and cinnimon rolls.

My family eats a lot of Italian bread for sandwiches and with different pasta dishes, which we have several times a week. Hubby has been eating a 9 grain whole wheat bread, and I'd like to do whole wheat, too. Am I crazy to think homemade bread will be healthier than store bought?

I have a food processor to help with kneeding. Do I need a bread machine? Something special to bake bread in? Care to share some recipes?

[NMDemDist2]

1. we've had several threads on bread. my MIL makes great bread

with her food processor

specifically what do you want to know?

as far as a bread machine, they are easy peasy. just fill em and forget em. we've had two bread machine threads too, do a search in here and you'll find lots of recipes too

:bounce:

[MelissaB]

2. I guess I'm looking for Italian and a whole wheat.

I didn't see those recipes. Maybe I didn't read carefully enough. :blush:

Also, do I need a bread machine? It sounds sooo easy. I did read enough to see that someone recommended a ZOJIRUSHI and found this on Amazon. It ain't cheap!



http://www.amazon.com/Zojirushi-BBCCX20-Home/dp/B0000T6J3I/sr=8-10/qid=1156629949/ref=sr_1_10/102-6536165-0428111?ie=UTF8


Edited to add: Do I bake it in stoneware or what? :blush: I told you I know nothing about baking bread. :)

[wildeyed]

3. People are divided on bread machines here.

I have one and love it, use it several times a week. But you can do fine with a stand mixer, and it has many other applications, where the bread machine is only for bread.

I have a Breadman Ultimate. This one http://www.amazon.com/Breadman-TR2200C-Ultimate/dp/B00004R93S/ref=pd_sbs_k_3/104-3191258-0015949?ie=UTF8 I must have bought it on sale cause I paid a lot less. I like it fine, but if I had know how much I would use it, I might have gone with the Zo. I hear that with the two paddles, you get excellent texture, better than with a stand mixer.

I also know many people who bought a bread machine and now it sits in the back of the pantry, unused. Hard to know before hand if you will really like it or not.

One other thing, be sure you have a place to store the bread machine if you do purchase one. They are quite large.

on edit: I saw bread machines on Overstock.com ages ago. They are probably all sold, but worth looking into if you decide to buy one.

[MelissaB]

5. Do you just use the recipes that come with the machine

or try your own?

If I had a good bread recipe that I knew someone liked I'd try it on my own before spending so much $$ on a machine, but the idea of just putting the ingredients in and letting it go is appealing since we both work and run the kids to their activities.

[wildeyed]

14. I use this book sometimes

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385477775/sr=1-5/qid=1156641396/ref=sr_1_5/104-3191258-0015949?ie=UTF8&s=books

The two recipes I use most frequently are "Pain A L'Acienne" or Old Fashioned Bread, which is made with a little rye flour, in addition to the bread flour. It requires a sponge, which I make by adding some of the ingredients to the bread machine, running it on dough setting and then letting it sit overnight. The next day I add the rest of the ingredients and run the machine on the regular french bread setting. The second is "No Pain Ordinaire", which is a simple, no frills bread, nice for an accompaniment for the evening meal.

In addition, I use a few of the recipes from the book that came with the machine pretty regularly. I make pizza dough from a basic recipe in "How to Cook Everything".

I gotta warn you, I bought the bread machine and immediately gained 5 lbs. I started making fresh whole wheat bread for the children's afternoon snack. We started putting Nutella on it. You really can't have just one slice.....


on edit: I can post one of the bread machine recipes for you if you like. Do you have a friend who can lend you a machine to give it a try first?

[MelissaB]

26. That book is on the "get" list.

It has such wonderful reviews. I'm thinking that right now I'll try the food processor for a little while and then get a bread machine. They just seem too convenient.

Your next to the last paragraph scares me. I'm trying to lose weight (and thinking of buying a bread machine). I just realized that I am crazy! :crazy: My new plan is to make my own whole wheat bread and nothing else. :) Also, I don't have a friend with a bread machine. I wish I did.

[NMDemDist2]

4. french bread-- and search for anything by housewolf

she's our resident bread expert

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=12192

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=12192#12200


breadmaker thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=14970

wheat roll recipe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=19987

[MelissaB]

8. Thanks! As for the wheat roll recipe...

it would work for a loaf of bread right? It sounds wonderful.

[NMDemDist2]

10. i would think so, it's all in the shaping once the dough is going

at least that's what I understand :shrug:

i'm pretty new at this whole bread thing myself, so don't count on my example. I have a couple real basic recipes i do that my dear Mr. Ketchup likes. and he DOESN"T like it when I make "not the bread"

:rofl:

[MelissaB]

11. You mean there is no "shape rule" recipe for bread?

:rofl:

I was rofl after I asked that question, but I thought I'd better ask to be sure. :rofl:

[NMDemDist2]

12. i re-read the recipe and it's fine for bread, just put it in the bread

pans for the second rise instead of just punching it down, divide the dough and let it rise in the pans the second time, then pop it in the oven.

It will probably need to bake for 45 minutes or so, you'll want to use a temp probe. you want it around 200-210 interior temp. another way to do it is the "thump" test, but that is a little trickier for a new baker.

what I do is pull out a loaf, pop it out of the pan into my (pot holder covered) hand and look at the bottom. if it's nice and browned I give it a "thump" with my knuckle. if it sounds hollow it's done. if is sounds solid or looks pale I stick it back in for 5-10 minutes

[NMDemDist2]

6. as for your edit, there's only one way to learn. get your hands in some

dough and give it a try!

here's a thread on artisan bread. as for the stoneware question I'm thinking of add one to my gadgets but have also had good results with boiling water in a bowl under the bread when it goes in the oven

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=5203

find your local store that sells flour in bulk, buy a bunch of flour and yeast and start experimenting

:bounce:

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

7. I see bread machines all the time at the thrift shops.

Most of them are still in the boxes. Maybe you could go that route first & if you like it, then buy the one you linked. Just a thought.

[MelissaB]

9. I'll also watch Ebay.

That's my usual thrift store. I can't seem to find the time to go to any brick and morter thrift stores, and I don't think there are any good ones around me.

[The empressof all]

13. Get a Kitchen Aid instead of a Bread Machine

I rarely make bread anymore but when I did I used the mixer more than the bread Machine.

[NMDemDist2]

15. yup I agree. I had a bread machine and the mixer just gave better

results, even if it took a bit more watching

[murphymom]

16. I second that suggestion

I use my Kitchenaid for bread. What I don't care for about bread machines is you're stuck with the shape of the loaf, unless you take the dough out and bake it in the oven, which kinda defeats the idea of the bread machine. I don't like the shape of the loaf mine makes, so there it sits in the cupboard.

I made a New Year's resolution this year to make as much of my own bread as I could, and rather than try a bunch of recipes, I picked one I had success with and fiddled with it until I got it just the way I liked it. I started with an oatmeal bread from Beard on Bread, then changed a couple of ingredients and made some additions. I like the fact that it makes 3 loaves, so I can freeze two and not have to bake so often.

This is my everyday Oatmeal-honey bread (makes 3 loaves):

3 cups rolled oats
4 cups boiling water
7-1/2 to 8 cups bread flour
2 tablespoons active dry yeast
1 tablespoon salt
1/2 cup honey
4 tablespoons salad oil
1/4 cup walnuts, chopped
1/4 cup sunflower seeds, chopped

Add the boiling water to the oatmeal, let cool to lukewarm. Add the yeast and 2 cups of flour, mix. Let rise uncovered until doubled (often I get this started in the evening and let it rise overnight).

Add the remaining flour, honey, oil, salt, nuts and seeds, mix, then let 'er rip in a stand mixer with the dough hook for 10 minutes (or you could knead by hand). Turn out onto a lightly floured surface, shape into 3 loaves and place in 3 greased bread pans. Let rise until the loaves are nicely mounded over the tops of the pans, then bake in a preheated 350 degree oven for 40 to 60 minutes. Turn out of pans and let cool on a rack.

---------

Now I'm ready for some additional recipes - if anyone's got one I'd love a good rye bread recipe and an all or partial whole wheat one that isn't too heavy.

[NMDemDist2]

17. that was my complaint with the bread machines too

the shape of the loaf was weird and had that big hole in it :wtf:

[wildeyed]

22. Ours is never around long enough to worry about it.

Funny thing is, when I bake the dough in the oven and get the nice shape, I never get credit for making the bread. Everyone assumes it was purchased. But when I plop my misshaped bread machine loaf out there, everyone ooohs and ahhs. Guess it really looks homemade, lol.

Some of the newer models of bread machine make a more traditionally shaped loaf. I think the Zo is one of them. The hole in the bottom, guess there is not a way to get around those and still have the bread machine convenience.

[MelissaB]

18. For everyone recommending the Kitchenaid, I think you are recommending

a mixer, but would a food processor work? I make pizza dough in our food processor. Would a mixer be better?

Murphymom, thanks so much for the recipe!

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

19. I think the processor mucks it up too much.

And I think that you still need to knead by hand. :shrug:

PM Housewolf. She knows everything worth knowing about bread. She walked me through my first few loafs.

:wishtheweatherwouldbreaksoIcouldtrymakingmorebread: :mutter:mutter:mutter:

[NMDemDist2]

20. like I said, my MIL does good bread in her food processor

I'll ask her when she gets here but that will be Oct.

sorry

[Warpy]

21. The food processor doesn't have the heft it takes

to do a good job on bread dough. Some commercial models can do the job, but if you're going to spend that kind of money, get the Kitchenaid mixer instead. The cheapest Kitchenaid will be cheaper than the appropriate food processor and is much more versatile. In fact, once you get it, you'll wonder what you ever did without it.

The only thing I use the food processor for these days is cutting butter into flour for biscuits and pastries.

[housewolf]

23. Bread... machines & food processors

Hi MelissaB,

You've been getting some good advice here, just though I'd throw in my two cents worth.

One of the most intriguing aspects of bread baking for me is the variety of tools, techniques, recipes and processes that all work! Everyone has their favorite. One of the most fun aspects of bread baking is experimenting, trying different things until you find what works best for you.

Some people use a food processor for bread dough and they just love it. There is an excellent bread book for food processors titled "Best Bread Ever" by Charles Van Over - you can see it on Amazon.com here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0767900324/sr=8-1/qid=1156709139/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9288332-5798265?ie=UTF8">Best Bread Ever
The tricky part about using a food processor for bread dough is that the high speed of the the blade has the potential of 1) heating up the dough too much and 2) over-kneading the dough. If your machine has a plastic dough blade, use it instead of the metal one. Read your owner's manual about bread dough and give it a try.

No matter how you decide to start out, persistence will be your friend... bread baking is both science and art and like any art, mastering the art takes experimentation and practice.

Other people LOVE their bread machines. For fresh home made bread with the least amount of mess, time and "bother", bread machines are a wonderful convenience. Their sole purpose in life is to knead and bake bread, it's what they are designed for, and for many people, a bread machine gives they exactly what they want. (personal discloser: I own 3 different brands of stand mixers, love them all, each has it's own "thing that it does best" - and I often use the the bread machine to knead my bread dough. I don't bake bread in it (rather I take it out and let it rise more slowly at cooler temperatures), but it's the best gluten-developer that I've used).

Other people love their stand mixers and take a great deal of pride in the bread doughs that their stand mixer produces. I've had great bread from stand mixers and highly recommend them IF you are a baker and in the market for a multi-purpose machine that will not only mix bread dough but cream butter, whip cream and egg whites, mix up cake batters and cookie doughs, do mashed potatoes and a host of other cooking and baking tasks. I would not recommend that a newbie bread baker go out and spend the money on a good stand mixer just for making bread, I'd hate to see you make that kind of investment until you are hooked on bread baking and thing that you need one for bread and other purposes.

Other people swear by kneading by hand, they can't conceive of kneading bread dough by any other means. I have the utmost respect and admiration for them. Still I must say, kneading by hand is a messy and, in my opinion, difficult task, and I've never been able to develop a gluten network as well by hand as a machine can do.


In the end, all 4 methods of dough-making have the same goal: to develop a strong gluten network in the dough that can capture the gasses that are released by the yeast that both flavor and rise the dough. The best tip I can give a newbie bread baker is to learn what well-developed dough looks like and feels like. I often suggest that new bread bakers buy a package of frozen bread dough at the grocery (Rhodes or Bridgeport or something), take it home, let it thaw out in the refrigerator and then learn from it. What it looks like. What it smells like. Put your hands in it and feel it. Shape it into rolls or a loaf, let it rise and bake it. See how it bakes up. That gives you a good idea of what well-kneaded bread is like. (Granted, not all varieties of bread require this type of dough development but it's a good learning experience for new bread bakers.)

Here's a hint: the most often mistake new bread bakers make is to add too much flour to their dough. The right consistency of dough for the type of bread you are making is probably the most important thing to learn. In general, you want a dough that is soft and moist but that holds a ball shape while sitting on the counter. Sometimes people say it should feel like a baby's bottom - soft and "lively", not hard and solid. Even with a bread machine, it takes practice to figure out the right amounts of flour and water to use to get the results that you like.

Good luck to you! Happy loaves!

[MelissaB]

25. Housewolf, the book is on the way.

It only makes sense to try this first since I have a food processor and don't really care to kneed dough by hand. I think I may end up with a bread maker down the road, but this is how I should start. Thanks so much for all your help!

[politicat]

24. I use a bread maker in summer and a stand mixer and oven in winter.

Has to do with dealing with oven heat and AC in opposition.

I like my bread maker. It's useful and requires almost no thought on my part. Summers, I tend to be scatterbrained (kind of reverse SAD) and will forget to deal with bread if I don't have a machine doing so for me.

I use a digital scale to weigh my flour and the best baking cookbook on the planet is the Cook's Illustrated "On baking". It's not cheap, but it's worth the price. A good second is the book put out by the pastry chef at Patisse (the froufy whole foods restaurant in Northern California) (The Professional Pastry Chef, Bo Friberg)

My bread equipment consists of 2 glass pans and a baking stone (now black and utterly non-stick), a kitchenaid stand mixer with dough hook (that gets use other times, too) the scale, and the breadmaker. Total cost was about $325, but not all at once. The kitchenaid and the breadmaker were most of the cost. I have a Salton Breadman that is perfect for our needs. I have crappy wrists and joints and not enough time so I don't knead by hand. I also have a wooden board - a sheet of high grade maple plywood from Lowe's and treated with lemon block oil for shaping. it is NOT a cutting board and anyone taking a knife to it will die a painful death.

Yes, homemade bread can be more nutritious, but it definitely will be of better quality, fresher and cheaper. It all depends on your ingredients. No additives helps. Vital wheat gluten is your friend if you're going to do whole wheat or multi-grain; most non-wheat flours don't have enough gluten and whole grain requires a higher proportion of gluten so that the yeast has an elastic structure upon which to rise. Warning: homemade bread stales faster, so be prepared to make bread crumbs for adding to meatloaf and as breading, and cubes for croutons, stuffing and bread pudding.

[MelissaB]

27. That's exactly what's so appealing about the bread maker...

it seems to require little thought, and I'm busy. Who isn't?

I didn't even think about a digital scale before this thread. I'm so glad you are all so helpful. Thanks so much for all of the advise!