Outdoor Pizza Ovens thread (note: pic heavy)

[Tab]

(please forgive my capitalization errors - my shift key is toast)

Okay, these are in no particular order, it's just (first) a collection of my bookmarked pizza info.

Depending on your financial situation, some may or may not be doable. Of course, if you regularly cruise Costco looking for food freebies, you're probably going to be opting for the DIY solution.


Mugnaini
http://www.mugnaini.com







Forno Bravo Pompeii Oven & supply list
(Forno Bravo just makes the chamber, $2000 - $3000, but they also have plans for building the base, which
I estimated was another $2500 based on the materials list)
http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/pompeii_oven.html





OvenCrafters
(they're more in it for the bread baking, but they do have a section on wood-fired oven construction with lots of decent links)
http://www.ovencrafters.net/




DIY
(Not the greatest, but you can usually glean something from most things you read)
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/outdoorpizzaoven




Fogazzo
http://www.fogazzo.com/html/building_a_wood_fired_oven.html

(I would love to have this oven)




Los Angeles Oven Works
http://losangelesovenworks.com/
(comes with a great photo gallery)









Masonry Stove Builders
http://heatkit.com/html/bakeoven.htm







Traditional Oven
http://www.traditionaloven.com/




The Masonry Heater Assoc of North America (good resource)
http://mha-net.org/




Peter Moore Masonry
http://www.vtbrickoven.com/ovens/ovensteps.html




Frankie G's oven page
http://www.deltabluesfestival.net/pizza_oven.htm




Veraci Pizza
(booked for installations through the end of NEXT year)
http://www.veracipizza.com/


_______________________________________________________

I didn't post the link for earth/mud ovens as you didn't seem inclined to make one.

I have Rado Hand's CD (he's the dude from Australia), although it's mainly the stuff from his website (his "swishy" oven) and some extra stuff. He's funny, he doesn't ask specific dollar amounts, I don't think, but he does suggest what would be welcome would be something useful, like a pair of socks. I think I sent him $50 and he was most appreciative.

It seems there's the "Alan Scott" model, which most people seem to agree is the best, there's Rado's oven, cheap but functional, and this third kind whose name is escaping me at the moment.

Where I am, the ground freezes and thaws, so I'd have to lay a 12" to 18" bed of gravel under the concrete pad, which in turn means digging a 12" to 18" deep area perhaps 40" to 60" in circumference, which to me says "go forth and rent thee a Bobcat".

Where I live this doesn't fall under building codes (aside from the fact that I have to be 15' or more away from the setback with the property line), but I would have to conform with fire codes, which basically means it's so many feet from a structure (e.g.: my house) and clear of any trees immediately overhead and a certain distance from the woods. Which is fine, I know where it can go.

I think I'm just reluctant to start because of the base - you screw that up, you can't just "move" the oven - and the basic oven design, and cost and timing.

Generally the ovens are ugly looking things on concrete. What makes them spiffy is the outer covering - stucco, bricks, tile, stones, whatever. I'm sort of partial to stucco or tile. It looks like you build the oven, then build a shell (just chicken wire would do) and fill the top with Vermiculite, cover it.

The main considerations in design is (1) if you want to build the chamber yourself, or buy one (e.g.: Forno Bravo), (2) how it vents, (3) where you live (ground freezes? In Californ-i-ay there are extra requirements for minimum rebar in the pad and whatnot because of earthquakes. Fortunately I don't live there. It's just that unless you do a cheap mud one (and believe me, I'm tempted, even if I do have to rebuild it every five years) because once they're built you're committed to that location and design. (4) Intended usage - pizza, bread, meats, or all? (5) Size - make sure it's big enough, but not too big, otherwise you'll never get the damned thing fired up in a reasonable amount of time, and that leads me to (5) firing time - whether you want to just get it fired up in 45 minutes, or you can afford to take hours.

So, feel free to comment or add to this thread, as I will as more of my memory comes back. I will also post my list of books as soon as I find them.

- Tab

[NashVegas]

1. I Like This One

It's simple enough you could put it anywhere (in the winter, you could add a fan and heat your place with it), and if you want to fancy it up by painting or adding tiles, looks like it ought to be very easy.

[Tab]

2. I actually liked the one right after that

except my house doesn't have a contemporary design - maybe I was just lusting after whatever I thought the kitchen would be like.

With a child, five dogs, two birds, a rabbit and a guinea pig, the chances of my having a showroom kitchen/living room are approximately zero.

[NashVegas]

3. Yeah, That One's Totally Sweet

But you'd have to rebuild the room :)

[Stinky The Clown]

4. The outside of these things can be almost anything you want them to be.

The actual oven is inside that housing. It is simply the oven floor and the dome. Even the chimney is an accoutrement.

This picture is from the forno bravo site. It is, admittedly, an unfinished oven, but it would, indeed cook just like it is. In fact, there are many old ovens in Europe that are pretty much just like this.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. My own choice was the Pompeii oven built from Forno Bravo's free plans.

I calculated the materials cost to get to a fully parged, insulated, weatherproof oven on a three foot high base was about $600 a year or so ago. That included a few inches of vermiculite over the dome and then a screen wire form and parging (stucco) on that.

Basically like this, but a little more finely finished. This one is intended to have a house built over it.



Here are Forno Bravo's plans

http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/table_of_contents.html

[Tab]

20. You think you could do that for 600 bucks?

base pad and everything?

[Stinky The Clown]

22. Yup ...... I counted the needed bricks and blocks, estimated the mortar needed .....

.... etc. About $600 bucks a year or three back.

The big costs come when you make it look pretty. But if you get ..... I dunno .... rocks in the wild or free, used bricks, the cost to finish it may not be so bad either.

[Warpy]

6. The funky NM alternative is the horno

an arrangement constructed of river rock and the local clay, cheap but far from dirty.

When one is fired, generally the extended family gets into the act, baking their bread and cornbread and finishing off with a chile stew.

A great description of the whole process is at http://www.periodistacostilla.org/stories/horno.html

[Tab]

7. From what I can understand

Pizzas go first, while it's hot, then bread goes second, as it retains heat for a long time at a lesser intensity. You could fire it up, make some pizzas, and then spend the night baking bread.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. There are so, so many traditional mud or mud-derived ovens all over the place.

I read a treatise on a much and twig oven they built up in the Quebec area of Canada. The climate there is obviously very unfriendly toward any sort of mud structure. So they developed an oven that could be built quickly and easily. They would get a year or so out of them and then build another. I also read that the firing of the mud oven actually helps it survive longer than other mud structures might last.

[Warpy]

15. When a woman dies on some of the Pueblos,

her horno is no longer maintained and is allowed to go back into the earth along with her adobe house.

Down the line and with consensus of the elders both might be resurrected by someone else, varying periods having elapsed and both structures in ruins.

It seems direct ownership of the earth not being possible for them, it also applies to direct ownership of the things they make from the earth.

[Tab]

16. From your title

I thought for a moment that you were going in a VERY different direction.

[Dover]

8. Some odds & ends from my own wood oven collection

Renatos, Woodfired Oven
http://www.renatos.com/

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Cob Ovens (DIY)Fun and easy to make, sculptural and easy to repair yourself if needed.
http://www.balinsky.com/gallery/coboven
http://www.earthgarden.com.au/strawbale/cob_oven2.pdf
http://www.cobcottage.com/taxonomy_menu/13/16/28



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Tulikivi
http://mainemasonrystove.com/baking/index.html
http://www.mountainflame.com/health.htm
YouTube Oven Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7w3TsozhMw

Nothing says lovin' like something from the oven — especially if it's from a contemporary version of the old-fashioned wood-fired oven that has been used throughout Scandinavia and northern Europe for centuries.

Tulikivis — combination bake ovens, fireplace and stove units from Finland — are what's hot when it comes to cozy cooking combined with efficient household heating.

The Tulikivi (pronounced "TOO-la-KEE-vee") is now gaining favor in the United States because of its clean-burning efficiency, healthy heat output and versatility.

"A two-hour fire will provide heat for 24 hours," said Ron Pihl, a Tulikivi distributor in Montana.

Pihl is not only a Tulikivi distributor and installer but a fan of the unit that he uses to heat his own 2,000-square-foot, two-story home and to bake goodies ranging from roasted chicken to sourdough bread.

"There's a huge movement in the United States to this rustic way of cooking and baking. It's environmentally correct style because you're using a renewable resource (wood) for heat and it's a healthy way of baking, cooking and heating. I love to spend my days off baking in the Tulikivi oven. It's more trouble and time-consuming than microwaving a meal, but it's more satisfying. I like the idea of cooking a lot of things with one little pile of wood. It's an experience that grounds you," Pihl said...cont'd

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2003/03/21/homes.0321-TAB-F9_BJR03040.sto


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And charcoal heated Tandoori oven is a slightly different animal:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-tandoori-oven.htm (uses gas)



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And this is just a neat site - a school in Minnesota that teaches workshops on many of the old world living techniques such as wood stove making and baking, home brewing, timber framing, etc.

http://www.northhousefolkschool.com/classes/Foods.htm

[Tab]

9. Yeah, I skipped the mud ovens

because he specifically said he wasn't interested.

I didn't post about a Tandoori, because that's sort of a separate topic, but I'd be interested in exploring a Tandoori - I don't think they're that hard to make. Personally, I'd love to have one, but given a choice, I'll take a wood-fired pizza-oven first.

[Dover]

10. Oh, I guess I was thinking of this thread as a resource for anyone interested in woodfired ovens

rather than just for one person. Forgive the intrusion.

I saw horno and thought of cob.
"Mud" ovens are affordable and a fun project for those on a budget. I have great memories of
helping a friend build a cob oven several years ago and it makes great bread, pizza and even
pots of beans. :9

[Tab]

11. No, no intrusion

Mud ovens are worth considering. I had to skip it as a choice for myself as I just don't have that much mud available. There's only one or two books I've seen on mud ovens - I'll have to dig it out. A few are pretty interesting.

[Dover]

17. Yeah, mud is not always available. My friend purchased the ingredients

which are still very inexpensive. The workshop leader told her the formula of sand, straw & clay/soil to buy, and where to get it. I suppose a neighbor doing excavation on their property might also be a source to consider for some of it. There are several good books on cob cottage building, but didn't know there were any on cob ovens. If you find your copies, I'd appreciate knowing the titles/authors and your opinion of them.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. I recall seeing those sculpted mud ovens on the intertubes ........

..... they're fascinating. I fear the effort would be short lived here on the Atlantic coast. They seem more appropriate to a dry, warm clime.

[Dover]

14. Cob is actually GREAT for use in northern climates

for ovens AND for houses. Just an fyi in case you might otherwise have considered using cob.
I'm not pushing it, just wanted to include it as an option for anyone considering a woodfired oven.

The Cob Cottage Company is located in Oregon (link in my post), and have built cob houses, ovens, etc. all over the U.S. and particularly in their home territory. So I'm sure it's been put to the weather test. If anyone is interested in trying it, you might contact them to find out if they know anyone in your area who might like to give a workshop using your oven as the project. That was how my friend's project was done. We had about 8-10 local people sign up and pay a small fee to learn
how to do it. It took a weekend and was such great fun.

Here's an excerpt from their website:

What is Cob?
Earth is probably still the world's commonest building material. The word cob comes from an old English root meaning a lump or rounded mass. Cob building uses hands and feet to form lumps of earth mixed with sand and straw, a sensory and aesthetic experience similar to sculpting with clay. Cob is easy to learn and inexpensive to build. Because there are no forms, ramming, cement or rectilinear bricks, cob lends itself to organic shapes: curved walls, arches and niches. Earth homes are cool in summer, warm in winter. Cob's resistance to rain and cold makes it ideally suited to cold climates like the Pacific Northwest, and to desert conditions.

Cob has been used for millennia even in the harsh climates of coastal Britain, at the latitude of the Aleutians. Thousands of comfortable and picturesque cob homes in England have been continuously occupied for many centuries and now command very high market values. With recent rises in the price of lumber and increasing interest in natural and environmentally safe building practices, cob is enjoying a renaissance. This ancient technology doesn't contribute to deforestation, pollution or mining nor depend on manufactured materials or power tools. Earth is non-toxic and completely recyclable. In this age of environmental degradation, dwindling natural resources, and chemical toxins hidden in our homes, doesn't it make sense to return to nature's most abundant, cheap and healthy building material?

[Warpy]

21. Stinky, it rains and snows here, too

The whole point is that firing the oven to heat it for bread also fires the clay and makes it much more durable than a mere mudpile.

[Stinky The Clown]

23. Doesn't the outside wanna .... I dunno ...... dissolve?

I understand about the inside getting all fired up. But the exterior, too?

[Warpy]

24. The whole business gets pretty damned hot

but yes, it does need its exterior mudded up every couple of years, not much for maintenance.

That's true of adobe houses, too. At Taos Pueblo, they've taken to covering the exteriors of all their old buildings with chicken wire as an armature to hold the mud in place so they can skip a season now and then.

[Tab]

25. i think it's on the order of an adobe clay mix

once dried, it can absorb water, but it wouldn't really 'dissolve'

unlike one of my dogs who i'm going to frigging drown in the toilet pretty soon if het doesn't stop howling.

i think cob works on the same principle as adobe constructions - once dried, it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Dover]

26. They put a lime-based or earthen plaster coating on it .

And like stucco it will need occasional maintenance, but not often. And it's easy and fast.
You can also create some sort of roof for it as well. Here's a picture of a simple one:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2007/09/29/_ul_jj_3homes1002+Z.jpg


An article:
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2007/09/29/homes.nw-329981.sto

And a good online resource (with lime plaster info):
http://www.papercrete.com/lime.html


Book: http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/builyourearo.html

[Juneboarder]

18. Argentina

I have relatives from Allen, Argentina and for them it is standard to have a pizza/outdoor oven like these in their homes. I have always thought how awesome it would be to have one of these...

[Tab]

19. I'm pissed because I used to have the perfect setup

but, alas, this was before I got into wood-fired ovens.

I used to own this big-assed 6000 sq ft brick house - on the bright side, I wouldn't be able to afford to heat it now - probably cost me $20k a winter - had two furnaces, three oil tanks, etc. Anyway, this place was gorgeous, but huge. It did, however, have a backing fireplace (meaning, on the opposite side of a regular fireplace, sharing the same flue, or at least the same chimney). I couldn't use it because I didn't have the financial wherewithal at that point to get the necessary repairs done (the place had multiple chimneys and fireplaces, and that crap isn't cheap to fix), but I would have had (if I got it repaired) an indoor wood-fired pizza oven.

This was 15 years ago, and I wish I knew then what I know now. I'd love to have that thing now.

[mod mom]

27. Within weeks I will be firing up our new wood fire oven.

A local pizzeria owner was constructing the domes for ovens. He got a huge order to mass produce a portable oven for the chain Lowes so he wanted to clear out his workshop. My husband purchased a dome for a 50th b-d present for me. I originally wanted to build a clay oven, but hubbie, who is an architect, wanted one that would relate better to our modern house and worried about the permanence w our Ohio weather. He hand dug the foundation, followed construction details from the forno bravo site, and construction the oven just outside our kitchen. The dome gets placed tomorrow and we are awaiting an insulating blanket, and vermiculite panels that will surround the dome. We looked at many styles of oven, but hubbie wanted something that related to our modern flat roofed house. So far we have invested about $1,300 in materials but the oven will be a commerial size and he put in a $350 slab of granite as well. We have no good bread near where we live (even though it's semi-urban, only those nasty chains like Pannera have survived).

Anyway, I found the forno bravo forum to be very helpful regarding information. I'll try to post a photo but I still haven't figured that out yet :blush:

[Phentex]

28. This damn thread has haunted me!

Ever since I showed it to my husband, he's been fairly obsessed. It will be a while before we build ours, but there is continued talk of the pizza oven every time we are in the backyard.

I meant to curse Tab for this earlier! :)

[Tab]

29. Someone cursed me

which I why I couldn't do it last year

But just this second we were talking about the yard, someone is rototilling it, and I asked them to save the stones because I'd like to do the pizza oven this year (I'll have help, which is one of the reasons, sickness aside, that I couldn't do it last year). So I have pizza ovens on the mind.

Then I log onto DU and lo and behold, what thread has worked its way to the top again?

Must be meant to happen.

- Tab