My hamburger buns took forever to rise

[wryter2000]

http://www.recipesource.com/baked-goods/buns/00/rec0051.html

I made the above recipe yesterday. It says the buns should raise (sic) for half an hour. After hours and hours, they hadn't budged.

The yeast was new and proofed just fine. It was cool here yesterday, but the house was over 60 the whole time. I decided to leave them overnight, and this morning they'd finally risen. It took about 20 hours.

I've had problems with bread not rising, especially if I use whole wheat flour. Does anyone have any insight into this.

[housewolf]

1. I may have some ideas...

but before I say much, may I ask you if you have used this recipe before? If so, how has it turned out for you? I'm asking because some aspects of the recipe are different from what I am used to seeing/working with so I'm a little suspicious of it. I'm curious as to how it's turned out, if you have made it before.

If you haven't used it before, what was it about it that made you choose it? What were you trying to accomplish (other than the obvious, of course - that being some hamburger buns).

One more question - what do you use to mix your bread - do you mix by hand, mixer, bread machine????

Thanks,

[wryter2000]

2. Thanks

No, I haven't made this recipe before. They turned out great, by the way. It just took sooo long for them to rise.

I think the mixer may be part of the equation. I used my kitchen aid mixer. When I've tried making recipes (pizza dough and bread) using white flour only, I've had regular rises, esp. with the pizza dough. All three recipes using whole wheat flour I've tried haven't risen well.

I really wanted a sandwich bun. I looked through various recipes for kaiser rolls and hamburger buns, and I liked the look of this one best.

[Lars39]

3. Did you add wheat gluten to the wheat flour?

From my box of Hodgson Mill Vital wheat gluten: For most bread recipes, in addition to yeast, simply add 4 tsps per loaf to your dry ingredients.

I've been wanting to try subway buns for a while. :)

[wryter2000]

5. I didn't add any gluten

Just used Stone Buhr whole wheat flour (2.5 cups) and white bread flour (1 cup).

[housewolf]

4. Well, let's see here...

As for the hamburger buns, the things I can think of that would cause them to rise so slowly are

- insufficient yeast or old yeast (but you said it proofed well so eliminate the old yeast factor, and the qty of yeast in the recipe is quite high in proportion to the flour and water quantities, so I don't think it's either of these)

- insufficient water (too dry of a dough) (This recipe seems to have a high percentage of water in proportion to the amount of flour, so I don't imagine that it was too dry a dough)

- inadequate kneading resulting in inadequate gluten development (but you said they finally rose okay, so it probably wasn't this)

- too cold of a temp (generally, especially with a quick-rise like this recipe (I've never used a recipe that says the dough rises in 30 minutes before, so I'm winging it somewhat), a recipe would suggest that the dough be risen at about 85 degrees, which is standard rising temp for most bread baking (unless you are specifically doing a long slow cool rise). The recipe does, however, call for an unusually large quantity of yeast (based on the amount of flour and water), so perhaps the purpose of much yeast is to allow it to rise quickly.

Based on your saying that they turned out great just took about 40 times longer to rise than the recipe says, I'd have to put my money on the problem being too cool a temperature. 60 degrees is quite cool for bread dough, packaged yeasts tend to like about 85 degrees.

Next time you might try allowing the buns to rise is a warmer place - many people put them in a cold over but then turn the oven light on, which creates nicely warm place for rising, or in the microwave with a container of warm water, or in a closed cooler with a container of warm water, or something like that.


Whole wheat is a bit harder to work with than white flour for a couple of reasons. One is that it absorbs more water than white flour, so the dough needs a bit more. In terms of water, you always want a dough that is soft and moist, not sticky (although a little bit tacky is okay), and firm enough to hold its shape.

One of the theories about whole wheat loaves is that in the little pieces of bran have sharp edges created by the milling process, and that these sharp edges cut the gluten strands, resulting in a lower-risen loaf. Wheat gluten (also known as vital wheat gluten) is a good addition to whole wheat dough, it will help give you a higher-rising dough. Some people use a product called "dough conditioner" that helps make a soft higher-rising dough.

Whole wheat flour also just is heavier than white flour, so it can't rise as much.

You might need to be careful about what kind of whole wheat flour you use, too. Wheat comes in hard and soft varieties, as well as winter and summer varieties. You want to be sure that you use hard wheat, and winter is bit better for bread than summer. These qualities affect the amount of gluten-forming protein in the wheat, which is what allows the bread dough to rise. Soft wheat flour is pastry flour, suitable for cookies, biscuits and such but not for yeasted bread dough.

You also want to make sure that you've fully developed the gluten in the dough while kneading.

The best cookbook I know of for whole wheat bread baking is "The Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book." She takes readers through, step by step, how to successfully bake whole wheat loaves. All of her recipes are for whole wheat flour only, no white flour. Many, many bakers credit this book with them FINALLY making great whole wheat loaves.

Good luck, glad you finally got to enjoy your hamburger buns!

[wryter2000]

6. Wow

Thanks for all of that. Just writing it all must've taken some time. :yourock:

Of the things you listed, probably the temperature was it. I'll try the trick with the oven and the oven light. That could probably help. I'll think about buying some gluten, too. Someone else suggested it, too.

I think I have the Laurel's Kitchen bread book. I'll look for that. I must have over 100 cook books.

Grocery stores have hard (bread) and soft (cake) and mixed (all purpose) white flours but just one flavor of whole wheat flour, which I would guess is all purpose. This is definitely a whole wheat problem, but if letting it sit overnight to rise is a solution I'll probably just plan accordingly.

[Gregorian]

7. Yep. This is a real subject.

I've spent years baking whole wheat bread. Only the last few bakes have I had any luck at all. Two things I have done that helped my bread keep it's rise are the addition of wheat gluten and rye flour. And even then, it has a tendancy to fall once it's in the oven. Also extended kneading has seemed to help. The weird part is, I used to bake this bread as a kid, and I never remembered having problems.


As for your burger buns, I would second the temp. as being the problem. Actually, it's not a problem. The colder, slower rise supposedly yields a better flavor.

[wryter2000]

8. I'm eating one right this minute

It sure is good.

I had no idea whole wheat bread was such tricky stuff.

[housewolf]

9. If they have a really great flavor

It's probably because the long rise allowed for lots of flavor development. If you do the quicker rise at 85 degrees, you won't get as much flavor.

Thats what worried me about the recipe - it's way high on yeast, and a 30 minute rise, single rise ... well, my fear is that they'll be somewhat yeasty or raw tasting. A traditional recipe would have you knead the dough, put it in a bowl and rise until double (an hour and a half, or so), shape into loaves or buns, then rise again until double (another hour or so). Some even have you punch the dough down twice and let it rise in the bowl twice before turning out, shaping and final rise.

Lol! I have to admit my bias here against quick-rise bread... I'm a fan of the long slow cool rise method.

Anyway, good luck... may your loaves rise high and light