I think we need a new DU group - Electronics

[Duer 157099]

But until then, I will continue to post those kinds of questions here...

Regarding cable DVR box -- in this case, a Comcast/Motorola DCT something or other. I would like to have a feature similar to a playlist, like with mp3 players, so that I can set up a bunch of recorded shows to playback consecutively without intervention (non-attended).

Clearly this isn't a built in feature, so there would have to be a creative solution devised.

The best I can come up with is to build a robot who can hold a remote control and punch in the various buttons at specified times/intervals.

But I don't know how to build a robot.

So? Any other ideas??

[DaveJ]

1. Instead of a robot, why not make a remote control that does the job?

That would seem to make more sense, IMHO, since it would have no moving parts. I've been very interested in making electronic devices recently. A few weeks ago I had my first circuit board that I designed printed for me and it works! I have a variety of ideas what do make with it -- it has 6 outputs that can control things and 12 inputs, and it works via USB, or I can write firmware that will run on its own. It all depends on what software I write. It's a very cool thing to get involved in.

Creating a new product like your describing might take years though for one or two people who have full time jobs. A less time consuming approach might be getting a DVR that does what you describe already, or getting a DVR that lets people hack into its software. There must be something like that available. And there are various DVR setups that can be installed on a PC. You'd have to buy a TV tuner card, and probably a special remote, and acquire the software. You could always Google the topic: http://www.google.com/search?q=pc+dvr

I personally think this forum is appropriate for electronics questions. There are a few people who are electronics experts here, and computers involve a lot more than software after all.

[Duer 157099]

2. OK, the robot part was sort of tongue-in-cheek

:D

I wish that I had been interested in and learned about such things as circuit boards etc when I was younger (and had better vision, lol). Even now when I want to attempt something simple like soldering a simple fix on a circuit board, fuhgittaboudit, my body just does not cooperate.

The DVR I'm talking about is my cable company one, so it's not like I can just substitute it with another. I have googled quite a bit and so far have not found a solution compatible with my situation.

Which is what leads me to the most basic solution, ala robotics, even if in jest, because it's the only thing left to consider.

The issue is that my cable box/DVR is full of stuff that I want to save to watch, but the box is very old and I want to turn it in for a newer one, but I can't until I extract what's already on it, so what I'm looking for is a way to dump, en masse, the contents. The obvious way is to just play everything and let it record to a secondary device (not a problem) but it requires intervention since the DVR only plays back one selection at a time (and there are probably about 50 or more shows). So, the best solution would be a "playlist" type function where I could tell it to play the whole disk contents which would be captured elsewhere (even if in real time, if unmonitored, would not be a problem).

How cool to design your own logic board tho! Can't wait to hear what you're going to do with it. I have a DIY version of an EEG that I wish I had more confidence to tinker with...

[DaveJ]

3. Not sure, but it should be possible...

I noticed a couple websites that deal with the topic of getting video off of the DVR you mentioned. Of course, there are copyright laws involved, but as long as it's legal I guess there are ways to do it...

http://dvr2mac2dvd.blogspot.com/
http://www.joshnichols.com/2007/02/17/rip-recorded-video-powerbook/

In general based on my brief research it appears that the DVR may have a firewire port that allows copying of non-copy protected video...

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/140165

Also, this may be unfounded rumor, but a guy I know at work said that Comcast in our area now must legally allow customers to use any DVR they want. The best way to find out, of course, is to talk to the people selling the DVR you may want (like Tivo) and finding out if it works with your service.

If you are interested in Tivo, it is pretty good in that it allows you to download any videos to your PC over your home network, if you buy their software for $25 or so. They will also be upgrading their software soon to allow video RSS feeds and YouTube content to be downloaded from the DVR. (Unless they change their minds I guess)

But I haven't seen any video playlist features in standard DVRs. I also had the Dish Network DVR once and it wouldn't do that either. For that you might need to go the build your own DVR route.

[RoyGBiv]

4. Automation is the problem ...

You're not going to be able to do that unless you want to hack the software of the DVR itself. This is certainly possible but far beyond my areas of expertise.

It's set up that way on purpose, or I should say some of the features you want are not even considered because of already mentioned copyright problems. Various factions in the entertainment/media industry are at loggerheads over the very idea of a DVR at all, similar to the battles over VCRs and DVD recorders. What keeps it from being a bigger issue than it is involves the lack of easy ability to transfer recorded programs to other archival media.

The playlist functionality is a somewhat different matter. The problem (or one of the problems) with cable company DVR devices is that the software that controls them sucks. The big cable companies and equipment manufacturers are far behind the companies that were built on personal video recording technology, and they don't have a great deal of incentive to improve their software because of a lack of real competition. Some services I've seen do have that function. I think the one my friend has is RealTV or some such thing, and you can set up play lists with it. I've never seen a cable company's DVR even remotely as advanced.

I don't know the specifics of the Motorola box. Cox used Scientific Atlanta, so what I'm about to suggest may not apply. Our boxes had an enabled SATA port. You could hook an external drive up to that port and use it as the storage device. You could *not* copy files from the internal hard drive to the external; when the external was attached, it superseded the internal, and everything was saved to it, and the only recorded programs you could watch were from it. You could, however, take that external drive, hook it up to a computer, and grab the files off of it. But, they then required mucking around with the format to get them to play. So, it wasn't really worth the effort, imo.

For what you're wanting to do, a better long-term solution is to build a MythTV device.

[Duer 157099]

5. Thanks for the input.

I'm just not ready to take on this sort of project, although it's certainly on my "to do" (at some point) list -- thanks for the headsup about MythTV, that's probably what I'd use when it came time.

So now I have another idea. I am so sure that this is doable, just not sure of the specifics on how to achieve it.

Essentially I need a macro.

<play>
(pause for length of selection)
<guide>
<down> (x1)
<play>
(pause for length of selection)
<guide>
<down> (x2)
...

lather rinse repeat

So, a way to program a remote with the macro. I KNOW it's doable! It must be!

Only tricky part would be that sometimes these DVRs are flaky about their IR response and that could mess everything up. It'd be better to have the macro directly interact with the DVR instead of going through the remote.

*******

ahaha... more reading to do...

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Programming_the_Remote#Sending_an_EFC_code_manually

[Duer 157099]

6. Getting closer...

I remember now that I ventured down this path before for some other purpose, long forgotten; guess it's time to revisit

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/tvremote.aspx

I *know* this is doable, dammit, and I will do it.

and then there is this (which loops back to the MythTV issue...)

http://iguanaworks.net/projects/IguanaIR/

OK, so now I realize that what I need to do is get a USB IR transceiver, set up a computer near the cable box, write a macro with the "Playlist" specs I need, using the IR codes for the cable box, and let er rip.

Right?

I think that's it.

[Duer 157099]

7. I've settled on a solution

I'm going to pick up a used Palm V from ebay for less than $20, and then spend another $20 on this piece of software (free trial):

http://static.the-gadgeteer.com/omniremote-review.html

Voila. This is exactly what I need.

[Duer 157099]

8. Exactly. That's it.

Going to make my own programmable remote, as described below.

:hi:

[DaveJ]

9. Really?

You are seriously going to figure out the signal patterns for the remote and hook a microcontroller up to that IR transmitter? Al this for an obsolete Motorola DVR work the way you want? I'd say build a DVR instead.

At any rate, if you do want to make your own remote, there are other IR tranceivers:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?FS=TRUE&Ntt=*ir*+*transmitter*&N=1491383+1323038&Ntx=mode%2bmatchall&Ns=P_SField&OriginalKeyword=ir+transmitter&Ntk=Mouser_Wildcards

Then you'd need to select a microcontroller to control it, one with enough memory to store the signal patterns, and all the components in between.

Plus, it's hard finding people to help. Most people are not so adventurous. In fact, most people discourage me from trying to accomplish anything of the sort. Most, not as in over 50%, but 99.9%.

[Duer 157099]

10. Absolutely!

Aside from it coming in handy for my current need, I imagine it will be nice to have a programmable remote for other, unknown, future uses. Like, what if I don't have a remote (or a remote breaks) and I need to control a device? Well, this is how you would do it.

The remote codes for plenty of devices are already online, so that's actually not much of a problem. Also, for the way I'm going to do it, the IR device can "learn" the signal from my current remote -- you just aim your remote at it, press the button, and assign that code to a button on the new computerized remote.

I'm going to do it with a Palm M105. The software is all there (the link I posted explains it all).

Now that I've learned about it, it's going to be alot easier than I expect. And I imagine I'll come up with other uses for this sort of thing, down the line. :hi:

[Duer 157099]

11. BTW, I'm not building this from scratch

it's not nearly as complex as you're imagining -- it's actually quite simple to use the Palm pilot for this purpose, which has built-in IR function. Software is already written.

[Duer 157099]

12. It works!

Got the Palm pilot today, installed all the stuff, found the relevent files, played around with them, etc, and just tested it -- it frickin works!! In fact, it seems to control the cable box even *better* than the actual remote itself (I used codes I found online instead of training it with my remote, wonder if there's a subtle, but important, difference).

Don't have time to document it all here now, but if anyone is interested, I can later.

A $20 programmable universal remote! Awesome! (but I need to register the software after the trial, so another $20 -- but even so, well worth it!)

Now I need to figure out all the details of making the macro, but that shouldn't be too hard. Good thing cuz this box is at the 99% full level, and I have to keep deleting stuff that I want to watch!

[jayfish]

13. Holy Crap, That Company Still Exists?

I bought that SW and the little transmitter about ten years ago. I still have the transmitter but the Palm has long since hit the dust-bin. Good to see they are still around.

Jay

[Duer 157099]

14. Hey, I never claimed to be an early adopter

:D

I like waiting until things are really really really established.

And cheap ($20 for the Palm, and most of that was shipping cost)

But it works, so I can't complain at all.

[jayfish]

15. I Looked At That Review You Posted...

up thread and that was the exact review that made be buy the unit. I remember that I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread when I got it. The only problem I had was that the little IR unit seemed weak, especially compared to what they said in the reviews. I had to give up on it after a HDD crash. I lost the program and the e-mail purchase receipt.

Oh and I'm all for a tech group. I know a couple others who are interested but we are all too lazy to start the process and see it through.

Jay

[Duer 157099]

16. Regarding the IR signal strength...

I was concerned about that too, but for my purposes it's not going to be a problem at all -- I don't need this to function like a typical remote, where it needs to be mobile, etc -- I can literally just place it next to the box I want to control, so not an issue. But, I did find the attachment that bumps the signal, on ebay, just in case (haven't bought it, don't need it yet).

I'm loving this thing! It's going to perfectly take care of this pesky little problem that's been nagging at me for a long time.

:hi:

Oh, and now that I know what I'm looking for, I found several other programs that do the same (if not better) thing -- but I don't want to invest any more time in it since it's solved for me.