monitor/video card problem

[dweller]

Actually, i know it's not the monitor, but it's a problem expressed in the monitor.

Grey, blurry horizontal lines appear across and around any open window frames and message box and go completely across the monitor, if i open multiple windows, each adds a line or two more.

It's happens to every monitor i hook up that otherwise work fine on another machine.

i can post a pic if the description isn't clear. I've checked for updated drivers for video and monitor, but hasn't helped.

what should i be looking to replace, or tweak?

tia

dp

[RoyGBiv]

1. Need info ...

System specs, video card brand, model, etc., driver version ... has it always done this, just start? When did it start? Getting worse or consistent problem? Any new software installed that deals directly with the video card functions ... etc.

[dweller]

2. okay, what i know

it's a dell, dimension 8100, video card nvidia geforce2 mx/mx 400 (is that the card?) have the latest drivers downloaded from dell.

it's been this way since i got it, several days ago, but don't have any history on it. Consistent since i've had it.

can't tell much more at this point.

dp

[RoyGBiv]

3. Hmmm ... screenshot ...

If it's not too much trouble, the screenshot might be helpful.

My first thought after the drivers would be a direct hardware problem, i.e. the video card, possibly overheating or poorly seated in the slow. Is this a new system?

[dweller]

5. used system

and now this is weird. I took a screenshot, had to set up a program to change a bitmap to jpeg so i could move it to my computer and post.

the pic shows a perfectly good shot. But of course on the other comp/monitor it show the lines in it. I'm going to try again.

dp

[RoyGBiv]

6. Read below ...

The inquiry from bemildred is better than mine.

[bemildred]

7. Yours works too.

But I like to do the easy stuff first.

[bemildred]

4. At which resolutions does this occur?

In these sorts of cases I usually start with the idea that I'm driving the video card or monitor beyond it's limits.
The particular question of interest would be how does it work at the standard VESA modes starting at 640x480 and going up to 1280x1024, and perhaps also at 16 and 32 bit color. If you need directions on how to test that, just ask, and provide specs on OS and Monitor.

[dweller]

8. was pretty sure, but checked them all

it's the same at all color and resolutions.

os win2k, dell p780 trinitron flatscreen monitor.

dp

edit: the monitor works fine on my win2k system at 1024 x 768 recommended, and at 1152 x 864 which is where mine runs.

[bemildred]

9. Time to look at the issues Roy raises.

Seating of the card is not a bad guess, a loose monitor cable, things like that.
Try the monitor on a different machine, etc. Fault isolation type things.
Something may be junk now.

[bemildred]

10. You might want to look through the BIOS settings too.

Although that would seem doubtful.

[dweller]

11. so try taking out and reseating card?

i'll see if that helps and check back tomorrow.

it's late, been up too many nites working on puters...

thanks all, will check back later.

dp

[bemildred]

12. Yeah, carefully, you might want to try the card in another box, too. nt

[dweller]

15. i took it out, and reseated

after inspection. Nothing visual, cracks, dirt, rust etc.

carefully cleaned and re-installed.

still there.


dp

[RoyGBiv]

13. Could be a connector ...

As in the VGA output on the video card. Ran across one with something tiny jammed up inside one of the pin slots, and it created weird effects on the screen, only it came off more like static than individual lines.

If there's no warranty on this, I'd try cracking it open and re-seating the card, looking for things like corrosion on the connectors, dust in the card slot, etc. Obviously I'm assuming this is an indepedent card and not built-in video. I don't think that card has its own fan, so if the heatsink is in place it's probably not a heat issue, but heat is one thing that can cause artifacts like that.

The part I'm having trouble reconciling with a hardware only issue is the original description of the problem appearing in open windows, not all across the display. Do you mean if you, say, open a folder, there will be lines in the folder and not outside? Or is it certain programs?

[dweller]

14. here's a pic

i brightened it a little to show the dark bars, although they are as dark as that while the white screen is whiter too, just my camera's problem more than anything else.

Now, in a window, say just opening 'my computer', the top and bottom horizontal bar of the window will be across the screen, and some will shadow from the icons too.

everything is horizontal. The wider the source, the darker and wider the bar is also.

dp

[bemildred]

16. And this does not show when you connect the monitor to another machine ...

The reason I say that is because I usually think this sort of thing is the monitor.
In any case I would think it is hardware, possibly a bad video mode. But it seems that is wrong.

Could you try taking the video card and putting it in another (compatible) machine,
configure all the related bullshit, and see if this still shows? The question would be whether this
card in another machine shows this problem, or something like it.

Could you call up the monitor OSD and degauss it?

What we have so far is:
1.) The monitor works fine connected and configured to another machine/video-card, so it's not the monitor.
2.) The effect shows through all video modes/depths so it's not the settings.
3.) The OS and drivers are all current, so it's (probably) not that sort of thing, because then lot's of
other people would have the problem and it would be fixed.

That leaves the BIOS settings and the video card itself, using an eraser on the the connectors (carefully), examining for dirt, heat, bad fan, loose video cable connection, etc.

And of course one can google around for truly convoluted problems, but how much time is an old system worth?

Maybe Roy has some ideas?

[dweller]

18. i will try the card in another machine

or another card in this one.

would i need any loadable software that may have come with the card? i don't have one for either card that i'm aware of.
hopefully pnp.

one other thing maybe nothing. Was messing around with the display settings, and poking round with appearance, and when you have option for picking out a custom color (text, window border,etc) i can't find white, or what appears to be white is grey.
I even entered the same #'s values from 2 different machines so they matched, and what's bright white on one, is dull grey on the other.

dp

[bemildred]

19. Boot to safe mode first.

See if the problem shows up then.

You might want to do that first (with the original setup) to see what happens before swapping the video card out anyway, if you haven't yet.

And then do that first when you put a card in a new box.

Then, if it looks OK, you might consider getting drivers etc. to try other video modes.

The absence of white sounds wrong, and relevant, but I don't know how to interpret it. I still think the fault isolation is the thing to do, lets figure out what's broken first, then consider how it's broken. it does suggest something with the palette, of what Roy said about bad cable pins or broke hardware of some sort.

[dweller]

20. safe mode

shows a solid black desktop background, and some fainter grey lines where the black was ... i don't remember safe mode on this machine i'm using now having a black background, maybe it does?

i'll check later.

starting a new (real) job and run out of energy earlier :) than i'm used to.

throw out some other advice/ ideas when you can, i'll check back tomorrow.


thanks!

dp

[bemildred]

21. Black background does not sound good.

I spose you could try changing it (the BG color) and see what happens.

We have been through most of the ideas I have. I think probably the video card is broke,
but it could be something to do with the MoBo or BIOS (assuming the other things discussed
are accurate).

I would put a good, known-to-work-OK video card in and see if it works right or not (in safe mode).
If it does it looks like it would be the video card that's broke, and if not, it would look like
it's the BIOS or MoBo that have issues.

[dweller]

24. my good win2k machine boots black too

so i guess that's normal, i hadn't looked at it in awhile in safe mode, so didn't remember it.

i'll keep trying
what could i determine in BIOS? or about the MoBo? i'm pretty much a noob (i guess) so you'll need to 'slain it to me :)


dp

[WhollyHeretic]

25. I would try switching the video cards if you can.

That's still the most likely problem. If it's not that it would be the mother board. The video card would be a lot cheaper and easier.

[bemildred]

26. The black background is a setting.

The default is a pale blue.

Did you try changing it in Safe Mode, to white say, to see if the lines are still there, or to see if anything else looks odd?

I can't really say about BIOS settings, one would have to have access to the machine and preferably the documentation for the MoBo, plus maybe a bit of research on the web, to be sure what the BIOS settings do, and then one could start to tweak things that might be related in some way, or one could install the BIOS default settings on the theory that they ought to work if anything does, but I could not speculate about it in general, and it is not a good thing to frob the BIOS randomly.

In any case that seems like a long shot, you need to make sure it's not just the video card first, by trying a good one in the same slot, etc. and seeing if the original card produces the same effect in another machine, assuming you have the means to do that.

[bemildred]

17. You may just have a bad video card.

And God may be telling you to buy a cheap new one.
If you have any spares you could try putting one
into this box to see if the lines go away.

[Ready4Change]

22. Interesting. My machine recently developed the same symptoms.

Your photo matches my display very well, except I'm running Win98.

I've noticed many whites show up as grey. Some of my greens are VERY green, as if the green gun in the monitor is full on. The display is usable, but pretty annoying. It's been this way for a couple months, and I've just been assuming the monitor was dieing. Maybe not so?

I have undone and reconnected the vid cable, with no improvement.

I'm running an older, 800mhz Athlon CPU, Asus motherboard, old Geforce 256 DDR vid card. I haven't changed anything hardware-wise for over a year, and don't recall having changed anything sw-wise in the time immediately prior to the problem starting.

I've been thinking it's a monitor problem, but haven't yet switched to check, nor reseated the vid card. I'll do that, as well as blow out the dust that's likely collected inside the case.

If that doesn't fix things I may also (carefully) open the monitors case and see if any dust bunnies are romping around in there. (Carefully, as I know there are some condensors in there that have the potential to fry me but good.)

[Ready4Change]

23. Not a monitor problem.

I swapped monitors, and the new one had the same problem. That monitor is now reconnected to it's previous machine and working fine.

I also blew the dust off and reseated the video card, also with no change.

So I'm beginning to think this is software. While I don't RECALL changing anything video connected, I also can't definitively say I changed NO software, and it's possible somthing in there screwed something up.

I'm thinking maybe a recent DirectX change? Maybe a video driver due to updating RealPlayer or Quicktime? I don't recall doing those at the time the problem started, but maybe my memory isn't all it should be.

I do fairly frequent MS Updates. Maybe one of those?

[dweller]

28. if you have any luck

fixing this, pass along the fix :)

i checked in another online forum (searched the symptom) and saw a few similar posts, but no solutions were had there.


dp

[Ready4Change]

30. Certainly will. No luck yet, though.

It's not the monitor, monitor power or data cables, as I've switched those to no effect. So it's something inside the case.

I've reseated all the cards, cleaned out the dust, and ensured all the fans are operating and temps are controlled. Not effect.

It's also not a heat build up thing, as it happens when the machine starts up cold as well as after it's warmed.

A search on the web for similar problems gave some indication that it "might" be a power problem. I'm not sure if that would be the cases power supply or some kind of issue within the video card itself. (Some articles mentioned issues with a video booster?) Moot point, as I don't have a spare vid card nor power supply to do a swap with.

And while I've got a decent electrical tester, I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm not all that versed on how to use it to check out the cases power supply, and I've NO idea what to check on the video card. If anybody has the know-how and wants to give me step by step instructions I'd give that a whirl?

My guess is that it's the video card, something within where it converts the memory cache into a video signal. That would explain why a screen capture doesn't capture the effect. And Nvidia based graphics is something both of our systems have in common. It would be easy enough to check, as a card equivelent to mine is probably like $20 today. But money is a bit tight at the moment, so I'll just put up with the streaks for a while.

[dweller]

32. where are you shopping for cards?

i'm seeing some refurbished cards around that price, but most are double that or more.

dp

[Ready4Change]

33. Pricewatch, some with free shipping.

My real problem there is that my card, although old, was the times super-deluxe model, with video in abilities. Cards available now with video in seem to be starting at around $50.

However, if I didn't want video in, I see lots of cards with better abilities than mine starting around $18. At that point, for games, my tired old CPU and memory would be my systems bottleneck.

For example, go here:

www.pricewatch.com

And search for this string:
GeForce2 MX200 32MB

[dweller]

27. no luck switching cards

b/c this is the only card i have i guess.

i have a P2, P3, and the one having problems is as Dell P4. The card is in a slot the P3/P2 does not have. So no switching that i can see.

hate to buy a pricey card to put in the P4 to see if it will run or not.

i'll keep futzing around with it.

dp

[trotsky]

29. I've only seen this sort of thing happen twice,

and both times it was an old video card that I figure must have failed, because replacing the card worked.

Does this motherboard have an on-board video controller too?

[dweller]

31. not that i can see

nor in what paperwork i've found on it.

agp card only.

i'm going with bad card, just not able to find suitable ($) replacement yet.

dp

[WhollyHeretic]

34. Take a look over at newegg.com

Here's pretty decent one that's nice and inexpensive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121508