Siberians

[Tab]

I'm considering adopting a 4-month old Siberian. He's a rescue, but he wasn't abused (the litter was abandoned or something).

I've never had a Siberian before, although I've had perhaps a dozen or more breeds - from Icelandic Sheepdogs to German Shephards. My ex-wife bred and trained dogs for competition, my current wife was on the board of the Humane Society for some 8 years, and we have 4 dogs at the moment, 2 of which are rescues. I have had, with my ex-wife, up to 9 adult dogs at a time (too much, for me) - the point is that incorporating a new dog isn't necessarily an unknown challenge.

We have one child, a boy, nearly 10 yrs old, who loves animals, and four dogs - a 14-yr old golden who mainly just sleeps, a shephard/rottweiler mix that's pretty much a "dog's dog", a pekingnese with an inferiority complex, and one last dog that's part Border Collie, part schizophrenic.

I've met this Siberian, he's really sweet - I think for social stuff he'd love hanging out with the Border Collie, and for when he wants to be "a dog", he'd love being with the shephard/rottie.

The main thing I've heard about Siberians, other than needing to keep them occupied (which the other dogs will help with), is that they run when given the opportunity. I live in a cul-de-sac, and there's not immediate access to the main road, and we usually like to let the dogs out. How trainable are they, particularly at 4 months, to at least come when they're called, if not actually hang around? Any other Siberian qualities or drawbacks I should know about?

Thanks

- Tab

[ajacobson]

1. I have six Siberians/Sibe mixes

When I was doing Sibe rescue, this is what I would generally tell people looking to adopt:

Know the breed. Know the fact that they have a high energy level. Know that they can become destructive if left unsupervised. They are escape artists-they dig and they climb. They have been bred for 5,000 years to pull. They've been bred to be very independent, so that if the ground under the sled is giving way, they will disobey a command to keep on going, to save the musher's (and their) life. Sibes are pack animals and need lots of interaction. They are small prey-aggressive, so putting kitties and Sibes together is generally not a good idea. This is not a complete list of traits.

Nearly every Sibe owner I know will not let their dogs off-leash if they can get loose. Two of my dogs cannot be off leash in the backyard because they will jump over or dig under the fence.

People would ask me, why do you even like this breed? I would say, Sibes end up in the shelter because people don't know these things when they get the cute puppy. If any of these things are intolerable, don't get a Sibe. If, after understanding these things, you still want a Sibe, then go for it.

Of course, breed characteristics are only one element of a dog's behavior. I know Sibes who have obedience titles. But in those cases, tremendous time and energy went into training.

[Tab]

2. That's helpful

One of our dogs is a Pekingese. Would a Siberian be likely to go after it?

[ajacobson]

3. Possibly. But,

probably not as a puppy. Puppies _generally_ defer to adult dogs even if there is a size difference. Puppies can drive adults crazy but they usually back off if the older dogs disciplines them. An adolescent dog might try something, to move up in pack status. It really depends on the personality of the dog, which is hard to get a sense of, until after the fact.

Here are some book references:
Feeling Outnumbered: How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-Dog Household, by London and McConnell.
The Essential Siberian Husky, edited by Ian Dunbar.
The Power of Positive Dog Training, by Pat Miller.
Siberian Huskies for Dummies, by Diane Morgan. (don't let the title dissuade you, its a good book)

There's lots more, of course, just a sample of what's out there.

[Tab]

4. It'll probably be okay

The Siberian was a real sweetie, shy, in fact.

The Pekingese, who's about 7 yrs old, won't take any shit from anyone. She's happy to confront our Rottweiller/Shephard mix (who is smart enough to ignore her).

So I'm guessing it's probably not a problem.

Even if the Siberian runs off, will it come when you call it? I don't mind if they head out, I just like them to come back when asked.

[ajacobson]

5. If recall is very important to you, then

that is something to really work on in obedience class and practicing at home. Play games where you get the dog to chase you and not the other way around. Don't assume that the dog will come to you automatically.

Siberians I know, mine and others, generally do not recall well outside unfettered. Start off in the house playing hide and seek games (have someone hold the dog, you go hide and then call the dog, make a big deal and heavily reward the dog for finding you) and progressively add more distractions. When outside, practice a lot with a 20 foot long line or in an enclosed area like a dog park. This way, if the dog starts hoofing it, safety is maintained.

[Tab]

6. Yeah, basically if he wanders over to the neighbors

I want to call him back. That's all.

I know how to do obedience training for a recall, but I just wanted to know if the breed was receptive. Two of my dogs, a Border Collie and a Rottweiller/Shephard mix are pretty good on the recall (they're both boys), but the girls, a Pekignese and a Golden, just ignore me. I used to have a Chow that ignored the recall, but other dogs would come bouncing along. It's not that the training is unimportant, but some breeds take to it better than others, and I didn't know where Siberians fell in the scheme of things.

[ajacobson]

7. In my experience, I have zero expectation that a footloose

Siberian will come when called. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised. It all depends on the situation. One of my girls, Sadie would jump the fence and just stand there in the neighbors yard. Another, Saffron, I took winter camping once in a state park. I unhooked her collar to switch to a different line. Before I could take a breath she was down the trail. Calling her had no impact. The only way I caught her was her harness got snagged in some low branches. Saffron is the dog I did obedience with, and would do a decent recall in the ring. In the big wide open, what I had to say wasn't very interesting to her.

Trainability is relative to what the dog's instincts are and if you getting them to do something in line with or against instinct. Getting a retriever to fetch, not too hard. Getting a beagle not to bark, or a bloodhound not to sniff the ground, hard. Siberians are instinctually influenced to run and pull. So heeling and recall are a challenge.

[smurfygirl]

8. I know this post is old but I want to add some things from a sib owner

I let my sibs off leash except for the youngest, which is 15 months. All of my sibs now heel. My experience with them is as follows, small dogs, cats, squirrels, and rabbits are prey. They will take off after them. Two of our sibs will get about ten feet from us and look back, if we are watching they will wait till we say it's okay. We let them run at times, because it's in their nature. They like to forward heel and although some people consider this a no no, Consider them pulling your ass all around and you quickly have mutual respect for their forward heeling.
The trick we learned from years of nasty behavior is simple. Get down, sit, stay, and heel. Make them turnabout with you and practice everyday. By the time they are two they won't leave your side unless allowed (or cats are within reach)

This takes great effort and consistency. But is very achievable. Another thing is always have a food reward in your pocket, Husky's are loyal to the hand that feeds them.
I never let off leash until after about 13 months old. Most husky owners can tell you the difficult 8-13 month stage of life, it's very very trying.
Another tidbit, if your sib runs off never scold it when it returns. express disappointment but quickly move to them going into a sit stay or down stay and reward them...I know traditional trainers are probably freaking at this comment, but how many of them have 4 off lead huskies?

Mutual respect is important. Just remember, sit, stay, heel...in no time your sib will be off lead and you will learn to trust each other.
Also, to cure the need to run off, exercise your Sib daily, these are active dogs, bred to travel 15-25 miles a day.

I hope anyone considering a Sib will take Sib's owners true to heart, they are a very difficult breed and most people have no idea how much maintenance they can be. I'm beginning to hate these snow dog type movies, since every time they come out we end up rescuing more and more Sibs who have been given up on.