booster problems

[newsguyatl]

i took jesse to the vet yesterday to get his second set of boosters. he was unusually affectionate towards me while we were there, and just charmed the socks off the vet and her assistant.

so he gets the shot, some heartworm meds, etc. and we're off... no kind of warning from the vet at all.

when we get home, he immediately falls asleep, which i didn't think much of, i knew he'd had a long day.

fast forward to last night, when i go to pick him up and he's just yelping in pain... crying like i never knew a cat could cry. he's sore right where the shot went in -- and can't even stand for me to hold him.

i woke up this morning hoping he'd be better and he's not. still extremely sore and very quiet. he's even swollen where the shot went in!!! he's lying in the window right now, something he never does.

i've called the vet's office and no one has returned my calls yet. i'm wondering if she gave him the wrong injection?! or too strong a dosage?!?

has anyone else had bad experiences with boosters?





jesse happy before the vet yesterday:





home a couple hours later:

[demnan]

1. Lily once had a swelling due to an injection

but she was better in a few days and the vet gave antibiotics. Take the cat back to the vet immediately. Some cats just have sensitivity to injections.

[newsguyatl]

2. yeh, i guess i'll have to do that

because they're still not answering the phone or returning my calls.

when lily had swelling, how did you know to take her back to the vet? in other words, was she in a great deal of pain?

here's jesse a second ago still in the window... you can tell he feels like shit:

[regnaD kciN]

3. Do you have a 24-hour animal hospital in your area?

It's good to have one for when your cat is sick on a weekend and you can't get to your regular vet for a couple of days.

I hope Jesse's feeling better...he's one of the most stunning Siamese kittens I've seen. Is he a traditional?

[newsguyatl]

8. so far as i know... thanks for the compliment

believe it or not, he was a shelter cat that i adopted... this girl and i about fought over him the day i adopted him -- from the moment i saw him, i knew i had to have him.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. Please keep us posted as to how Jesse is doing. Hope you can

find an emergency vet near you.

There can be reactions to shots.

If you are not going to let them outside, minimize the amount of vaccinations you give them..

[newsguyatl]

9. well i called the vet

they said to put warm compresses on it -- but i doubt that'll work... they say it's common in cats to get the swelling and soreness.

i sure hope it's common, because jesse is swollen to high hell at the moment. and i'm not too happy about it.

he's still yelping when i hold him -- and his personality has changed 180...

poor guy, and he was in such a wonderful mood yesterday, and now he feels like utter shit.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. I would take him to a vet..... See If he has a fever, and if some other

treatment might make him more comfortable and avoid further complications.

Where did Jesse get his shots. See my post at the bottom of this thread.

[BrklynLiberal]

5. Here a thread about a class action suit that is

beng started about over vaccination in pets.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=243x7404

[newsguyatl]

6. wow, should i not even bother

getting either of them vaccinated again?

at this point, i'm tempted to go that route.

[BrklynLiberal]

11. I'll be honest with you..my cats do not go out..and I do not have them

vaccinated.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. more info

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm


http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/feline.htm

http://www.wholisticanimal.com/petvaccinations.html
one opinion:

2. Kittens should only be vaccinated for Panleukopenia and not before three months of age. All other vaccinations should be avoided. One vaccine is sufficient.

3. Puppies and kittens can be given homeopathic nosodes beginning at three weeks of age, if there is a potential for exposure to Distemper, Parvovirus or Panleukopenia These nosodes can be used until vaccinations are given or continued periodically for the first year of life, if vaccinations are not given.

4. Booster vaccinations are completely unnecessary. Studies are now showing that these vaccinations are effective for many years and most probably for life. Vaccinated animals do not need any boosters. Homeopathic nosodes can be given periodically if you are concerned or if you think your animals live a high risk, life style.

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Feline Vaccinations

Based on scientific studies, all cats don't need all vaccines.

Discuss with your veterinarian the fact that feline vaccines have been associated with an aggressive cancer known as "Vaccine Associated Sarcoma."

The American Association of Feline Practitioners recommend the following feline vaccination protocols:

Rabies administered in the right rear leg as distally as possible.

FeLV administered in the left rear leg as distally as possible.

FVRCP or "Upper Respiratory" administered as low as possible over the right shoulder (or given intranasally).

No injection, vaccine or otherwise should ever be administered in the scruff (between the shoulder blades) of the cat's neck.

Discuss with your veterinarian the possibility of using an intranasal or adjuvant free vaccine, thereby reducing the risk of vaccine associated sarcomas.

Know that, over the years feline vaccines have done much more good than harm, but that some vaccine related side effects can be deadly.

Empower yourself with knowledge so that you can work together with your veterinarian towards developing the best vaccination plan to fit the "individual" needs of your furry family and reduce the risk of post vaccination sarcomas.

For more information concerning the benefits, risks and facts relating to feline vaccinations, please visit us on the web at Sylvia's Journey of New Hope.

As a cat guardian, you are totally responsible for the health of your pet. Vaccinations can improve the speed and effectiveness of a cat's immune response to a respective disease or infection by stimulating it through exposure to an organism before the cat meets it for real. With proper care, attention and vaccination education on your behalf, your pet will provide you with a lifetime of joy and pleasure.

Have a veterinarian examine your cat at least once a year, semi-annually if your cat is a "senior citizen" - 10 years of age or older, and keep all required vaccinations up to date. This will keep your cat disease and infection free.


Vaccinations for Cats and Kittens

+ 6 weeks: Temporary vaccination for kittens that did that did not nurse from their mother during the first hours after birth or kittens from a mother that is not current on her vaccinations

+ 8 weeks: FVRCP* - Panleukopenia, Rhinotracheitis, Calcivirus, and Chlamydia

+ 12 weeks: FVRCP Booster

+ 16 weeks: FeLV - Feline Leukemia and FVRCP Booster (if recommended)

+ 18 weeks: FeLV Booster

+ 6 months: Rabies

+ 14 months: FVRCP (Boostered annually from this date) and FeLV (Boostered annually from this date)

+ 18 months: Rabies (Boostered every 1-3 years from this date depending on local vaccination requirements)


*The first FVRCP vaccination must be boostered after 3-4 weeks to insure maximum levels of immunity in your cat. Your vet may also recommend an additional booster vaccination at 15-16 weeks of age.


Other Feline Vaccinations

FIP - Feline Infectious Peritonitis

Administered in drops intranasally:

* 16 weeks: first administration
* 19 weeks: booster
* 14 months: booster (boostered annually from this date)


Additional Information

The FVRCP, FeLV, and Rabies vaccinations are given as injections. These injections were once usually given in the loose skin at the scruff of the cat's neck. Some cats developed a small lump at the injection site several weeks following the injection. This lump is a reaction to the carrier agent solution in the vaccines. Normally the lump would subside within a few weeks and should only raise concern if it lasts considerably longer than this. Most vets no longer vaccinate in the scruff area.

Let your vet know if any lump appears that does not seem to go away several weeks after it appears. Always contact your vet if your cat displays any other adverse reactions to the vaccinations he has been given.

Your vet or a veterinary technician should give you a special record card containing details of any vaccinations that have been administered to your cat. Keep this in a safe place with your cat's other medical records, and expect to be asked to produce it when you book him into a boarding kennel or at any time by your vet.

Obvious reactions to vaccinations are unusual, but some cats may be a little quieter than normal for 24 hours. If you think that your cat has reacted badly to a vaccination, contact your vet immediately.

Vaccinations do not give guaranteed protection from the major infectious diseases, but it is rare for a cat not to respond as expected of them.

The vaccination needs of cats may vary from area to area, so discuss your cat's needs with your vet.

Page URL: http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/vacinations.html

[newsguyatl]

13. you've got to be friggin KIDDING me!!!

No injection, vaccine or otherwise should ever be administered in the scruff (between the shoulder blades) of the cat's neck.

goddamnit, that's exactly where she gave him the shot... and he's swollen like you wouldn't believe... i'll try to get a picture of it to post if i can...


i'm getting madder and madder :mad: :mad: :mad:

[BrklynLiberal]

14. Is there an emergency vet or animal hospital near you...?

If your vet called you, can you get Jesse over there? Better safe than sorry....
It just does not seem that warm compresses will be enough.

I just did a google on "emergency veterinarians, atlanta" and got these hits. Are they near you?


Buckhead Animal Clinic
[phone]
[phone]
1911 Piedmont Cir NE
Atlanta, GA 30324
4.3 mi N- Directions

Animal Emergency Center of Sandy Springs
[phone]
228 Sandy Springs pl NE
Atlanta, GA 30328
12 mi N- Directions

Blankenship, Emmett, DVM -
Animal Emergency Clinic Address: 228 Sandy
Springs Pl NE Ste B, Atlanta, GA 30328
Phone: [phone]

[newsguyatl]

16. i'm in atlanta, so i'm sure there is one, i'll check around

so here, i just took these pics... you can see why i'm so LIVID right now. :mad:

my poor guy shouldn't have to be going through this because of an incompetent vet!

the pics aren't the best, but look at the swollen ridge where is shoulder blade is -- that's NOT his shoulder blade, that's an infection:



here's a closer view -- you can see just how raised it is:


here are big bro and little bro resting peacefully earlier today:

[BrklynLiberal]

17. I can see why you are so pissed. I would be too!

I listed a few hits for emergency vets in my previous post.
I would definitely take Jesse to a vet and see if there is something that can be done for him. I do not think that hot compresses are enough.

Please keep us posted.

Poooor Baby...

If you have some Rescue Remedy in the house, it might make him a bit more comfortable in the meantime. it is not medicine..just a calmative.

[newsguyatl]

18. well i just got off the phone with

an emergency vet clinic in buckhead (area nearby) --

the vet there said to keep up with the warm compresses and to give him benadryl -- and to see if that helped...

they said no vet should have given him a booster where they did, but that swelling is very common.

so i'm gonna go get some benadryl and see if that at least helps with the pain...

thanks for all the concern guys!!!! it really means a LOT!

i'll keep you updated!

[BrklynLiberal]

19. At least the bendryl will let him sleep... Poor baby

I hope this helps.
PLEASE keep us posted.
Did they say when/if you should being him for a look/see?

EDIT: Get the children's benedryl..liquid..with a syringe kind of sppon. Did he tell you how much to give him?

[newsguyatl]

20. said since jesse is

3 pounds to give him 3 mL(s) 1 mL per pound.

they said the swelling should be gone by now, but sometimes it persists, and just to watch it in the next day or two... i'll keep a close eye on it -- if it gets ANY worse by tomorrow, i'll take him to a clinic.

right now, he seems to have a little more energy... he and nikko are playing, though when nikko touches that spot on him, he just yelps and yelps... poor nikko, he's as confused as he can be!

[BrklynLiberal]

21. Glad to hear there is some improvement..however minimal.

[newsguyatl]

22. wow, the compresses really seem to be working

and jesse seems to understand that they are because he's unusually calm and still while they're on him...

i guess the warmness feels good, too.

after a few compresses, i touched the spot, and just a slight peep out of him, nothing like before.

[BrklynLiberal]

23. He looks so cute with the compress sitting on him..like he is wearing a

sweat shirt. He sure looks like he is feeling better. His eyes are open a bit more.

[MissHoneychurch]

15. how is your little boy doing?

any news?

[BrklynLiberal]

24. How is the little guy doing today?

[Eurobabe]

25. Poor little darlin, he's so cute, how's he feeling today?

Sorry to hear about Jesse's trauma with the boosters, I have to take my gingers in on Thurs., will discuss beforehand about additional shots because these guyz are going to be strictly indoors like my other two cats.

Will eliminate any that are not needed. Thanks for the heads up, sorry your lil'guy had to go through this. Hope he is feeling better today.

-48

[newsguyatl]

26. thanks all for the concern!!!

you guys are amazing...

48percenter --> PLEASE make sure your vet DOESN'T adminster the shot between the shoulder blades... trust me, you DON'T want those cute kitties going through what jesse did... the yelping is as displeasing as sounds come...

i'm happy to report that jesse is doing much much better today... i still feel a little of the swelling, but he seems to be in no pain at all... i'm rubbing pretty briskly there and it doesn't seem to bother him...

he told me to tell you all he really appreciates the concern for him... he says once he gets a little more beauty sleep today, he'll allow me to take a picture to show you ;-)

[newsguyatl]

27. jesse much better

and as you can see.... in VERY good hands (and legs):

[demnan]

28. That's good to know

I would still watch it though. It seems to be behaving like a puncture wound. I've treated many cats in years back for those and antibiotics are usually in order.

I used to warm compress my cats too when they had puncture wounds (years ago when I had outdoor cats) They know that you are trying to help them.

[BrklynLiberal]

29. That is good news. So glad the little fella is doing better. Those are

such amazing pictures. Who would have ever guessed that Nikko would have turned out to be such a nurturing big brother? Jesse sure seems to be enjoying the TLC.
These are simply priceless photos. Can't stop smiling when I look at them.
Thanks so much for sharing them..and do keep us posted on his progress.

[regnaD kciN]

30. Whew!

It's nice to see non-related felines bonding.

And I still find it hard to believe that Jesse was found in a shelter. Otherwise, I would have asked you which cattery it was, for my own future reference.

[newsguyatl]

31. yeh, i'm a lucky guy

he's gorgeous -- and has the personality to match.

:-)

[demnan]

32. I hope little Jesse is feeling better today.

:hi:

[newsguyatl]

34. he is thanks,

turned into a little terror again...

came home and he'd destroyed my orchid.

with that little face like, "what did i do wrong?"

[BrklynLiberal]

38. So very glad he is back to his normal impish self. Just love that

"WHAT!? What!?" look on his face. He is just adorable.

[Suziq]

43. What a Face!

I always tell my abys Moe and Maggie that they are the most beautiful kitties in the world, but . . .

Jesse is the exception - he is just too cute! I love those eyes.



:hippie:

[newsguyatl]

44. why thanks!!

we'd love to see moe and maggie!

[Suziq]

47. Here are Maggie and Moe

This is Maggie - tired of me taking her picture



This is her brother Moe giving me "face"


They are 11 years old and really are brother and sister. Maggie is a ruddy aby and Moe is a red. Moe was the runt of the litter. He weighs a little over 5 lbs.




:hippie:

[newsguyatl]

48. beautiful!

are they as curious as i read about abys being? ((curious meaning, into everything))

moe almost looks more like a singapura... are you familiar with those?

[Lorien]

33. What adorable pics!

I'm so glad the little guy pulled through OK. :loveya:

[Eurobabe]

36. Glad to hear Jesse is back in form, he is just

precious, the most beautiful little face. They are two peas in a pod now. Great photos. :)

[Beaverhausen]

35. I have never had a cat get swelling from an injection

So glad he is getting better. God he is so cute...the two of them make such a beautiful pair!

Mine get their shots in their rumps.

My older cat has a "lump" in the area where she gets injections that one vet tried to tell me was a tumor. Fortunately the good vet at that practice said "no it's just a scar they can get at injection sites." I only allow her to see my cats now.

My younger cat hasn't had any vaccines since she was a kitten. She never goes out and seems to be in perfect health.

[newsguyatl]

37. well, see that's the thing

many are saying that feline vaccines cause tumors... check out some of the posts from brklynliberal in this thread... they're scary as hell...

i don't think i'm going to give jesse anymore vaccines... seems with him being just an indoor cat, it's not worth the risk.

[CC]

39. I can understand your

worrying about vaccines. If I could suggest, one, find a vet you trust. Two talk to them about over vaccination. Three ask them if they will do a titter test before giving any vaccinations. I understand the scare you just had with Jesse and understand he is to be an in door cat. Unfortunately even in door cats escape sometimes. At the minimum keep up with the rabies vaccine according to state guidelines. The chances of side effects are so much less that what happens should he run outside or he scratch or bite a friend/ acquaintance. (Here after the first year series it is every 3 years) I would suggest a new vet though because he did not return your calls. The least he should of done was call you and he should of at least seen Jesse. With my menagerie I have a cat that has allergic reactions to vaccines and a couple ferrets that do. They only get one shot at a time with benedryl given before hand and we stay at the vets for an hour after they are given shots. For the cats and dogs my vets will titter test before every vaccine except rabies, they get it every three years regardless because of the law here. They all had their first year series. The ferrets only got the first year series and are not allowed near strangers or anyone I do not trust. Anyway hope this helps some.

[newsguyatl]

40. can you expound on what

a titter test is?

[CC]

41. It is a test

for antibodies. If the animal has enough antibodies in their system they do not need a booster. My vet keeps records of the numbers as proof they are not needed. That is about all I understand of it being a non vet or medical person. There isn't a titer test for ferrets yet therefore they are limited to who I will allow contact with even if they have never ever bit a person.
It would help if I spelled it right...it is titer.


Edited to add- I have been reading about Jesse all along and love your pictures.

[newsguyatl]

42. thanks for the info

i'll check in to that...

and thanks for the compliment on the pics! i definitely enjoy being a new dad, if you couldn't tell :D

[BrklynLiberal]

45. Info on titers. A good vet should have no problem with these

http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/1998/4-98.htm

Monitoring Serum Antibody Titers

Except where vaccination is required by law, animals that previously experienced an adverse reaction to vaccination or are at genetic or physiological risk for such reactions can have serum antibody titers measured annually instead of revaccination. Recently, this approach has been recommended more generally to assess the adequacy of immunity during the interval between routine adult booster vaccinations, in accordance with the policy advisory of giving them every three years to cats and dogs.

As polyvalent vaccines contain antigens other than the clinically important infectious disease agents, some may be unnecessary,and their use may increase the risk of adverse reactions. With Leptospira bacterins, the clinically important serovars are not contained in the currently licensed products, and the antibodies they elicit last only a few months. There have been very few clinical cases of infectious canine hepatitis from adenovirus-1 infection, although the standard polyvalent vaccines all contain adenovirus-2 to afford cross-protection. Other vaccine components, such as that for Lyme disease, may not be needed, because the disease is limited to certain geographical areas. Use of feline leukemia (FeLV) vaccines could be reserved for cats that live mostly outdoors or live both indoors and outdoors, and for catteries where new animals are introduced on a regular basis, as their efficacy is modest and they have been implicated along with rabies vaccine in producing injection-site fibrosarcomas. Overvaccination may occur with the varying state regulatory policies for rabies vaccination. As USDA licensed rabies vaccines have a 3 year duration, there is little justification for some individual states to insist on annual revaccination.

The overall risk-benefit ratio of using multiple antigen vaccines given simultaneously and repeatedly should be reexamined, although the luxury of asking such questions today is afforded only because the risk of disease has been effectively reduced by the widespread use of vaccination programs.

Vaccine Antibody Serology

Measurement of vaccine antibody titers uses several techniques: Hemmagglutination inhibition (HI); serum neutralization (SN) or viral neutralization (VN); and indirect immunofluorescent antibody (IFA). Antech Diagnostics currently uses the IFA methodology for canine distemper virus (CDV) and canine parvovirus (CPV) antibody titers. An adequate vaccine immune response for both viruses is >= 1:5. Our methodology has been evaluated in 2 separate studies with paired samples (n=16) sent to the Cornell Diagnostic Laboratory. All samples having IFA titers >= 1:5 had parallel HI titers for CPV of >= 1:80 and CDV of >= 1:16, which is considered to represent substantial immunity.

[BrklynLiberal]

46. more info..

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/PANLEUK.HTM

What you may appreciate knowing is that many years ago, a highly regarded researcher, Fred W. Scott, DVM, Ph.D., Cornell University, said that he has "seen protective titers for feline panleukopenia (Feline Distemper) in 100% of the cats he has tested for 7 years following vaccination (they have not been re-vaccinated in that period of time)".

http://www.naturalholistic.com/handouts/vaccines_7year.htm

Long-term immunity in cats vaccinated with an inactivated trivalent vaccine
Fred W. Scott, DVM, PhD, and Cordell M. Geissinger, BS

Objective—To evaluate duration of immunity in cats vaccinated with an inactivated vaccine of feline panleukopenia virus (FPV), feline herpesvirus (FHV), and feline calicivirus (FCV).

Animals— 17 cats.

Procedure—Immunity of 9 vaccinated and 8 unvaccinated cats (of an original 15 vaccinated and 17 unvaccinated cats) was challenged 7.5 years after vaccination. Specific-pathogen-free (SPF) cats were vaccinated at 8 and 12 weeks old and housed in isolation facilities. Offspring of vaccinated cats served as unvaccinated contact control cats. Virus neutralization tests were used to determine antibody titers yearly. Clinical responses were recorded, and titers were determined weekly after viral challenge.

Results—Control cats remained free of antibodies against FPV, FHV, and FCV and did not have infection before viral challenge. Vaccinated cats had high FPV titers throughout the study and solid protection against virulent FPV 7.5 years after vaccination. Vaccinated cats were seropositive against FHV and FCV for 3 to 4 years after vaccination, with gradually declining titers. Vaccinated cats were protected partially against viral challenge with virulent FHV. Relative efficacy of the vaccine, on the basis of reduction of clinical signs of disease, was 52%. Results were similar after FCV challenge, with relative efficacy of 63%. Vaccination did not prevent local mild infection or shedding of FHV or FCV.

Conclusions—Duration of immunity after vaccination with an inactivated, adjuvanted vaccine was > 7 years. Protection against FPV was better than for FHV and FCV.

Clinical Implications—Persistence of antibody titers against all 3 viruses for > 3 years supports recommendations that cats may be revaccinated against FPV-FHV-FCV at 3-year intervals. (Am J Vet Res 1999; 60:652 658)

[newsguyatl]

49. excellent info!

thanks for this!!

i'm definitely bookmarking this thread