It's a sad day when a person can't even enjoy a conversation with those

[Blue_Roses]

who "supposedly" voted for the same President in 2008.

I just left General Discussion and GD-Presidency and talk about gloom and doom. Not only do I feel like I'm suffocating in toxicity, I'm now seriously depressed. Who are those people and what have they done with the DU I used to know? :shrug:

We don't have cable or the internet at home anymore, so the "news" is something I usually read here or locally through our library. I find that I am much more energized and not as angry. I'm sure we will get "connected" again soon, especially with my kids needing the internet for school, but for now, maybe I just need to depend on this group to tell me if the world has officially gone mad.

I'm seriously thankful for this group:grouphug:

[JanusAscending]

1. Same here...it's becoming a very angry, depressed

world out there! The less news I watch, the better I feel, but I HATE being an OSTRICH !!!! It makes me very angry that I can't even go to DU GD anymore. Like you said...thank God for this group. It's like a little oasis in the mighty desert. LUV YOU ALL!!:grouphug:

[OneGrassRoot]

2. Things are certainly fractured....

no doubt about it. Many different viewpoints for many different reasons. It's not a good vibe "out there" at all. ;)

I don't think the world has collapsed...lol...not yet.

I've been knee-deep in reading and following the news today, so I need to retreat as well. Maybe glancing at the Greatest Threads just to stay quasi-informed is the way to go for a few days. I may try that.

I'm thankful for this group as well.

:hug:

[Blue_Roses]

3. the thing is...

I've been here --at DU--since 2002. In that time, we had Bush so the anger was justified, but "this" --whatever it is called out there in GD--reeks of something different. Chaos being my first thought. How easy it is to get derailed when everything is in chaos. It's kind of like that old story with everyone running around screaming, "the sky is falling in" scenario.

It's easy to get drawn in with the strong emotions. That's when deception smiles, unfortunately. I am trying to learn to stop being so "reactionary" and be more observant. It's very hard to do at times, but knowing the whole truth before going off "half-cocked" goes a long way to maintaining my sanity!:D

[OneGrassRoot]

4. Yes....

Today I've really been trying to follow the most prolific posters, especially those I don't readily recognize.

My impression is that there are quite a few in the main forums with agendas beyond simply being informed and/or activist citizens. There's an awful lot of shit stirrin' going on with no apparent goal beyond shit stirrin'. Don't get me wrong, I think the anger and frustration most definitely have a place, and progress can come from discussing it. My favorite threads are those with actual information -- information being shared by people with competing viewpoints, and done respectfully. Sometimes interpretation and perception are everything.

Sadly, those threads are rare.

But again, my impression is that there are disruptors in the mix fomenting this toxic atmosphere, on all sides. That IS their goal.

It's awfully intense though, and it's easy to get pulled in, especially when we're confused and/or scared and/or angry.

Then I remember to step back and try to get a feel for the intentions involved...my impression of it, that is. That helps me maintain a sense of balance amidst the chaos.

:)

[SeattleGirl]

5. I don't even recognize GD and GDP any more.

They used to be places where I could go and get stories the M$M refused to carry, or would warp beyond recognition if they DID carry them. Now, they are both cesspools, IMHO. People are out of control, and if someone with a voice of reason dares to post something there, they are torn limb from limb. It's very sad and disturbing to me, so I am going there less and less frequently. The hatred and darkness is just overwhelming to me.

I chose instead to spend time in the smaller forums like this one and the Barack Obama forum. They are much more sane, and have a lot more light in them.

I too am seriously thankful for this group. :grouphug:

[get the red out]

17. Me too!

I wandered into the Barack Obama forum yesterday and found it's tone a relief. I added it to my "forums" list with ASAH, the feminist forum, and one other common interest forum.

Forums are such relief. I would be completely off the internet like I am TV and radio right now if it weren't for the forums at DU, so I have to be grateful to DU for providing them. They are well worth the small donation.

[southerncrone]

6. GD is like a bunch of angry kids who aren't getting their way.

Let me preface this by saying: I'm an old lady, so this colors my perception of things. And there are some exceptions to my observation.

But I find those who are too young to remember Vietnam, don't seem to have the ability to carry on a rational, meaningful conversation. Attacking & yelling is their form of communication. This is especially true of those under 35. Makes me wonder what our Congress will be like in another 10 years.
They know nothing but the antagonistic approach....not working things out in a peaceful manner. It scares me.

I'm not particularly happy w/health care, Afganistan, etc., but the fact is--we elected these "representatives" & now must live with what they decide. Simple as that. We can write or email, but bottom-line....they will do as they please.

ASAH is truly a refuge. I appreciate all of you here. :grouphug:

[lildreamer316]

7. Hm.I understand the frustrations on this thread, BUT

I personally see this as a time to stay steady and shine our light, even in those dark places. What are 'light-workers' for if not to do so?

I'm certainly not saying to stay embroiled in something that feels extremely negative or toxic, but this is an opportunity for us as a nation and as humans to realize that the hope and change need to come from within our individual selves - not to try and find it from a leader.

The veil truly has been stripped away - rejoice! Now everyone can see that the pretense of something or someone other than your self 'saving' you is just that - illusion. Now the work of turning to each other; rebuilding family and community; can begin.

I admit I've been watching with utter fascination. It's interesting to see how people are responding to the veil lifting. Of course it's going to be chaotic and there will be people trying very hard to either support their illusions, or to negatively influence those who are coming to realize their truths. Using discernment is key, and this is a great test of many people to see if they can use their intuition to realize what they should be giving their attention to and what they should not.

However, as my first sentence says, I'm not sure hiding away is the best solution. Of course if you don't feel that venturing into these areas (or any areas with this 'discussion' going on) is in any way healthy for you, you should stay out - but as Sting says:

"This ain't no time for doubting your power
This ain't no time for hiding your care
You're climbing down from an ivory tower
You've got a stake in the world we ought to share

You see the stars are moving so slowly
But still the earth is moving so fast
Can't you see the moon is so lonely
She's still trapped in the pain of the past

This is the time of the worlds colliding
This is the time of kingdoms falling
This is the time of the worlds dividing
Time to heed your call"


It's up to you...I'm just saying that out of chaos comes a dancing star, to paraphrase someone I read somewhere. This is a case where the exposure of Dark is functioning to serve us well, and to point us in the right direction. Don't be afraid of it! Love, not fear. I'm trying to remember that every day.

[SeattleGirl]

8. I hear what you're saying.

But I also have to say that it's extremely hard sometimes to look into the light, to see things from that perspective.

I have to admit that sometimes I have hateful, violent thoughts about some of the things I see posted in GD and GDP.

So today, I changed my usual routine, and did NOT look at those sites, nor did I listen to talk radio much.

It was better for me.

But damn! I miss the days when I could look in GD or GDP and find actual, factual stories instead of irrational vitriol being spewed all over the place. :cry:

[OneGrassRoot]

10. Beautifully said!

:applause:

:grouphug:

[OneGrassRoot]

12. This may be the only thing I read today. :)

I got behind with work yesterday as I got absorbed in the goings-on here at DU and out in the world.

It gave me chills, too, lildreamer. Shit, I'll just print it off and keep looking at it as a touchstone throughout the day.

I came back to say that I'm also noticing "lightworkers" REALLY feeling the darkness now, and retreating to gather their strength. People I've never known to do that in the decade I've known them.

This is one of the few times I'm witnessing this all around, but I feel like I'm having an out-of-body experience or something. Just observing. That's an accomplishment for this empath. ;)

Sending hugs to you and everyone today!

:grouphug:

[Why Syzygy]

11. That's beautiful, lildreamer.

Truly awesome. Maybe this attitude is what all the dark days give us for our preparation.

Gave me chills, girl.

[mysticalchick]

16. This is beautiful, lildreamer!

As I was reading your post, I kept thinking YES YES YES! Your words feel so right on to me. It *is* a mess out there and I suspect it's part of the shift we are undergoing as a collective soul. I can't take the energies of GD much at all and so try to stay out of there. Mostly, I scan stuff on a couple different sites just to get a flavor of what's going on. If I am moved to offer something, I follow that.

Beautiful (and apt) lyrics from Sting.

"Love NOT fear." Thank you for the reminder.

[Blue_Roses]

31. well said...

thank-you! :)

When I'm feeling my weakest is when it really affects me. I have to center myself and ask what is going on with me first, then I can go to what the source of the problem is. However, deception rears it's ugly head quick so the truth of what I know, has to be pounded in stone in my mind and soul to fight. It's my shield of protection.

[liberalmuse]

34. Awesome!

I love this! I had put a signature on that I later took off because those who are in the 'I hate everything about Obama' mode would take it the wrong way. It expresses what you've just said (in my crass way), but I came to the conclusion that you've so beautifully stated after I was beyond disillusioned and frustrated. When people say, 'This isn't the change I've been waiting for', they are sealing their own doom. You can't wait for change to happen or for someone else to fix things, you have to make it happen!

[elleng]

9. Here's a 'happy' story I just shared:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/16/AR2009121604240.html?hpid=artslot

:hug:

[japple]

23. That IS a happy story. It warmed the cockles of my heart. Thanks

for posting it here.

[dbt]

13. Talk Radio did this.

From its inception, it prospered by tapping into the frustration of its audience. It whined, it railed, it thumped its chest at the evils of librulism. Its listeners, energized that somebody was finally on their side, began to whine and rail and thump their chests. By 1990, we had a substantial population of strutting, grunting, posturing apes who were mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore. Never mind that the majority of them didn't know exactly what it was, but they were sure agin' it.

It didn't take long at all for Talk Radio to influence the Alleged TV News. Why deal with the facts any longer when it's so easy to have the audience frothing mad and chest-thumping? Besides which, it delivers more eyeballs to advertisers. Yep, there's Big Money to be made when people fight--because even a priest will stop to watch a good fight.

And so, Talk Radio has now become Talk Internet. When people go somewhere to fight and to be as uncivilized as possible, it's good for traffic. Them old clicks just come pouring in. It's toxic--but it's so good for the ratings. It's Bread And Circuses, and real blood is spilled only rarely.

Yes, Blue_Roses, the world has gone officially, barking, foaming-at-every-orifice mad--but it's Good For Business. Thank Goddess for this little corner of the world where the beings are peaceful!

[get the red out]

14. You are absolutely right

I have been saying this for so long! Talk radio dictates so much of our society now, we permit the most horrendous hate and lies to be spewed across the airwaves that we only see each other as enemies, not neighbors. This has gone from the Republicans and Democrats seeing opposing parties as "the other" to each party seeing its own as "the other" whenever there is disagreement.

I wish this country would look around at what we are doing, and the cause. I believe completely that Talk Radio has gotten us where we are right now in this country, madness.

All I want to do is come to ASAH and a few other groups on DU, avoid the news on TV and radio, and just pray, meditate, and knit. There is absolutely nothing else I can do about this situation except spread what light I can, and to do that I have to take care of my own emotional and spiritual condition.

[dbt]

15. And so are you!

"Pray, meditate and knit." That will do more for this world than a quadrillion keystrokes!

[mother earth]

18. Even Buddhists monks say enough from time to time, lest

we forget the carnage (Burma) against their uprising...people are upset. It's like the (see dailyKos) Jane Hamsher's article states, the corporations are manipulating everything, our likes, dislikes, triggers, they've bought those they needed to get what they want. We are witnessing the upheaval of the corporate completion of the takeover.

I still have a hard time feeling the way to go is to ignore, we've done that forever, that's what got us into this, apathy and ignorance. We were lulled into believing and sleeping, and now we finally get it. I still think it's time to do the opposite, to wake up and organize, just like that article states, we are fools to believe it's ok to let our power be drained.

Again, I'm committing a ASAH faux pas, so I'll say goodbye. It doesn't work for me any more, and sadly all of this is going to get worst because nobody will do anything until it crashes and burns, so it will, and it is. We can end the madness just be taking back our power, but that's what we are ignoring to our folly.

Goodbye, fellow ASAH DU'ers. It has been a really nice group, but the fire is dwindling.

IHAD, you truly are a Dream, I will miss you the most, but lately I'm a thread killer.

Leaving you with light and love and saying goodnight & goodbye. :hi:

[I Have A Dream]

19. ...

:loveya:

:cry:

I completely understand and relate, my friend.

[OneGrassRoot]

20. ...

:hug:

Can we not be revolutionary and work for change, as well as loving and respectful?

I hope so, because that's how I feel. I could be sadly mistaken...lol...but while this is a sanctuary and I don't intend to get into intense discussions about actions here -- rather, this is where I can help regain focus about intent, choosing love over fear, etc. -- I can embody that "out there" as much as possible.

I hope it doesn't have to be an either/or situation, and I haven't looked upon you as a thread killer, mother earth. :)

I most certainly respect your decision, however, and send you and yours many hugs and blessings.

:grouphug:

[get the red out]

21. Media orchestration

I am at a point where I FULLY believe that the media has orchestrated complete chaos and they now have all sides behaving EXACTLY as they want them too. They get all the attention by creating chaos, by telling us all to hate each other. When I look at how artfully both the Democratic and Republican parties have been split apart and are now going after their own I realize that this chaos is a media creation. And I mean the CHAOS not disagreements. We have no political system at this point, the first order of business was to make the Democrats and Republicans despise one another and not just be political adversaries, next has been to split those groups into pieces that hate one another. Now they can reap the rewards of drawing all us raging people from one camp to the next, one show to the next, until we know nothing EXCEPT our rage.

[OneGrassRoot]

22. I agree....

I've felt for a decade that the essential loss of a "free press" is at the heart of the problem, as people are so easily persuaded and "see and hear" what they (or the ego?) wants to "see and hear." It's easy to appeal to the fear and confusion within, and those in charge use the corporate media to manipulate that masterfully.

I think you and I saw the same KOS post, by a marketing person ("fool" was in the title"?_ -- excellent article, laying all this out.

I was wondering if an alternate media can somehow gain a foothold in this new age of the Internet. I know there are many alternate opinions, but it's all so fractured and myopic, IMHO. I'd love an online network with many different approaches: political, spiritual, social. And perhaps with a direct rebuttal of lies told each day in M$M.

I hear you though. I hear you.

:hug:

[MorningGlow]

24. I'm torn on this

I used to work in the media (albeit a local outlet), and I can say with confidence that the people who populate the many lower-rung positions in media aren't smart enough or ambitious enough to alter the course of America's history. Because their staffs and their budgets have been gutted, their main goal is to get the news out as quickly and cheaply as possible, and that damns them to turning into lazy SOBs. I've watched news producers get an e-mailed or faxed press release and turn around and use it as a story, verbatim, without any sort of other coverage (getting another point of view, etc.) Because it was quick, easy, and cheap.

HOWEVER, I'm talking about the footsoldiers--the local TV news and newspaper outlets. I exclude Murdoch and Faux Nooz and all the other 24-hour cable dreck--they are not the media as we know it, and they don't produce news. They produce propaganda, pure and simple, and they thrive on sensationalism. They are the ones who drive the points of view of this country; they are the ones who prey on those with weak minds and fill their empty heads with whatever they want (or, in the case of the Bush administration, whatever BushCo wanted--let's not forget they had a direct fax line to Faux to deliver the day's "talking points").

So I will not despise my local newscasters and newspaper reporters. I know they're up against it. I don't like what they do, but I know they are not out to "get" America. The corporate media giants, however...well, that's another story.

[OneGrassRoot]

25. I am speaking of the corporate media giants :)

I agree. :)

I recall back in 1998, I witnessed this for the first time (as far as foot soldiers and what you describe being "passed down").

I saw a national interview -- don't recall about what now -- but the way it was relayed, repeatedly, on the local news and in other outlets was VASTLY different from what I had witnessed. Night and day.

I knew then I couldn't trust what was being said -- and not because the foot soldiers were intentionally lying and misinforming, but they were simply doing as they were told.

I do wonder...when will many of them say enough is enough? I would think at this point in time a squeaky wheel could get some attention -- even if it is fueled by ambition rather than altruism - if they buck the system, with the blogosphere there to back them up. That takes a lot of courage though.

Interesting....

[get the red out]

26. I don't either

I think if the local guys had MORE resources we wouldn't be in the mess we are currently in. During the rise of the big media they have been gradually starved, funny how that works. Everyone getting a big dose of the same stuff from the same big outlets.

[Blue_Roses]

32. bingo

well said:D

[mother earth]

27. Of course, we can be loving and respectful, the worrisome

trend that I see is the lightbearers are accepting and feeling it's necessary to go with the flow on very, very wrong directions we are headed in. This is the problem I am having in finding a balance btwn what I see happening and our ability to end it, by utilizing our godliness, our power, our inner conscious that tells us something is very wrong and acting on it.

GardeningGal just posted Matthew's message, never mind the source, but the sentiment is what I find very apropos, even if you don't believe in channeling,

--"The dark minds behind this seemingly inexplicable agony claim that war will be “justice for those who died.” But the war is intended to create even greater negativity in an attempt to extinguish all light on the planet. The perpetrators want you to feel fear and hatred and demand “justice” because they know that only by continuing their cycle of violence can they keep their pernicious hold in this critical time of souls choosing between the light and the darkness. Choose you must, and choose the LIGHT you must!

33. What happened is not a nation against another nation. It is not even a tiny faction of humankind against all other humankind. The root of this madness is a malignant power that most of you don’t know exists, but its intentions are so malevolent that Earth herself is weeping. This truth will be revealed in time, but for now, please hold only healing love in your hearts for all life. Let the god self in each of you sustain your light so your conscious self won’t align with the darkness that wants retaliation, revenge, hatred, more cold-hearted killing.

34. Let the thousands of lives that left Earth in those fiery moments stand for something besides what the dark ones want. As a collective voice, these recently departed souls are saying:

“Let no more lives be taken. This is the time to keep love above all, for compassion, for bringing healing to the bereaved and injured, for bringing healing to Earth. Please know that the hearts that are hardened into wanting to kill others as their tribute to us, they need light above all. We petition you from the whole of this realm of Heaven to speak of love, of opening eyes to seeing clearly what is happening on Earth, and rising above the tragedy that has been perpetrated by a darkness you cannot even imagine, where your entire world is expendable. We see this from here. We need you to help the myriad light workers by uplifting your hearts and allowing light to come in, by comforting those in fresh sorrow. You must hear our plea. We are working in the light to assist you, and we are forever bonded with you in love.” -

And when you couple the war that rages on and has actually grown in stages and where it plays out, then add those who will be dying from the health care that is actually legalized death care or rationing, add the increased poverty, the lack of accountability to the criminals, well it's all a bit much to witness the masses still holding onto belief in Obama...the handwriting is on the wall, even if you believe he's forced to adopt TPTB's agenda.

Isn't it time to join them in GD, rather than walk away or ignore. Maybe if there's a better way, maybe those in the know need to set an example and do so lovingly and respectfully if that's your choice, even when you see rage and confusion.

I feel like it's time to breakaway from the peacefulness here and get to work OUT there....no more hiding, bring your "peace", or just plain say and acknowledge that it's wrong. Because it is, we are on a ride that's not stopping.

I have grown to like so many of you, with only reading your words. Bring your words to GD, that's where it's needed, stop hiding out. If you have love to share, share it, if you have light, share it, if you are angry, whatever it is...this is the time for healing and for awakening, don't look the other way because it's safer.

Ok, down from my soap box. If you can be respectful and loving, share it, we aren't above anything here, we are part of it...this is a hiding place now, you need to shine at DU, the fire is calling you there.

[u4ic]

28. I agree

Though I think when we are overburdened, we may need to step back, for our own good, and do what we need to do for ourselves. That could just mean focusing on our own lives, day to day, to recover. Then, when we have our reserves up and feel stronger, and wish to do so, fight the good fight.

It can be a burden when you see through the lies and deceptions and repressions imposed on us. So many of us want to do something - but what??? when we feel powerless. Over the course of decades, we've lost our power because we've lost our solidarity. There is strength in numbers, and the powers that be know that. We've gone from unions to union busting, from helping each other to 'every man for himself'.

I'm not an American, but I think that the Democratic party is too big an umbrella. It doesn't necessarily mean they are all progressives. And while I think debate is good - do we want to be sheeple and not question, or converse? - it can get much when people, in their frustrations, take their anger out on others. Doing so on the net is all too common.

Do what you need to do, and take care of yourself. :hug:

[Lindsey]

29. I also am spending my DU time here and in the Obama

support group. I mean WTF? You've got Bush/Cheney who completely ignored Clinton's warning that Al Queda was the greatest threat and them ignoring the Presidential Daily Briefing ("Bin Laden Determined to attack America"), starting TWO wars, being responsible for leaking Valerie Plame's identity, Katrina, and I could go on and on and on. And whoever these people are are actually complaining about President Obama? It really freaks me out....I think disruptors have taken over DU and no one is doing anything about it!

[northernlights]

30. many people see Obama continuing Bush's policies

and even strengthening them, instead of ending them.

Obama is winding down the war in Iraq, it is true. And increasing it in Afghanistan and setting us up for involvement in S. America agains Chavez. And one small set of people -- the soldiers and their families -- are forced to pay the full price while the rest of us can look away and go on with our lives.

Obama outlawed torture, that is also true. And is continuing rendition, which allows people to be scooped up off the street and 'disappeared' to another country, where others do our torturing for us, out of sight and supposedly off our conscience or our karma.

Obama is continuing the Patriot Act and spying on ordinary citizens.

And he did a complete about face on health care, from Single Payer is the answer to barring Single Payer from the negotiating table.

Copenhagen is now Copenfailure...instead of Kyoto being strengthened, it has been undone. The wealthy countries have instead voluntarily agreed to hold the climate to a 2 degree rise. :wtf: Have TPTB so succombed to their delusions of being "Masters of the Universe" that they honestly think they can will the earth's climate to a 2 degree limit? Or do they think we are so stupid and overwhelmed by their "superiority" that we believe they have that much power?

It may be that TPTB are holding a gun to Obama's head. Or maybe they learned from their earlier assassinations that creating a martyr is a bad thing, so they're holding guns to his children's heads. Or maybe he's been drugged into compliance. Or maybe the evil energies that Matthew refer to have overwhelmed him.

Regardless of how it is, he does need our light shone onto and into him...

But

[liberalmuse]

33. The Obama supporters are still here.

I was a bit disillusioned earlier this week (and that's an understatement), but that being said, even though I will not always be happy with some of President Obama's choices, I will not withdraw my mental, spiritual and physical support of this man. He has so much to do and he is doing the best he knows how in his way. I knew who I was voting for when I voted for our President, and he has stayed true to that. Whether I deem it good, bad or short of what I'd like to see as a very left skewing liberal, I knew what we were getting. I'm actually sickened at the venom with which some are attacking him on DU. It's not the DU I remember, either. This used to be a haven from that stuff, for the most part. Now it's like more and more people are crapping in our nest. :(

[get the red out]

35. +1

I get sick to my stomach at the thought of GD now, have added the "Barack Obama" group to my groups; actual discussion without the vile negativity can happen there. I have had enough with rage. I am so grateful for the groups on DU, it seems the people that don't want to engage in the hate energy are retreating to various groups. Not everyone who has valued this web site wants to wade through hateful crap all day as a matter of course.

[WhiteTara]

36. well, in my humble opinion

we moved from the worst admin in the country's history and moved to someone we thought would "solve" all the problems. So instead of having one group we can collectively hate, we now are divided on whether to hate our hope...blah blah blah

[katty]

37. concur-it is exhausting the GD-grates on my nerves